Search the Community

It's about balance and the very real truth of protecting potentiality from the delusional extremism of absolutes and stasis. Protecting the reality of the dynamics of motion. It's about showing how the compulsion for Absolute Certainty is a flaw humans have to develop from in order to have a level of cognition more in line with quantum mechanics. A quantum cognition with perpetual motion, potential, and superposition, rather than unitary or binary stasis. Voids or vacuums are not an environment with absolute nothingness, there is no absolute beginning or ending, no absolute zero, no absolute or true self, no absolute or one truth. Instead there is always motion and access to something potentially different, no matter how "fixed" or "solid" or completely empty something appears to be. Everything can always change and that change is never so absolute, that it can't change into something else. It also points to a fundamental truth of the connection between specificity and limitation. And how that connection is counter-balanced by uncertainty and potentiality.

So what you are saying is because of the third law of thermodynamics, nothingness or the void cannot exist in absolute terms. It is nonsense as you says. Because everything is in motion - no temperature can mathematically and literally hit zero. This implies constant movement for what the universe is made up of which is atoms and molecules. This sort of thinking implies that you believe nothingness to be some sort of absolute thing and that the absolute is pure stillness. And it cannot exist because well, nothing ever goes to zero. The truest thing we have is movement according to what you say. Correct me if I'm wrong. I would, however, like for you to reevaluate that assumption that nothingness or the void cannot exist. Who says nothingness cannot exist? Have you ever had an experience of true nothingness? There are insights that can be grasped that are outside of the rational paradigm. They are paradoxical in nature, but they are certainly out there. And that includes the insight that reality is NOT made up of matter, energy, molecules, atoms, but NOTHING. Literally nothing. It is unbelievable. Nothingness is what is left when you remove all of the ideas and concepts and you are left with raw reality. But to understand this, you need to do an empirical investigation. This means using your senses, including vision, taste, touch, feeling, etc to enquire into the truth of existence. No one can do that for you, but yourself. Get outside of your rational mind and you might glimpse nothingness. It's right under your nose!

https://www.sciencealert.com/after-a-century-of-debate-cooling-to-absolute-zero-has-been-declared-mathematically-impossible "After more than 100 years of debate featuring the likes of Einstein himself, physicists have finally offered up mathematical proof of the third law of thermodynamics, which states that a temperature of absolute zero cannot be physically achieved because it's impossible for the entropy (or disorder) of a system to hit zero." "This explains why, no matter where you look, every single thing in the Universe is moving ever so slightly - nothing in existence is completely still according to the third law of thermodynamics." Hopefully, people can take the article and evidence above and apply it to their philosophies on life. Understanding that the seeking of absolutes is a flaw humans have yet to evolve and expand from due to our brains compulsion for tunnel-vision and propensity for choosing extremes rather than nuance and diversity, as well as foregoing balance through contrast rather than this blind reaching for balance through homogeneity. The void as an absolute is nonsense. Life is always a mixture of diversity to one degree or another and efforts to reach some idealized state of nothingness will always eventually lead you out of step with reality and how the world truly moves. Motion is the most honest thing in the world. Motion is life and understanding that, the elements of motion and how they provide shape and distinction and potentiality will do more for your development then chasing a void.

? How can you force someone to become enlightened with low consciousness? I am starting to see that there is indeed quite a rainbow of what it means to be enlightened (like maybe how I felt lighter when I finished my homework when I was younger, or maybe how monks have ascended to nothingness, or in this forum, the recognition of your lack of self). But where is this idea coming from that the CIA was forced into enlightenment?

@jseAn example, we just discussed - how does nothingness produce something? Another - how does change appear in a changeless consciousness? Another - what are qualia?

Why do we take getting enlightened as the ultimate truth? Why is nothingness taken as the ultimate truth? All evidence we have is some people with enlightenment experiences. I understand that it feels like the truth, but is it really?

So ironically it is the embracement of separateness and connection? Kind of nothingness and existence comes together and forms non-duality? May be? Or saying this, is just demogogy?

@Nahm Well, that's all I know if its useful very good, anyhow everyone must know from their own experiences. I see that your theme is free will vs determinism. Its an age old debate. The answers are different depending on where you stand. It depends on how deeply you know yourself (consciousness) and how much introspection you do on such matters. It looks like you have firm beliefs about QM/SR/GR and other theories. And you try to mix them with experience. It may or may not work. At most you will get paradoxes. Just remember that theories will take you no where, only direct experience can. Drop all beliefs, start clean. My direct experience tells me that the "choice" or "will" is an illusion. The event happens, a person or doer is created on the fly and the event is tagged as a "choice" of that person. Who is doing it? Obviously no one. But there is not nothingness, as you say, it must come from somewhere. Here you must see directly. All events happen, they come from nowhere and go nowhere. There is no source, not anything that can be known. Mind only knows that which is already organized, anything outside of that is unknowable. You can imagine a big doer outside there, an even bigger doer even more outside of outside and so on, but it'd be just fantasy - unknowable. Ah, all knowledge refers to known or knowable. Obviously unknowable cannot be knowledge. So when I say it all falls on your feet, i do not mean even the unknowable gets known. Its not possible, its by definition.

The question is what is to happen when lots of people would get it? http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/kabbalah/Creation/creation.html Here it looks to me that there should be some kind of ascension, it says "repairing of the world". Maybe like a man coming back from a long coma but for the whole of the universe? Are there any sources on what could multiple enlightened people come up with if working together in groups like scientists? Or is this experiential understanding all that there is? Maybe such people where never put together and having all their material needs met so that they can focus on further self study? Clearly enlightened people continue on living as usual people, they do not get frozen for the rest of their lifes with this Nothing is not Nothing revelation. But this should be the fringe where something mystical is happening, and it's not. As for example when we discover superconductivity, objects start flying on their own. So why there seems not to be any practical implications of enlightenment in the world? Only some enlightened people left some texts so that if someone were to have enough of an open mind and zeal, he could reach what they've reached. I haven't read the Jew scriptures, but here are some people with knowledge I understand. If their in-scripture view of the world is one of an enlightened human and should be taken literaly, is there anything else profound in there, which should be taken literally and which shows next steps after mass enlightenment? All this people with knowledge of a Nothingness could not possible think only about making the world a more harmonious, prosperous place, it's literally ridiculous. As are my sixteenth-assed attempts at grasping all this.

All examples are building resistance to some stuff like adversity or using body mechanics effectively. If you starve when/and feel good there is nothing chaotic about it, all as planned. If you have a stable job and do art project on side there is nothing chaotic. If you remove dirt from your mind it's just sweeping, nothing black swany about it. Antifragilty idea seems to me to be breaking laws of entropy. Planned calculated chaos is not chaos. Real life hydra would crumble under excessive heads weight. Leo style Nothingness hydra would be everything and not giving a flying f about fragility. Only some people are truly in their comfort zone - we call it enlightenment. For other souls, tormented as they are, its immoral to call them being comfortable. Imho.

As I said, there exist many minds; obviously,..Currently, if we speak in normal conceptual language, then I'm one person(one mind), and you're another person. Having a mind is an experience. Sure, a special type of experience, as other experiences are percieved through the mind. The mind is like a filter. Most rationalists won't agree having a mind is an experience, though There are infinite experiences. That which "has" the experience is Nothingness/You/Me/Infinity/Consciousness/Etc; it's all one, we're all one. Yes, Consciousness is having many experiences right now. Infinite experiences probably;) And yes they are all different. So yes there exist infinite experiences within this true ultimate One Self. "But where and in what dimension can a multiplicity of experiences occur? " I don't get your question. But of course existence is insanely mystical, so there are many questions we cannot answer:D You could also view it differently and say we're all streams of the same essence (consciousness). But why are you that stream, and me this stream? (Why I am having this experience right now, and why are you having "that" experience right now? :D)

Just as there are many trees, there are many flowers, many oceans, many stars, many pigs, many lions, many birds, many tables, many cups, many galaxies, many persons, many bodies, many minds, many hands, many cellphones, many computers, many websites, many feelings, many beliefs, many cultures, many viewpoints, many ideas, many thoughts, many experiences. However, all those "many's" are all deliberately created by You, popping into and out of existence within You, and perceived by You. You = Me = Consciousness = the only true self that is = Absolute Infinity = Nothingness. The error people tend to make is that they assume that a brain-mind is 'capable of experiencing experience' (experience = many's). A brain-mind is not capable of that. A brain is concept, which we define as a physical lump of billions of nerve cells (= more concepts, you can go on). A mind is an even more abstract concept, which can best be defined as a set of complex information/data/filters stored within a brain. Currently, You -- whoever is reading this meaningless text -- are perceiving existence through a mind "with the help" of a brain. You are not a brain. You are not a person. You are not a body. You are not a mind. You are not a thing. The brain and the associated mind is merely a "tool" for You to experience reality/existence in one unique way of the infinite possible ways.

I actually liked to meditate when I was a bit sleepy so far. It felt like I could go in deeper, because the sleepines seemed to take on the job of "diving deeper" or letting go and I had to just sit and observe how the sleepines is steadily leading me in deep states. It's like observing the sleepines. The negative point of course is that sometimes dozing off can happen. And isn't it easier to enter deep meditational Delta brainwaves when sleepy? In deep sleep, where only nothingness or our true nature seems to be left, delta brainwaves have been recorded.

How God (aka no-self/nothingness / everythingness) loves:

I think you didn't fully understand what I was saying. Yes, the "me" who was describing the ego, WAS the ego. I know that. But we need a form of communication, right? And the term "Ego" is accepted and known in this community. I also could call me an entity. In absolute truth, no entity exists nowhere. However, "we" are emptiness. And in this emptiness, there -seemingly- lives an entity with own (to us unconscious) agendas. You could also say, a mythological apparent entity is arising in emptiness/consciousness. There is only nothingness, but in this nothingness, an "entity" has nested with which we identified ourselves. Again, once non-duality is realized, the duality of "good" and "evil" is just a dream. But in relative terms we would call killing jews/raping people/steal from others "evil". And it is the ego who does this. Both on the micro and the macro cosmos it's running amok. I also wrote we must love and accept the unconscious shadow parts that are already existent. This is the opposite of building a shadow-side.

Motion and the connection of various pockets of motion into patterns are the absolute rather than nothingness. Enlightenment is a paradigm created by people who have not evolved enough yet to have quantum cognition as their base level state. Nor have the tensile resiliency to maintain cognitive superposition. I mean look at computers, they are binary electrical switches of 0 and 1, similar to how people argue between oneness vs duality. But you don't see people trying to make computers with only 0 or only 1 right? No, they are working on quantum computers that allow for Qubits to be both 1 and 0 at the same time as well as just 1 or 0. This gives computers exponential levels of multi-dimensionality because you can now stack and connect rather than remain in isolation. That is also how humans can evolve (how I have been evolving these past 5 years). You don't go backwards to this nonsense of everything being JUST one thing with zero differentiation. No, you learn how to work with connective tension and control your inner mechanisms of magnetism (van der waals forces or attraction and repulsion) and how that effects your perspective and cognition. That gives you control over intensity of attraction and repulsion and how it shifts your mind and emotions, choice over our propensity for tunnel vision (of which oneness is an extreme example), the ability to slow down and create a better environment for stability and harmony (much like suspending particles a hair above absolute zero), which allows you to STACK and build and connect to much greater levels then humans currently have experience of. That's the road to reality, not nothingness. People think thoughts arise from nothingness, but that's because they're stuck in on/off mode and aren't fast enough and expansive enough to see the underlying structures in the human body that activate the narrative and perspective creating parts of our minds. They can't hold the superposition necessary to have their awareness touch those other structures without automatically attaching and collapsing into a non superimposed state. Without that state, you can't see the different layers of dimensionality and the inter-relations between such things as volition and automation while also mediating all the various elements of movement that are all having an influence simultaneously at all times. There is so much nuance and context a person is missing out on, without that key multi-faceted ability.

Loved reading and inspired me, however, how is it like death, if you were experiencing something, be it nothingness? I get that it might be like death of the human, but how can it be like death, if you identify with who you trully are, that was never born and will never die. Just my thoughts, maybe this is what is stopping you from reaching that level of truth without a substance.

In my personal opinion, Enlightenment is the place before paradigms, and out of which all the paradigms appear. Hence, It is crucial to reach the screen in order to change your paradigm, the very context of your life... How the pixels of experience are perceived. And it has to be based in truth, otherwise you're going to be deluding yourself in a crazy paradigm where everything is against you, or whatever else bullshit the ego can conjure up. My thoughts, they come out of that same nothingness, and if I dont like them, I go there and order a new pack of thoughts for free! Let's change paradigms together, based on investigating reality and no self.

@Kloof It's not something you can believe. It's so radical it's unbelievable. You can only believe things your paradigm can imagine. And no paradigm can imagine Absolute Infinity or Nothingness. It's way too big for a mind to handle. The only way is by transcending mind. This is very challenging because everything you've ever experienced has been mind, so you don't know where to turn. You're stuck in mind for the time being. But inquiry will slowly unravel your mind.

Logic. What is the opposite of temporary life? Eternal life. Only reason its not eternal death, is because there is a truth which exists that tells us that we cannot imagine nothingness, so long as we are conscious.

I think there is a reason for why this kind of thought-pattern, or paradigm, has not survived and become an established religion. It is because, if you take the road to non-duality, or enlightenment, before having taken the road to love and compassion, one is destined to manifest into complete absence of action. In a way, it's quite like evolution. Those who were enlightened and loved, spread their enlightenment, because they indeed did not belief everything to be pointless. They have engineered their psyche in a way, that despite facing absolute nothingness, they could still operate from love. From that, actions of love took place, revolutionizing the world in the process. Now, everyone who was enlightened and did not take the path of love, did take another path nonetheless. That path simply lead to them not do anything. Their enlighenment showed them that the world is illusion, and even love was illusion. They had no reason to love anyone or anything. They had no reason to relief other beings of suffering, because after all, other beings don't exist. See, both paths are equally valid. The zen devil just as much as the enlightened buddhist. There is no reason not to love, just as much as there is no reason to love. Whether you will love or not completely depends on the leftovers of your psyche. The structures of your psyche will decide the actions you will take. And make no mistake, because even the absence of tradition will lead you to one set of actions over the other. How your mind interpretes "enlightenment" completely depends on your psyche. And ironically, any interpretation is illusion. Yet, the interpretation always happens. I choose the path of love now, not only so that it gives me strength to actually take this path to the end, but also because I want to act out of love if I ever am "enlightened". And if enlighenment was my only goal, I'd simply jump off a building. That would make short shrift of my ignorance. The true question is why not meddle with it? The avoidance of action, after all, is an action in itself.

@Leo Gura On the scale of a lifetime i have understood like 10% of what spirituality is all about ! ? So the absolute is really far from me but you're video on paradigm completely revolutionise my way of questionning reality and i was like : "because every experience is paradigmic ( i'll create this word ) than enlightement is non different than that !" But beyond the experiences of Nothingness and Emptiness i really wasn't knowing what was enlightement and i still don't know but now i know why enlightement is the absence of paradigm and why nothingness creates the absence of paradigm. Nothingness ultimately lead to the No-Self and the No-Self leads to Enlightement and Enlightement leads to the absolute, and the absolute leads to No paradigm. Keep on what you're doing. I'll love to follow .

@The Universe all paradigms happen inside emptiness/nothingness/consciousness. The "thing" where the paradigms are playing on is therefore not itself a paradigm. there are many different movies, but the movie screen itself is unaffected by them, it allows them to exist.

Anyone reached stillness during mediation? It is not just the calming of the mind/thoughtlessness but a pure subtle stillness. It is extremely subtle. Its hard to describe. I can get this 'feeling' (I say feeling, but essentially its just nothingness) during mediation and I try to hold onto it during the day but its no where near as intense. It fades away as I carry on with my day and completely vanishes as I work. Sometimes I regain the feeling randomly during the day, and I just sit there looking like I'm daydreaming but I'm completely still. Any ideas on how to make this 'feeling' last outside of mediation?

Death=Nothingness is Perfection indeed. That's one of my top theorems on the spiritual path in exploration of truth. The theorem is proven to myself, but it won't be satisfactory proof for you. Only you can prove that theorem to yourself, and you will, in due time, like everyone else.