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@Leo Gura Is unawareness also imagined? What about forgetfullness? What makes the need for consistency and coherency so important for general experience? When you fall asleep you generally realize you will wake up in the same body. I've never done any psychedelic's but what if you had an incoherent trip which you couldn't make sense of. Usually when you have a fever dream you become lucid during the dream and realize its inconsistency followed by your awareness of your persona in ordinary life. When you are accessing alien consciousness do you still remember leo during the trip?

It’s amazing how fast some of you guys are assuming you already understand alien intelligence.

@Leo Gura Is there such a thing as "deep sleep" in your psychadellic trips? Whats the difference between void or stillness and manifestation / noise when you are accessing alien conciousness. From what it sounds like, sounds like ordinary human conciousness is like plucking a few strings on a guitar and alien consciousness is like having access to many more and different variations.

If I understand you correctly, that experience of the brilliant design of Reality brings you joy, beauty and love. The Good, True and Beautiful. Love, Understanding and Beauty. These experiences have motivated humanity since the beginning. At least a part of it ( : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendentals I can understand you here very well. I feel the same. Yet... if you mainly feel this love when having a beautiful understanding or insight into Reality, or God, Alien-Mind, whatever, then you don't have these experiences that open your heart on a permanent constant basis in everday life. And that is exactly the problem, which makes that approach to a high level Atman-Project. If you need these experience of understanding (the True of the triple Good,True and Beautiful) to get the love that is at the core of your True Being, then its something you don't have all the time. That love would also flow fully when you rest in your True Nature without a separate self blocking the flow of this love. Resting in your True Being in everyday life brings you this. It really does. The source of this love is your True Being, when the flow is not interrupted by any filter, lense of perception, localized center or separate self. After writing something tending a bit on the touchy side, I really hesitate to conclude with Selling water by the River. But it needs to be done, to not loose the humour inherent of this great illusion of ours: Selling water by the river, today including the fragrency of the Transcendetals "Truth, Beauty and Goodness"

Great. But intended for me or not, you are still downplaying what Alien Consciousness could potentially mean.

Sorry, my paragraph you refer to (below) was not intended for you. It was a general statement concerning the goal of maximum exploration/understanding of form/manifestation mechanism: "And my only humble suggestion is: Before you go running exploring that which you can never finish [understanding as much as possible of an infinite reality] in this lifetime: Why not look deeply into the abyss of your own true being (which contains all form, but never is form, getting to the point where there is so much no center that all perceptions see themselves), learn to keep that ongoing in daily life, and be happy and in bliss, and go exploring these Alien-Minds then?" Sorry that this wasn't clear. And great that you are generally very happy!

You’re not saying it’s not worth it. And that’s good. But you are in subtle ways downplaying the value of such an insight. My prediction is that if you actually experienced Alien Consciousness, your fucking head would explode. And you’d never be able to say that such a thing was just a “fascinating show” or just “another form”. It would change your entire life AND your entire understanding of spirituality. Why are you assuming that I haven’t done that already? Or that I’m not happy already? I’m legitimately one of the happiest people I know. My life is amazing. I almost feel guilty at times for how good it is. Yes, seeking comes with a certain amount of “incompleteness”. This is not a mistake. I enjoy seeking. Do not denigrate the seeking impulse. That is a monster trap. The best possible option is actually that our understanding of God and spirituality is continuing to evolve. This is more exciting. This is cutting edge.

@Leo Gura Are you familiar with Andrew Gallimore an his Alien Information Theory? Maybe you could be interest it in looking it. Here is an extract of the technology that Andrew Gallimore and Rick Strassman want to create: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKfgcdtOfVY&t=62s

I think this is the core of the conflict between you and other teachers. To most teachers, living from a place of high consciousness is more important than simply reaching extremely high states. And more important than just understanding is bringing it down to earth to help awaken others and raise the consciousness of humanity. In the future, if humans evolve in the right way, the alien consciousness you talk about could be someone's daily baseline. But we have to get there first.

Imagine when all perspectives/beings of the Absolute are switched off. Nothing or totally infinite. Something like Deep-Sleep for all perspectives/beings. "It" would initially unaware of itself, but with the potential for sentience. Then a water-pistol is being imagined. Because is in the Nature of the Infinite to imagine form. Or a planet. Et voila, you have appearance, duality, form, and self-awareness. Very nicely described by the way in Benthino Massaros in "Spiritual Conversations with a Skeptic: On God Consciousness and The Absolute". Whatever you may think about the guy, the book is nice. Then imagine that this orginally unaware infinity forgets all other perspectives/beings "in space". Only "your" perspective is known in your case. You know whats forgetting in time is (what did you do exactly one year ago, for example), so something like that is also possible in space. You are just not aware of them right now. Check this picture, and notice the non-euclidian-space: Infinite perspectives. In this non-euclidian space, infinite perspectives fit in. You see only one of these perspectives, but Leavitt has had this vision with seeing an infinite amount in non-euclidian space. And the crazy thing is: You think (I assume at least : ) that you are located somewhere, head or body. But these arisings that feel like this being-locatedness can completely drop away, if you are able to spot them fast enough, and are familiar with them. Awareness has no location. You can never ever find it. The appearance bubble of each perspective/being is self-aware, perceptions perceiving themselves. Potentially as mere appearance, but with Karma/ignorance rock solid material/out there. But it CAN be seen as mere appearance. And once its not solid anymore one time, its proven that the solidity has only been fake appearance, never really has been like that, just appeared. That solidity is optional, if so imagined. But when you remove all these separation and being-located-feeling-arisings: The structure of your perspective reveals itself (perceptions perceiving itself, no center/awareness-location anywhere). Any maybe you can imagine that these appearances can become infinitely complex. But they are the real You, arising in you, as you, perceiving itself. And in that way the awareness of the abyss of awareness that you are (you can never define it, find it, measure it: INFINITE. Not finite). And you are also all appearances, nondual and infinite style. And if you switch it all off, all appearances/perspectives off, in all perspectives that you imagine in parallel and forget, you are back to square one. And that is the infinitely simple core of you: An Absolute Reality initially unaware of itself, but with the potential for sentience as soon as something shows up, in any perspective. And its not located in 3D-Space. 3D-Space is imagined in you, as object. And you can't go anywhere, can't disappear, can't die. You can only imagine to do so ( : And fully understanding the structure of you own perspective (the appearances of the visual field as mere appearance, insubstantial hologram-like (Yoga of One Taste), the whole perspective being infinite because 3D-space is also something imagined in you, and especially not believing ANY separate self-arisings arising in you (which needs a lot of practice to spot them fast enough, and see them arising and moving in you as objects), then you get and understand is what this perspective of yours is. And that awarness has radically no location. That awareness is really radically no-thing. Yet Awareness happens, perceptions perceiving themself. No lense of perception remains.It feels like the whole field is self-aware, perceptions perceiving themselves. But the field can imagine any kind of identity, location or lense, or ideas about itself. Then imagine there are no appearances, all switched off: The infinite Reality, initially unaware of itself, but potentially aware with sentience as soon as a appearance shows up. And this insight is valid for all perspectives, since any real boundary between perspectives would be just an arising, nothing solid, and not the Infinite Awareness. So it is understood that these insights must be valid for all perspectives/beings. But of course, people way smarter and wiser just would say: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop! Or the One Hand claps. As always, selling water by the River that is you. Bon voyage. PS: Maybe you can find a few Alien Godmind in the non-euclidian space of perspectives in the picture. For sure a fun ride...

I agree. Ego-Loss and Presence is not final Enlightenment. Ego-Loss and Presence would be Roger Thisdells stage 3 and 4, a more or less transparent Witness, and that can include Nonduality and Unity-states. Not his stage 5, True No-Self, or final Enlightenment. His videos are on Youtube, see my previous posts. At the end, when only the individuality-feeling of the Transparent Witness remains, and even that is seen as moving in the True You or Reality/Infinite Consciousness itself, among with all other mere appearances of the Visual Field, then there is insight into the Ultimate Nature of Reality and your True Self. Not before. That is called Great Enlightenment in Zen, or Basis Enlightenment in Mahamudra. All small Enlightenments before are called Kenshos or smaller Satoris (Nonduality, Unity, certain Ego-losses). But the final and total drop of the separate self arisings is the Great Enlightenment, the insight into the nature of Existence/Reality and the real You. Version 1, Peter Ralston: Peter Ralston: "So you know enlightenment is you yourself becoming conscious of what's true, directly conscious of what's true, like what you are or what existence is, no more than that". Version 2, The Supreme Source, God-Realization Dzogchen-style: My intuition is with the importance you lay on God-Realization: Never stop short - on which I fully agree. Thats the worst mistake one can do - stop short in understand what You and Ultimate Reality really are. I really agree on that. Apparently, understanding that everything is just appearance arising in the True You, Reality itself, and what that True You and Ultimate Reality are, is paramount. But why aim for understanding all of the endless/infinite perspectives (Alien Minds, whatever...) that work together to give rise to all these appearances, when by definition its infinite and endless (n+1) and never can be fully understood, and call that God-Realization, and give it a higher meaning than the Full Classic Enlightenment? Isn't Ultimate Reality the final Godhead? Infinite other dimensions run and understood by other Alien Godminds? Aren't these other realms not just... more appearances arising in Ultimate Reality? Why place more importance on these insights, which by definition can never be complete, than on the understanding of the "wetness" of each wave of appearances in the ocean of Ultimate Reality? Which by the way, is the definition of final Enlightenment (or Great Enlightenment in Zen, see Kapleau three pillars. Not the preliminary ones, Kenshos and smaller Satoris, which show Nonduality and various other facets). But the real thing, like Ralston said, what Reality is and what You really are. Why not get the wetness and bliss of the ocean in your everyday-life, and then go exploring the Alien Godminds? Or do you aim for that with exploring the Alien Godminds? As always: Review the perspectives, and if one doesn't like the kind of water that is being sold here at the river, look deeply into yourself if you are not already the river... ( : He who knows the well doesn't drink out of the jar. And doesn't angry on other jars. PS: And besides, in exploring these Alien-Godminds, I think you are doing an awesome pioneering job, stuff for the history books in the future. What would really delight me is if you find within yourself a place living from which brings you a radiating bliss and love in your everyday life 24/7, and freedom from psychological suffering. All the best and bon voyage!

No Leo I stuck Datura up my butt for breakfast I know exactly what alien consciousness is in fact I am the alien that has been haunting your dreams with this alien consciousness that you speak of checkmate atheists.

Yeah, well said. There is no higher than becoming the ocean. This does not mean that you understand all its structures, you can also dive into it and try to understand it as much as possible if you want. but AWAKENING is the first, the second is to go deep and it has no limit. you can become the alien that so smart, and that there is another alien millions of times superior, and then another billions times smarter

Maybe you can't reach your head around this because it is a true what you write? Godhead could be defined as Reality itself "seen/been" from a perspective/being where no arisings/form happen (Nirvikalpa, Deep Sleep, 5 MeO,....). Understanding the true nature of Reality when form arises as appearances in You contains a deep understanding of the nature of the Godhead also (when it is deep enough, with zero separate self identities still being believed, not believed as subject but seen arising as objects). And the Alien Understanding is then understanding about the structure of these/certain structures arising in reality, even if its pretty subtle and pretty formless. With enough training, you can see these understandings arise and moving in the Reality that you are, being elaborated into further understandings later. Reality/Consciousness does all this understanding of the different perspectives/beings. As always, review the perspectives and draw your own conclusions, and choose the perspective with which you resonate most deeply. And more specific: Are you happy when you fully understand the wetness of the (infinite) ocean and understand and become the wetness of the ocean, or do you need to understand the structure of every wave of certain sub-fractal, for example "low-pressure-vortex-area/Alien God-Mind" in an infinitely large ocean?

9 hours ago, Water by the River said: Whatever the meaning or Referent of this concept/word is , it would just be more form. Even if its a very subtle appearance or formless understanding. Just more arisings. @Aurum: Luckily, we did get a timely answer: Alien FORMS of consciousness and intelligence. I fully believe Leo that he experienced this, and its fascinating stuff. For sure, there are those perspectives/intelligences creating and keeping the game running. That is the stuff that humanity will probably focus on the explore in the next 1000 years and beyond, if not a mishappen asteroid or so comes along.... So Leo is a pioneer of the highest degree, for sure. And maybe after 1000 years we will play the UFOs on some other planets or dimensions, or create our own little dimensions or whatever, and appear as these Alien intelligences. Who knows? But lets say reality is really infinite (as pretty much everbody and most spiritual texts agree on): Its infinite turtles all the way up. N+1. You never reach the top. If you understood that Alien Universe-Creator/Manager, you can go understood his "boss". And the next. And so on, forever. So form doesn't stop. And the content of every perspective, of the alien forms of consciousness and intelligence, are by definition form. It is all arisings. So it is an infinity "upwards", see Leos Video on Infinity Part 2, Cantors Set Theory. It will never stop. No reason not to explore, if you have fun doing it. I am curious for which shows are ongoing, for sure.The one Absolute Subject watching all of that, Reality itself or You, doesnt have form. It would limit Reality. This realization is the core of classic Enlightenment. And knowing the Absolute of Reality is knowing the infinite Abyss of Consciousness: It is not form. "It" is the only "thing" (I know...) that is not form, neither subtle or not. It is the Real You (not the separate self arisings in you). It is Reality itself. If no arisings happen in your perspective it is Nirvikalpa or Deep Sleep, if arisings happen in you perspective, it's perceptions perceiving themselves. With or without a separate self-arising going on. That is by the way the structure of all perspectives/beings being imagined by Ultimate Reality. Any Identity/I-feeling-arising is form. Any understanding is an appearance. Why? Its not permanent. It comes and goes. Its not you. It arises in you. And my only humble suggestion is: Before you go running exploring that which you can never finish in this lifetime: Why not look deeply into the abyss of your own true being (which contains all form, but never is form, getting to the point where there is so much no center that all perceptions see themselves), learn to keep that ongoing in daily life, and be happy and in bliss, and go exploring these Alien-Minds then? Why go exploring on an endless journey with so much urgency while still not being happy, because a separate self still creates dis-satisfaction (which by definition it does to keep the game/illusion going). How would you call a game that keeps you dissatiesfied searching for the highest form of Alien Intelligence, when there are an infinite number of them out there, chasing your own tail? What is it that keeps the whole illusion running? The separate self at its core has to generate dis-satisfation, to keep some activity going on. Not that it winds down and one actually looks into the absolutely formless abyss of ones own Being and Reality, sees the separate self building blocks arising as those elements that cause the dis-satisfaction in the first place, and lives happily ever after. Would be bad for the show if everybody did that. Luckily, that risk will not arise soon. Especially since we see here a new and creative form of that activity of chasing your own tail, so to say the highest evolved version of that until now, in some sense really the cutting edge of that aspect of humanity. And please nobody say that I am saying it is not worth exploring the Alien Superminds. That is part of the fascinating show. My only suggestion would be to do it in a way that makes you honestly happy and loving. And for that I would recommend you buying a bottle of water at the river saying: "Look deeply into your being, and check what reality is, what you are, if that makes you happy and loving or not, and check if its maybe already water. From the river". As always: Review the perspectives and draw your own conclusion on what resonates within you. And think about if you want to be happy/loving while resting in your True Nature and then go exploring the Alien-Whatevers of the Multiverse, or go on that trip with a separate self very well intact, causing regularly returning dissatisfaction & unloving, and having from time to time some great highs in merging and understanding those Alien-Godminds.

What I can't reach my head around, is this.. Even If I can reach this Alien understanding, how can this beat the understanding of the Godhead? Shouldn't god be the ultimate understanding and even the highest Alien consciousness only a small fractal of gods understanding?

So at the end you got some moments of omniscience and a lot of frustration for be trapped in the human device. anyway, if it's possible go further it's normal to go. But for me it's enough with solving the human maze and be limitless all time. Why do you need to know the structure of reality? Helps you to be infinite? I think you are confusing quantity with quality . But maybe you are right, too soon to know And maybe one day one of those aliens comes and tell you: do you think you are awake? Poor ant...you ve not a clue of what awakening is Anyway, alien or not, a course about how to optimize the use of psychedelics from a professional as you is very interesting

Alien Consciousness has touches of Omniscience to it. The more conscious you become the closer to Omniscience you get. A human can seem omniscient from the POV of an ant. Psychedelics can take you very far if you use them properly. Which is what my new course will teach people how to do. But yes, we are all limited by our genetics in the end. How could it be otherwise? Still, you have not nearly tapped the full potential of what your genetics allow.

How does this relate to Omniscience? You distinguish Omniscience from Alien Consciousness. Yet it seems like you hold them both as the pinnacle of awakening. It would seem to follow that even mega doses of psychedelics may not be enough to comprehend reality at the level. We may just be limited by our own brains. Although you were able to do it for a short time, so it’s at least possible.

Correct. When consciousness reaches levels beyond human -- way beyond nonduality, Buddhism, and even most psychedelic trips -- it transforms into alien forms of consciousness and intelligence. All human spirituality is just that -- human. It is not the same as an advanced alien mind. Surely you understand that there exist aliens in the universe with brains 100x larger and smarter than yours. The most enlightened human is like an ant next to that level of consciousness. Now ask yourself, how would it feel to stop being human and become that alien? What would that kind of intelligence/mind feel like? Well, what I am telling you is that I know, because I have directly become it. And I can tell you that it turns all human spiritual understanding to shame. No human on this planet is that conscious. I cannot maintain such a level of consciousness for long, but at least I know that it exists and what it is like. It is utterly radical and nonhuman. That's a lot closer to the kind of intelligence that designed reality. Human intelligence is incapable to comprending reality's design. Your genetics and brain are too limited. Even if you were born very spiritually gifted. Remember, humans are just ants in the grand scheme of thing. The only reason humans act like the ultimate is because no one is around to put us to shame. Human intelligence is infinitesimally small. Imagine what it's like to be an ant relative to a human. Then imagine what it would be like to be an advanced alien relative to a human. Your mind would be so advanced you would experience reality in a completely new way. This goes way beyond merely not having ego. Ego and egolessness are just a small part of your consciousness and your life. Even if you lose all ego, your experience of reality will still be extremely limited and basic. Your understanding will still be very low. Ego loss and presence is not what this work is truly about. That is a minor matter in the end. There are much larger issues at stake. You cannot comprehend GOD merely by losing your ego or being very present. This is the core mistake of Buddhism. They confuse such things with CONSCIOUSNESS. But those are very narrow aspects of CONSCIOUSNESS.

You don’t know that. You don’t know what Leo means by Alien Consciousness. And neither do I. But I don’t think Leo is making such an obvious error. Alternatively, if it just “more form”, then it’s clear he thinks it’s a highly relevant form. And maybe there’s good reason for that. My point is we just don’t know. Let’s have a little bit of faith in Leo. He obviously feels it is important.

Actually I think the idea fails. Where did the alien come from? At some point, the answer has to be pure Infinity. Fair enough. I don’t think at this point we are supposed to understand Alien Consciousness or understand why Leo thinks it matters. Obviously that would come with more experience. My point is simply that I’m open to it. If Leo thinks it matters, then I trust his opinion on this at least enough to investigate. I think he has earned that. If he is wrong, then that should also become clear.

It would be cool though, wouldn't it? Lol. I genuinely would enjoy that to be the case. I am also sure he is aware of the fundamental nature of reality, but see I just don't think anything other than that is relevant. Leo discussed infinity in the "other direction". That is why I stopped using DMT because it felt like I could go off down those rabbitholes, but as overwhelming as the states are, and as pathetic as I feel in comparison to the magnitude of the power of these twisted realms, it seems ultimately irrelevant. Smoking Salvia is very alien consciousness, you can't even coinceive that such a thing is possible. DMT can get even worse, especially if you take SSRIs, because you won't get a breakthrough at levels where you should, and instead be left in the most twisted nightmareish state of pure incomprehensible fuckedness. Realistically these drugs can rape you far beyond humanity. I'm not sure any of it ultimately matters though.

@aurum "If by alien supermind you are referring to Leo’s latest insights about Alien Consciousness, I would say we have no idea yet what Leo even means by this. " Whatever the meaning or Referent of this concept/word is , it would just be more form. Even if its a very subtle appearance or formless understanding. Just more arisings. What is it that is aware of all of that? And what happens with that in Deep Sleep? What is that Nothingness that can be unaware of itself if nothing appears, but has the innate potential for sentience? That which can never not be? If that understanding manifests in your mindstream and daily everday-life, I would be interested in how happy and blissful you are on a permanent basis. And how much you would still grasp about the Alien... But then you would probably anyway go looking about this interesting Alien Supermind, but with a big smile on your face. When such a show comes into town.... I would go looking.... ( : PS: I am really curious what kind of stuff will be dragged in from the Multiverse into our little comfy imagined reality in the next decades... Hopefully nothing that is too hungry for some poor souls... ( : But hey, if you look into history, they dragged quite some weird and hungry stuff from god knows which dimensions.... many of the first contactees could later be visited in insane asylums.

That’s true. But I’m pretty sure a marble being played with by a physical alien is not literally what Leo is referring to. Men In Black is obviously a movie. It’s not going to be equivalent to whatever Leo is talking about. You can argue that Alien Consciousness must be irrelevant because it must be preceded by Presence, but I don’t think Leo is overlooking this point. I’m going to give him more credit than that. That would be a very newbie mistake to make.