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Some more to add. I really hope this helps someone, even a guest, because everyone's path is different yet has many crossovers. - It's like, lately, I spend time researching "conspiracy theories" (some are real or close to the truth) so my, whatever you call underneath the EGO mind, can sort/filter/process old stuff without me getting in the way. Then it all queues up, and I feel the need to meditate, or I get heart palpitations and other phenomena that tells me it is time to meditate. This has happened quite a few times over the last 8 months or so that I have been on the path alone with no support network. Anyway when this does happen, crazy stuff happens during the meditation in terms of either visuals or feelings then I get samadhi, you know where one second you are there, the next second you blink and 3 hours have passed by. Then after that I normally get some wierd experiences consciously. Last night I kept seeing flashes of white / silver, very quick flashes, randomly, with eyes either open or closed, and in the shower. I also woke up in bed a few times because it was like I was a different person re-living life from a different perspective, this is kind of difficult to say though because it was like I saw someone elses entire life flash by within 1 second of my conscious life. Then I woke up today in no-thought state as usual then had this ephiphany that all the choices I made in life lead up to this moment in life, the dukkha (suffering) I experience due to having no friends, and a sad miserable life. I knew this already from the POV of the mind ie logically but this was on a much deeper level than that. And it makes me question myself because...all the nondual teachers, they teach that you don't make decisions. That there is no personal choice. There is nondoership and you are just along for the ride. This ephiphany is completely contrast to that. Like, I am typing this out of choice, or am I typing this because "Consciousness" (and I really do put this in quotes now because it seems to me that "Consciousness" does not exist as we call it "Consciousness") wants me to - ergo nondoership? I am fully aware of the dualities between duality (reality) and nonduality (underneath reality) yet I am not getting the nondoership either logically (mind) or experiantally. Consciously I feel like having no friends, the dukkha caused is outweighed by the peace caused. No arguements, no drama, no trying to navigate the complex interelationship dynamics of multiple people. I have tried both and far prefer this way, yet the epiphany said this has caused suffering. But Buddhist Noble truth #1 states life IS dukkha - life IS suffering - so how have I caused my own suffering because anything I did do in life would be suffering? Do I even need to understand this? Maybe the ephiphany just was...and I shouldn't try to get it. Maybe the sky is just blue and we shouldn't have an explanation why the sky is blue? Sorry for the essay. I feel compelled to write it.

This video answers precisely that question https://www.actualized.org/insights/skepticism-and-nonduality

I heard nonduality includes duality.

Any distinction is a form of dualism. Regarding the I am God thing. . . People get confused and twisted because they conflate the personal relative “I” with the absolute level of God. And most people have a ton of preconceived ideas of God which is a hindrance. I think the phrase “I am everything” can be more helpful. Said another way, they are conflating duality and nonduality due to lack of experience with nonduality.

@Peo To me, explaining nonduality using language is quite limited because the human language itself is dual. When you try to explain it, unless you are a gifted teacher, you are at the risk of sounding insane and people will definitely not relate to you, like Jim Carrey as others suggested here. Try to communicate it by experiencing it. You don't have to speak about it unless you are asked directly. Don't just waste your energy on finding the right words, even to yourself, spend it on embodying it and people will see there is something different in you, but more likely this will be about peace and love instead of "my kid's just gone mad, we need to see a shrink." I almost never talk about my spiritual journey, nonduality and stuff like that with my husband for example. On the outer shelf, he identifies with being very logical, very scientific, and a bit religious too. He mostly resists non-religious spiritual teachings. Because I know he resists it, I don't feed his resistance by using my words. However, I can see just living with him and being myself is changing him immensely. And the consciousness will continue to raise whether or not you talk about it. So just focus on your consciousness, and it will benefit the consciousness of all beings on the planet.

@Peo Nonduality is not the reason you want to go on the retreat. What is the reason(s)?

Yes, I understand. This view/experience is tapping into nonduality. Yet its not the full monty. This view/experience is melting into the natural world and becoming the ISness of the natural world. Yet it is also making distinctions and includes separateness. To truly go beyond all paradigms and falsehoods, one word is too many. What is being viewed/experienced above is a profound and beautiful aspect of nonduality. Ime, it is much easier to enter nondual states in nature. Nature is a very powerful teacher of nonduality and ISness.

Wasn't claiming it applied to you btw was a general statement. But surely you've seen, say, an expression of ego then people go "What? No ego here, just nonduality no self"

Hey. Im Konrad, im 19 and this is my first post in this forum, actually I have just discovered it and I am pleasantly surprised. I'm getting ready for my first psychodelic trip with magical mushrooms for about 2-3 weeks. I have several bothering, important questions: 1.what dose should I take on the first trip of Psylocibe Cubensis B +? I think about 1,75 g. My trip is focused primarily on the exploration of consciousness, getting rid of fears that limit me. I've been meditating for a year. I understand the whole nonduality and the fact that the truth is silence.The mushrooms themselves spoke to me. I'm completely ready. 2. should I approach the trip with the intention that mushrooms help me get rid of patterns and fears in my head (My body has a lot of fears, I have small problems with communication in the company. I feel it's all in my DNA.) and broaden my awareness, or should I completely accept what they give me, without any expectations/intentions? 3.Is it better to spend this trip alone, or with a friend who will also eat mushrooms? 4. I really want to get rid of in my body: fears, patterns, limitations. Should I remind all the situations that causes me fear in the morning the same day? For example, when I want to speak in the company (even friends), I feel fear. I do not even understand why. Notice: Please describe complicated things as simply as possible. My English is not great

@Peo Nonduality is post-intellectual / post-rational so it is very hard to communicate through rational discussion. People on this forum are spending waaay too much time in intellectual zones. There are other modes of being that are much juicier. Explaining nonduality through the intellect is like eating a cardboard picture of chocolate. Go straight to the source. Go straight to the direct experience of eating chocolate. Direct experience is much more powerful and direct. Nearly everyone has had glimpses of nonduality. Guide them into reflecting on the own direct experience. For example: 1. Imagine a time in your life you were awestruck by something magnificent. For me, this was seeing the Grand Canyon for the first time and stepping in St. Peters Bascillus in the Vatican. It was so magnificent is was overwhelming. I was speechless. I stood there for a few moments and dissolved. There were no thoughts and no "me". I was still aware, yet there was just magnificence, just beauty. Oneness. After a few moments my self kicked back in and I started thinking things like "This is so amazing!!!! I totally need to get a picture of this and post in on Facebook. I wish that couple would get out of the way - they are blocking my view". Notice the difference between the nondual glimpse and the conditioned dualistic state. These are very short glimpses and most people may not reflect on them. Yet nearly everyone has had an experience like this and you can encourage them to reflect on it. 2. Love. Many people have had moments in which they experienced deep love. Perhaps with a child, a pet or a lover. The person "melts" and loses sense of themself. There is no "me" and "you" there is just the presence of love. This is generally a very brief glimpse and the person "snaps out of it". Then they start thinking dualistically again. Stuff like "I love you", "This feels so good" or insecure thoughts like "What if she leaves me?". Again, notice the contrast between the nondual experience and the dualistic conditioning. 3. Flow States. a.k.a "being in the zone". Most people who have participated in sports or can play a musical instrument has had glimpses into flow states - the zone. For example, a football player completely in the Now. All thoughts dissolve. All sense of "me" dissolve. There is just happenings in the moment. Similarly, a musician playing the trumpet that loses sense of themself and environment. It's as if the person is one with the instrument. As if the trumpet is playing itself. Again, these are brief glimpses. The athlete will snap out of it and think dualistically again. Stuff like "He fouled me!!". The musician might start thinking dualistically with stuff like "dang, I just missed that note". Nearly everyone can relate to one or more of the above. Not only that, it is also a HUGE turn on and gets people's interest. The above examples are the juice of life. Everyone wants to experience more of it. Now imagine telling someone that rather than being in the zone for 2 seconds once a month, you can be in the zone state 20min everyday. Who wouldn't want that? After explaining the above, I ask people "What percentage of your day do you spend in the above states of consciousness?". For most people these are small glimpses - perhaps 0.01% of their life. So brief they may not even be consciously aware of it. I've explained the above and people have responded "Yes! I've experienced that! I didn't know it was a real thing. I didn't know it had a name. How do I experience more of it?". Now I tell people two things. . . Imagine increasing your time of the above nondual states from 0.01% of your life to 1% of your life. That is a 100X increase. Everyone says sign me up. Next I say "I only gave you three flavors of nondual states. There are dozens more that are equally wonderful". This increases their interest and and desire.

There are no '' enlightened'' beings. Only God IS. Once you become conscious of God and that I am It, you can do whatever you want. Why just chop wood and carry water? Why not join an online non-dual forum and expand consciousness for others and see others understanding and perspectives on nonduality and God etc etc. To me that's just fun.

@Schahin Science has ‘proven’ “reality” (your dream) is constructed with 11 dimensions. So the 12th is a reference to nonduality, or seeing the 11, from the perspective of 12th. The 12th is a mystery pointed at by most who are working the 11 dimensions “model”, as the 11 dimensions is used to explain how consciousness (thought & perception) is accomplished by the human brain. I like to see it as the 12th is the scientist creating the 11, unbeknownst to him / her. So it seems like there are 11 dimensions, in dimensionlessness actuality. This will likely lead to the revaluation (apocalypse) human did not evolve as currently assumed. (Aka it’s a dream, now) Collectively, it’s gonna take a while for the paradigm shift of consciousness being infinite (not a product), but really, that’s your own perspective / reality, which is “taking a while”, because that is the dream, ....“a while”. At some point, relatively, a lot of resources will go to discovering that 4 dimensions of “reality” can not be resolved with 11 dimensions “in the brain”. Then science and spirituality must be reconciled for both or either to continue. Paradoxically, that will be the “end” of both, which are not currently anything (just belief). This should at least initially bring to light that the finite perspective sees in in 11 dimensions, or dimensionlessness....but not both. It will be “resolved”, (or “12th dimension seen”) with the understanding and acceptance there are not separate finite perspectives, as science turns the corner into what from the current paradigm might be referrenced as “dream science” (which actually turns out to be non-dream science finally, but only in hindsight). Or more simply, that there never was 3 or 4 dimensions, only the dimensionlessness experience (“dream”). Having watched the most recent video + 30 silent days, Leo will probably be “the one” who brings this breakthrough together / to light (more literally, bringing the light to experience). Soon the term “outer space” will feel like “the earth is the center of the universe”...as it’s realized you are the “center” of the “universe”.

1.75g is a light to moderate dose. Based on what you wrote, you seem to be interested in using psychedelics for personal development (to discover and work through subconscious fears. Especially for your initial time, I would not get close to ego death. It can be very insightful, yet also very destabilizing. And the sub ego death zone can induce anxiety and distraction. I wouldn’t go higher than 1.75g and would consider a bit lower so you still feel grounded during the trip and it is a positive experience. And a light dose is much easier to integrate into sober life. I had a similiar intention when I first used psychedelics - to discover subconscious fears. Ime I would suggest a couple things. First, I would reorient the mind so it is not so self seeking oriented. I’m hearing a self that mushrooms are a tool to get what the self wants - to remove subconscious fears. I could get away with that mindset at lower doses, yet not at moderate or high doses. Here, I would reframe the intention as a humble request that subconscious fears be revealed. I would not approach ego death with any type of agenda. If one goes into that zone with a mindset that they are in control and are using shrooms as a tool, it will likely be a rough ride. When the self dissolves, nonduality doesn’t care about the self. There is no separate self to care about. Yet at 1.75 you would likely be below this zone. Second, I would plan to trip three times on this intention. The first time on a low dose then higher if needed. Trips can be very different based on dose, mindset and setting. The deep insight might not come in the first trip. You may be in bliss the whole or throwing up or staring at something for an hour. If you do three trips, the odds of having one with deep insights is pretty good. As well, the theme of each trip will likely be different. You may be shown the nature of fear from three different perspectives which may give a more complete experience and understanding.

Personally I find Maslow's Herairchy to be flawed as you don't require love/belonging or esteem to secure the bottom two or the top two. Also Self Transcedence shouldn't mean sense of meaning, it should mean sense of knowing what you are, / nonduality at the very least. Again it is flawed because it only represents the illusionary "I" world.

you need to understand that you are not only god but you are also the devil. ignoring your shadowside will lead to suffering. of course the divine is in you and it’s cute and loving - but understand that there is duality within nonduality, if you want or not. you just saw a tiny glimpse of what god really is.

because there is duality in nonduality. the devil exists within everything. even the devil has two faces.

The deeper I settle into nonduality the less I feel inclined to talk about it on forums. I have found myself withdrawing from all communities, like there is no need because of "divine knowledge" of being part of everything + happenings of nondoership. I wrote out a huge reply and deleted it because it just seems rather absurd to talk about...words cannot describe it very well and it feels like it won't help you either. Everyones "path" to nothing / nowhere is completely different and I have found on my own that reading peoples experiences leads to some expectancy then confusion when my "path" doesn't follow theirs. I say "path" because there is no path but that's a sentence you won't understand until / if you experience it, another example of why this all seems silly.

@8Ball Philosophy major here. You will most likely read "the great books" of the Western world starting with the Greeks up until perhaps the late 19th century (Dostoevsky, Nietzsche, etc.) This is useful for you in the sense that it gives you a full crash course on the perspective of hyper-intellectual thinking. You will stretch your mind to its limits. You will scratch at the horizons of the thinking mind and it will prompt you to think, "wow, the mind is so amazing, and yet look how lost we are!" At the same time, however, you will not transcend the mind in this setting, ever. The mind being king is assumed from the get-go. Awareness isn't even on the radar. You will be tooled for bringing up nonduality, as you will be pressed for "evidence." Explaining to a paradigm-locked college professor that "evidence" is secondary to "experience" is a losing battle, for they have been living the past 50 years of their lives under the illusion that evidence is necessary for something to be true (Which, in some ways, is true! But then again, what is considered evidence?) Besides, the second you start "battling" with someone over nonduality, you're lost. You've made it a belief. Not only is it almost impossible to convince your professor to begin with, but in the act of convincing your professor, you've made an ideology out of Truth. Very slippery. Expect them to press for "textual evidence" to "back up your claims." When you bring up eastern books, expect "that's not philosophy." (I've had this exact conversation!) If you have a true love of wisdom, an institution will never do it for you. (It's Ironic because my university's fight song goes, "true love of wisdom is sheltered in her halls!")

First of all, kudos for listening to your heart. Have you taken Leo's Life Purpose Course? If yes, then I hope all exercises point towards this route. I didn't study philosophy in college, but I know people here in the UK who did, and unfortunately, most of them changed their fields after graduation. When we enter the job market, we face the harsh reality of a stage Orange world, and our desire to awaken humanity isn't met with enthusiasm. But I believe you can always make a great career in philosophy. The most important thing to keep in mind is that you need to be the absolute best that you can be, at this. It's not a problem of building a career, as much as it is a problem of job opportunity. E.g.: There are a lot of vacancies in Sales and call centers. So the industry is willing to tolerate mediocrity in their employees, and hence, we have many people living the boring 9-5 mediocre life. Whereas the number of jobs for a philosophy major might be less, so there's less scope for mediocrity. But, if you are really good at what you do, you WILL make a great career out of it. You can always move to other places for better opportunities. Secondly, try thinking outside the box. How could you use your knowledge of philosophy (and self-actualization) for societal development AND make money too? Perhaps the answer won't be becoming a traditional professor, but instead, could be something like launching online courses, becoming a life coach or even entering politics. Lastly, be aware that most philosophy departments are paradigm locked, and won't see past their biases and worldview. When articulating nonduality, you will have an uphill battle on your hands. But if you absolutely believe you'll love that fight, I say go for it!

@Arhattobe I think we should give nonduality certificates like this. lol Cool stuff.

First of all, I apologize if this is in the wrong section, and I will delete/move it if I need to. I don't post here often, clearly. But i've followed Leo and his videos for some time. Part of the forum intimidates me, but that's not what this thread is about. I've followed Leo and his videos for some time. Years. I've experimented with LSD and marijuana. I've had some very radical experiences, some may consider 'awakening' or 'ah-ha', and even more recently, that 'big O' moment. I don't consider myself enlightened by practical standards or anyone, and i'm concerned using these terms will turn the topic away with what i'm trying to convey. I've been admitted to a psychiatric ward twice, mostly due to the LSD (everyone in my life points to the drugs, and I will coincide that they certainly didn't help) I attribute it to my lack of good foundation. Even my 2nd visit was not as intense nor as long because I already knew how to conduct myself once I got out of the mental tizzy that sent me there. It's hard to put into words, as I'm sure anyone on this forum can appreciate, so the best thing I can do is simply to convey my experience. Before anyone gets worked up to tell me I need to seek help, I am already working with a therapist, taking medication, and getting very healthy support from my family and friends. I don't consider my situation unstable at all, and am very fortunate to have. They do not, however, really share my worldviews when it comes to the ideas expressed by Leo or on this forum. (enlightenment, nonduality, spirituality, self-actualization, etc) I've been doing this work on my own and not really talking or sharing it with anyone because I recognize that it is deeply personal work and any answer I try to seek from another kind of undermines the whole godhead idea. After my first trip to the psychiatric ward, I stopped taking LSD and still haven't to this day. That was at least 2-3 years ago. I was a mess, and will freely admit I was not personally ready to take such a deep dive (I was doing things like meditating while on acid) The biggest contributing factor was that began to believe my body was somewhere it was not, and I could be unintentionally be hurting myself or people around me.(Im sure plenty of you have seen/experienced 'freakouts' on these substances) This seems heavily influenced by the LSD. It took me being in a ward where people could monitor me to get over it. The people around me in the ward certainly didn't help me with any of my delusions. After my visit, i stepped away from anything related to self inquiry. I got a 2nd job and worked my ass off so to not put my family through that again. I got comfy and started smoking marijuana on a regular basis. I started to become a bit of a bum and didn't like it. I began to work on myself in a very... how do I put this.. 'grounded' way. I tried to improve myself in way that werent related to spirituality or enlightenment at all. Following a day to day schedule, weightlifting, changing my diet, etc. Very, 'in reality' kind of methods. Finally Leo uploads his 'What is god part 1& 2 videos. I start watching them, taking notes. A lot of what he condenses makes a lot of sense and I begin to experience things again closer to more non-dual experiences. I began to draw lines to what he was saying, what I was experiencing, and even doctrines were saying (Like cChristianity) things were making 'too much' sense. I began experiencing reality in a way that seemed like it was reacting to me and I was reacting to it. (in retrospect they seem heavily based on my ego projections, at least) and it made it difficult to 'survive'. I went back to the same hospital that I had been to previously.. but by that time I was done with my illusions, and my stay was not long. Now I'm told everything was triggered by the drugs, (I engage in a lot of self-talk and self-criticism, and that could have been amplified by the drugs , ill admit) part of me can appreciate that, and another part wants to really get to the bottom of how much was triggered by the drugs, where I am on this scale of noduality thinking. I understand that this can complicate things, but it's funny because I had that big 'O' moment and have really come full circle. That saying where the practice is like shaking your closed fist to get a child excited, only to open it and reveal your empty palm. I need to live my life, fully live it, and I want to. But I do not want to 'give up' on this line of non-duality thinking. I guess I just want to do it properly. I apologize if this is more rambled than I intended, there are too many things, to many experiences for me to really condense it all here.. I guess I just want to know... after all this, where am I now? How do I move forward in a healthy way. It feels weird to consider myself enlightened, it feels more like, i'd going in a spiral direction, getting a little better each time. If that makes any sense. I guess im looking for some way to frame all of this a way, so that I can make the most of my experiences so far and live in a way that will lead to self-actualization

The ego likes to hide behind nonduality, pretend it doesn't exist and keep doing its work. Not saying it applies to you but thought it might be a good insight. @Tistepiste godspeed. ? You will be growing till the end. So embrace every part of the journey.

@Joshaps I’ve found that as I develop, my previous experiences get recontextualuzed. Some of my lowest moments have led to deep insights and eventually helped develop empathy and have become helpful to others, I think personal development and spiritual concepts are great, yet I’m not sensing much about grounding practices. I’ve found practices that ground me in the present moment really help with mental stability. For me, my top three grounding practices are: 1. Breathing. I prefer breathing exercises in kriya yoga and yin yoga. It was awkward at first, yet once I got through the initial begginner stage, it’s become a potent grounding tool. 2. Balancing postures in yoga. Balancing postures force the mind-body to be aware and attentive in the present moment. If the mind wanders, you fall. One cannot half-ass balance postures. Again, it can be a bit awkward at first, yet once you start getting it down it becomes absolutely amazing. The relationship between mind-body, ground, balance, strength, focus, stillness, effort and relaxation goe so deep. I was blown away. 3. Nature. Getting away from all the theory, memories, worries, human interactions etc. can help relax and clear the mind. Here, we don’t want to be worrying and thinking about stuff. Let all that go for a little while. When the mind-body is fully relaxed in nature and begins observing and being within nature, magnificence is revealed. You mention you would like to learn about nonduality. I can’t think of a better nonduality teacher than nature. It is the absolute best classroom. Observe the inter-relationships between insects, plants, animals, streams, rocks etc. They are all one system living in harmony, Let yourself go and allow yourself to connect and communicate with nature. Nature can be so gentle and forgiving. It is not judgemental or critical. I can go to depths in nature that I just can’t go with othet humans.

I like this article in the sense that it challenges the dogmatic materialist view. At the collective conscious level, we are waaay too shifted toward the materialist view of cognition. Yet I see two main problems with this article. 1. It tries to use materialism to refute materialism. Aint gonna happen. Neuroscience is much more advanced within the material realm than armchair philosophers. It would be like me stepping into a ring with a black belt karate master. I don't know karate and my "spin moves" would look absolutely ridiculous. I would fall over. For example, the author tried to center his argument around an exercise he does with children. The child is asked to draw a dollar bill on the board and he draws a basic outline of a dollar bill. The teacher then tapes an actual dollar bill to the board and asks the child to draw another dollar bill. Of course, the child draws a much more detailed dollar bill. The author then concludes the brain is not like a computer because the child could not draw a detailed dollar bill without the picture. Noone is saying the brain IS a photographic camera or that the brain IS an actual computer. The analogy is that the brain is similar to a computer. He goes on to state: "A thousand years of neuroscience will never locate a representation of a dollar bill stored inside the human brain for the simple reason that it is not there to be found. The idea that memories are stored in individual neurons is preposterous: how and where is the memory stored in the cell?" He says scientists will never locate and actual representation of a dollar bill in the brain. First off, they might. There may be a physical thing in the brain representative of a dollar bill, who knows? He is using an argument from ignorance fallacy. People do this in religion all the time. Just because something is not detected and cannot be imagined by a mind does not mean it doesn't exist. 1,000 years is a looong time and our understanding of brain activity will be MUCH more advanced to the point we can't even imagine today. . . His second statement is wrong. We know that memories are correlated to the hippocampus. When a person is recalling memories, the hippocampus becomes active. When the hippocampus is inactivated, no memories arise. Perhaps "storage" is not the right word because it suggests a physical item being stored. Yet, there is clearly some type of association between the material hippocampus and the (likely) immaterial memory. There is plenty of research of computers decoding brain activity back into images. For example, people can watch a movie and a computer can decode brain activity back into the images of the movie. This is one form of a computer decoding a different language of another type of computer brain. There is an integration of the immaterial and material into holism. Taking one side or the other is a major block against deeper understanding. I think it is a big mistake to have a dualistic view and say the brain is either immaterial or material. It is both and neither. The immaterial is material and vice-versa. Once we get into this mindset, our progress and understanding will skyrocket. In terms of opposition to the materialist view, a much stronger argument resides in metaphysical realms. That is, nonduality. The brain resides in One nondual consciousness. Consciousness does not arise from a physical brain. The physical brain resides in consciousness. Yet again, this is a dualistic view of nonduality vs. duality. The deepest levels of understanding will integrate the two.

@Joshaps Keep on the healing / health / self discipline lifestyle. Keep accepting all the help available, as you are. There is nothing you’re missing. There is something you’re adding, which you can inspect, and therefore understand & realize how you’re adding it, and it is overthinking, thinking against yourself, and thinking nonduality. Byron Katie’s The Work (app) is as simple and efficient as it gets in addressing residual hurt ‘from the past’, overthinking & thinking against yourself. (Those turn out to be the same) Nonduality wise, you’re thinking about nonduality, and or thinking the perspective ‘nonduality’. What will liberate, what I believe you’re looking for, is the understanding that ‘nonduality’ is. It already is. You know this, and you’re also “remembering the big O”, and thinking nondually. Nonduality is. Thought veils. There is no such thing as a True thought. You are the Truth. There is no such thing as a thought about nonduality. When all thought subsides, ceases, what already was prior to thought, is. It just now is, without the veil of thinking So how to be without thinking, right? There’s past experience which you’re torn between bringing up and dealing with - or - just letting go of / not bringing up anymore, yes? But neither is “working”, yes?