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Go watch Leo's video on the Ox. Nonduality will go full circle. You realize all is an illusion, then integrate back in to the illusion and enjoy it. You created all this for a reason; to experience it.

I'm seeking some perspectives on how to transcend stage Yellow if your personality is biased towards individuality. As a kid, I worshipped stage Red in the form of heroes like Superman and King Arthur, but my military family was die-hard stage Blue at the time, and I was largely indoctrinated into this for much of my childhood. Strong streaks of independence, intellectualism, skepticism, and rebelliousness have always been part of me, though, and after I left home and started college, I consciously left Blue behind for a rationalist, scientific, atheist perspective. STEM and Ayn Rand and psychology 101 and Kant and others put me in Orange territory, where I remained until a couple years ago. This transition was "easy" in a way because it appealed to individualist aspects of my personality that originated in my worship of Red as a young child, and because I understood Blue so well, it was easy to leave it behind in the transition back to an individual perspective of competitiveness, meritocracy, and materialism. Then I went to business school for my MBA, which ironically wasn't full of Orange people but full of Green people. Intense Green was everywhere, and I was forced to confront it for two years. I was pulled along kicking and screaming--the collective/emotional view was hard to accept, especially given my personal biases. But something kind of strange happened. I never "was" Green. As I finally came to understand Green, I became Yellow. It was as if the lack of understanding Green was holding me back from a transition I had already been pushing towards, and once resolved, Yellow became obvious. I saw the nuance. I saw the integrated systems functioning together. I realized that perspective was crucial to the big-picture. Yellow's more impersonal big-picture understanding is so natural to me, and yet still grounded in some degree of individuality while embodying growth and learning for its own sake. Having now discovered Spiral Dynamics and nonduality, I question how to continue my growth. Turquoise people are rare indeed, so it's hard to surround yourself with them. Combined with my personal difficulty of truly identifying with a collective perspective, I feel this level will be much harder to achieve FOR ME. I continue to pursue enlightenment itself, though I think that will take time and effort over months or years to make meaningful progress towards. I wonder if, similar to Green, understanding Turquoise could eventually facilitate a transition to Coral if I can achieve awakening/liberation in the process. I would love to hear your thoughts.

Same for me... I'm at Diamond Heart Book 5 now and every chapter changes something deeply for me. So many good books he wrote. There is nobody I know with so much complexity, precision and depth. I love this guy. I think it has largely to do with his logos being so challengingly big. Only after getting through quite a few books of his is the impact starting to reveal itself. There are these discussions between Rupert Spira and Almaas on YouTube (from Science and Nonduality), you know those? Almost nobody there understands what he's pointing to. Took me a while to understand his points, and they come from yeeeears of deep digging. I think that's why he's not so easily accessible. Requires a lot of studying.

Even "not two" is a concept. Everything we post here are concepts. As nonduality teacher Ramesh Balsekar said, something like: Whatever any spiritual teacher or guru has said at any time, whatever any teaching has said ever, is a concept.

@Anderz Yeah, I agree, seems to be the case everywhere. Nonduality is the pointing of ‘not two’ though. It is not a suggestion of one, or a oneness of reality, etc. Thus nonduality can not be a concept. Reality, would be the concept.

@Nahm I certainly include myself in nonduality. Probably science will move towards nonduality, because reality is one, not two or more. Because if reality had two or more parts, then those parts are included in the one reality, or they would be separate realities.

@Anderz Nonduality as a pointing is ‘not two’. You and concept would be two, no? Do you suppose the scientists are including ‘themselves’, or maybe that what they’re sharing is only conceptual?

@Nahm Nonduality is a word, so it's a concept. Nonduality teachers often talk about how all of reality can only be described through concepts and pointers. Leo has mentioned that too. @Forestluv The graph is also a concept. But there is a difference. The graph can (potentially) model how reality works. At first one can imagine that a graph can represent reality. Then the next step is to examine if such model can describe reality better than the current models in science and spirituality.

I think I hear ya on the pointer, but how is nonduality a concept? Is that a “spiritual idea” in your opinion?

@Nahm Nonduality is a concept, but it can also be called a pointer. And the Wolfram team needs to be careful to follow traditional science as much as possible or few people will take them seriously, so even if they have spiritual ideas that's probably not something they will add to their model, at least not yet. (With the disclaimer that I haven't read the entire 400+ pages paper about the project.)

@Anderz Reminds me of Sean Carrol. It’s as if since one is a scientist they are inherently separate from the no thing. “Mind” boggling how this can be missed at such a no-proximity-left ‘range’, isn’t it? Also curious, are you saying nonduality is a concept, or are you saying the team of hardcore scientists are?

@Nahm Wolfram only said that the graph isn't made of anything. That the graph is all Mind is something I made up. But it makes sense from a nondual perspective. Wolfram and his team are hardcore scientists, I haven't heard them talking about nonduality or other spiritual concepts. Although one commenter mentioned Indra's net which I found fascinating.

@Member According to my view all past choices are information in the now. And only that! So it's a kind of illusion of a past separate from the now. But that contradicts our experience of free will, at least in ordinary consciousness. Many nonduality teachers talk about how there is no choice. Some of the most hardcore nonduality teachers, such as Tony Parsons and Jim Newman even say that nothing ever happens. My own experience is that I have free will, and that I have made choices in the past. But logic tells me that it's more likely that I don't have actual free will and that the past is only now. So I need more practical experience before I know with more certainty whether my theory is real or not.

@Galyna Would you be open to having a Skype call one of these days? I've had my share of awakenings and can point you in the right direction and answer your questions with no judgement. Of course, my answers are a very literal interpretation of non-duality. However, I think they would still be helpful in getting you over the hump you seem to be on in regards to understanding what oneness, nonduality, non-materialism and objectivity are. The invitation is there, just DM me.

@Artsu It says in the Bible that Jesus is the Word made flesh. That to me means a physical human being. But Jesus also said that he and the Father are one, so Christ to me means all of manifested reality, while Jesus the man represents the whole Word as a person. And Christ consciousness is the same as self-realization or what it's called in nonduality. But something that puzzled me right now is that if the Father is the unmanifested and infinite Word, and the Son is the manifested Word, then what is the Holy Spirit?! It's a Holy Trinity and I have heard that the idea of a trinity exists in other religions too. Then I came up with the idea that the Holy Spirit means consciousness! Consciousness is an undivided whole, and holy as in Holy Spirit means whole. And Spirit means that it's not something material nor something unmanifested. And consciousness is truly timeless in the sense that consciousness is always the immovable witnessing/experiencing in the now.

@Artsu I interpret Christ as being the only begotten son since there is only one Word of God. I don't even know whether Jesus actually existed as a historical person or not. But what Jesus said seems like true knowledge to me, although in metaphors and parables, such as Jesus saying: In the beginning the Word and God are the same thing and all there is, but then the Word became manifest in the form of Christ and this it the beginning of creation so of course Christ is before Abraham was born. On the other hand, as it says in John 1, the Word has created everything, including us, so we and Christ are the same Word unfolding. I read that in Christianity the Body of Christ means the churchgoers. But that seems too limiting to me. The Body of Christ I think means all of humanity in Christ consciousness. The Bible is ultimately about nonduality it seems, just like all other major religions. And in nonduality all time is always now, even the beginning of time is now. So the Word made manifest happened now. It's a real mind twister but it makes logical sense to me.

Because why? Covered pretty well by Christianity no? Even if he's not a fictional character written for a book to control people, which is debatable, he'd still be a imagination character of God (you). Nonduality is about waking up that you are God and imagined everything.

You're spreading "misinformation" here like wildfire, yourself. There isn't anyone there to die, before "it" or not! He's trying to point to letting go of the beliefs, and sometimes around here we hold on to the belief of letting go like the last string keeping us from plunging over the cliff. We're all standing around made uncomfortable by watching this charade. Jokes on us. There's no VeganAwake. You're holding him as what he is in your imagination. You're doing this to him. You're suffering in place of him. Your image of him is you. What are we trying to hold up? What? If you suspend someone for posting while intoxicated that's a good reason. Spreading misinformation on a nonduality forum with the assumption that there's truly correct information, doesn't hold up.

So Leo, what is your opinion then on the future of AI? Is it "impossible" to generate artificial consciousness? It is very easy to create organic life, and there seems to be no "limitation" on organic production, so why would God limit our ability to bestow consciousness on machine life? If the brain channels infinite consciousness into finite consciousness, shouldn't an artificial brain be capable of doing the same thing? If not, why? If so, what does that imply? (ie. IF conscious AI can be built, does that invalidate all of nonduality? It would experience Being with no self, and yet be finite and limited) It feels like a wrench in the system, but I would love to hear more on this.

So today i had a very interesting meditation experience. First of all i haven’t been meditating for almost a year now because of various reasons. But i have meditated and contemplated in the past a lot. So i think i have a pretty good understanding of nonduality. Also i had my first awakening experience about three months ago while tripping on mushroms. But thats another story. Basically just today i decided i really want to start meditating again. I created a to do list for 100 days of meditation. After that i sat down and started meditating and not even 10minutes have passed when my consciousness started shifting in a very way it wasn't like anything i have ever experienced during meditation. I started to feel this presure on my eyes and then everything started to feel much more lucid. Suddenly i wasn't simply aware of the things in front of me but all consciousness around me. It is kind of difficult to explain but yeah... And then i started getting excited and it faded. i think this was a slight taste of nonduality through meditation. But I never thought your state of consciousness could shift in such auto clicker a significant way just by meditating. Very crazy I also find it very interesting that i had the strongest experience through meditation after more than a year with no meditation and basically no conscious lifestyle. I think this might me because when i meditated daily amd contemplated constantly i always wanted this awakening soo bad but this was probably the biggest obastacle to it. Anyways i just wanted to share this experience i had with yall.

@Red-White-Light Actually, I am proposing a bridge between solipsism and classic nonduality, and you're completely missing my point.

@Inliytened1 am I aware? . You are aware obviously you know that for certain. But am I aware? Yes or no? If no that's solipsism. If yes.. Please explain to me what is nonduality if there's more than one focal point of awareness in the universe or separate individual awarenesses?

@Sandy6 I had OCD manifest in very similar ways such as you did, I also grew up in a religious home. Mine was "promise your soul to the devil". Carl Jung had this vision of God pooping on a church steeply, and had great relief when he allowed himself to have the vision and let it go. The OCD you experience is like an inner voice that forces you to destroy your ideas of right and wrong and destroy your attempts to be good and pure. It also forces you to dis-identify from your thoughts. Most people believe that they are in control of their thoughts and are thinking their thoughts but that's just not the case, for anyone. We believe that we live in a dualistic world, of opposites and things to avoid. There is right and wrong, pure and dirty, good and bad, etc. To someone with these kinds of thoughts nonduality and spirituality does not seem like a choice at all, it feels as if it's being forced on us, but by the thoughts that we believe are ours and coming from our own heads. This is experienced as something incredibly uncomfortable until we question what we are, what thoughts are and what they really have to do with each other. This kind of contemplation and questioning, along with mediation, mindfulness, consciousness work and self LOVE is the medicine. This voice is really attempting to free you from your own suffering. We make the mistake of blaming the impulses and voice FOR the suffering. It's not, it's illuminating it, it's showing our own suffering and resistance to us. It's an amazing gift. Mediation and studying nonduality and spirituality is key to accepting this gift, that comes in really scary ugly wrapping paper. This forum is a great place to start. Studying the Law of Attraction, Abraham Hicks was a huge help to me. OCD turns into impulses, which is intuition which leads you to joy and the unfolding of life you want to live the most. Again this is not a problem, it's a gift. If you can see what it is and what it's trying to liberate your from, you instantly become liberated from it. This won't happen until we realize that the voice itself is not what we need to be liberated from. You cannot let it go until you stop trying to get rid of it. What you resist persists. I know, I KNOW that sounds crazy to a mind that thinks it knows right from wrong and insanity from sanity. But THAT is the crazy part.

I started a blog for nonduality. https://mandylightonearth.blogspot.com/ I'm probably going to put some old stuff I've written up there as I come across it. I'll probably continue my journal with my random, spontaneous freedom that I currently love so much and post the "useful" stuff to the blog. Although my perceived differences between creative expression and knowledge sharing is starting to die. “The man, the art, the work--it is all one.” ― Eugen Herrigel

@zeroISinfinity talking about the infinite one self? You haven't realized yet that nonduality =solipsism? If you assert the existence of any "others" in any literal sense then it's duality. Or explain how can it be nonduality and there is seperate individual awarenesses?