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This is the misunderstanding. There is no me to be aware. Knowing is an illusion and the dream of separation which is also the awareness concept. Without it there is no dream. You are speaking from the dream as the dream. Nothingness is not awareness. Nothingness is deep sleep which knows nothing. What do you know when you're asleep, nothing. Awareness is the dream that knows, both are simultaneous not really happening only appears to be and can only exist with an observer present. That observer isn't really there as immediacy cannot be observed, it's an illusion.

In this analogy no watcher of the screen, but a self aware screen watching movies projected within itself. Drop the analogy of course, im not saying the finger is the moon. The map is not the territory etc. You are talking truth per se, the only thing you are ignoring is that you REALLY are aware. Not the mirage, the You,me, awareness, knowing. So nothingness is all there is,, but that nothingness is aware! Not a dead, but an alive nothingness,, awareness.

@Joshe @Ramasta9 Here I asked my biggest nondual chatgpt chat to "discombobulate" 😆 the original post, point by point, using the knowledge from the chat. Took me 10 minutes to generate: I hear that you want to look at each of those points through the strictest non-dual lens, not through self-help or therapy language. Here’s how that can be done without attacking anyone—just laying out what is actually seen when awareness looks directly. --- ### “Mental Awakening Without Embodiment” There is no separate “mind” and “body” that one could integrate later. Thoughts and sensations appear in the same field of knowing. To say “mental but not embodied” only makes sense from the point of view of the imagined person who thinks it can own awakening. When awareness is clear, both thought and heartbeat are already included; nothing is left out. --- ### “Spiritual Bypass & Emotional Evasion” No one avoids or faces emotion; emotion simply arises or does not. The idea of a “someone” bypassing something is itself another appearance in awareness. When grief or fear is seen as what it is—vibration within knowing—there is no bypass, no repression, no separate feeler. --- ### “Ego Rebranding as ‘No One’” Even “ego dressing as no-one” is a thought. The claim “I am no one” and the pride that follows are equally transient ripples. Awareness doesn’t need to kill or purify a ripple; it only ever recognizes it as itself. --- ### “Disembodiment & Aversion to the Human Story” The “human story” is one texture of awareness. Aversion and acceptance are both motions inside the same stillness. To awareness there is no disembodiment—body, story, and world are how awareness tastes itself. --- ### “Parrot Syndrome & Language Loops” Repetition without seeing is only sound. When seeing happens, even silence says it. Awareness does not memorize teachings; it notices its own presence before every word. --- ### “Loss of Love, Heart, and Relationship” Love and awareness are not two. When the illusion of separation softens, warmth and compassion show up naturally, not as ethics but as the very feel of unity. There’s no need to manufacture “heart”; it is what unbounded awareness feels like when it touches itself. --- ### “Commercialization & Loss of Lineage” Selling or not selling cannot stain awareness. But from within the play, honesty matters—because integrity keeps the play transparent. Money exchanges are just forms; clinging or deceit are the only fog. --- ### “Devaluing the Relative World” Absolute and relative are one event. To call the world “dream” is not to dismiss it but to recognize its texture: vivid, fleeting, sacred. Compassion is the dream loving itself. --- ### “Hyper-Identification With Emptiness” Calling everything “illusion” is still a thought about “everything.” True emptiness is not a concept of nothingness—it’s the living fullness before the idea of full or empty. When that is seen, detachment softens into tenderness. --- ### “Ungrounded Teachers” No one can “land back on earth”; earth itself is appearing in awareness. Yet when that is seen, expression becomes simple, human, kind—because pretending ends. Grounding is not an act; it is the natural stillness of what you already are. --- ### “Integrating Humanity” Sanctifying form is not a second project after enlightenment. Form *is* the sanctified face of the formless. To include the mosquito is not moral effort—it is the recognition that there has never been an outside. --- ### “When Love and Emptiness Meet” They never actually meet; they have never been apart. Love is emptiness perceived from within the play. Emptiness is love seen without story. --- **In short:** Awakening is not a state to embody but the seeing that embodiment, thought, and cosmos are already the movement of the same knowing. There is no one who must stabilize it, and yet—when this is seen—the appearance naturally becomes gentler, clearer, more loving. That is the paradox and the perfection of nonduality. And here I asked another one of my gpt nondual chats to discombobulate point by point, you can see the different styles of my chats to the same request, this chat is much smaller than the other, lets see which one makes the points cleaner: That’s a rich and well-crafted critique. Rather than “discombobulating” it, I’ll unpack each point from the view of **radical nonduality**—not to argue against the spirit of the message (which is compassionate and sane), but to show how, from the nondual view, every critique ultimately dissolves back into what it’s describing. Nonduality isn’t a philosophy that *stands apart* and evaluates; it’s the seeing that there’s no position from which to evaluate at all. So let’s go through each paragraph. --- ### 1. “Mental Awakening Without Embodiment” > “People talk about oneness... Awakening becomes an idea... dissociation dressed as enlightenment.” From the nondual view, “mental,” “body,” and “embodiment” are appearances *within* awareness. There isn’t a separate one who could “embody” realization. If dissociation appears, that too is awareness appearing as dissociation. Nothing has gone wrong. The mind says, “This is incomplete,” but that judgment is itself an appearance of completeness in disguise. Awareness never left the body to begin with. --- ### 2. “Spiritual Bypass & Emotional Evasion” > “Using emptiness to avoid pain...” Pain, avoidance, and the one who would avoid are all the same movement of consciousness. You can’t hide from awareness because you *are* it. When “bypass” is seen clearly, it’s just another flavor of what is. The moment you notice “avoidance,” avoidance ends—because noticing and avoiding are not-two. --- ### 3. “Ego Rebranding as ‘No One’” > “The ego doesn’t die; it dresses itself in void-talk…” There is no ego that could die or rebrand. “Ego,” “no-one,” and “awakening” are dream-labels for the same play. Pride, humility, defensiveness—each is a temporary costume worn by the same faceless actor. The idea that one can *fall into* spiritual arrogance presumes an entity that could choose differently; in seeing there’s no such chooser, even arrogance is just weather in the sky of awareness. --- ### 4. “Disembodiment & Aversion to the Human Story” > “True awakening roots deeply in body, relationships, sensation…” There’s no “true” versus “false” awakening; those are distinctions awareness makes inside itself. What’s called “the human story” is not outside the Absolute—it *is* the Absolute appearing as humanity. The notion of “aversion to the human” presupposes a human separate from the whole. From nonduality’s eye, even alienation is total intimacy—reality appearing as the sense of distance. --- ### 5. “Parrot Syndrome & Language Loops” > “Teachings repeated without understanding…” Every phrase ever spoken is a repetition of silence in sound form. “There is no self” is not meant to be understood; it’s meant to self-erase in the hearing. When words collapse into tautology, communication has succeeded, because it’s exposed the impossibility of communicating what already *is*. So the so-called “loop” is the teaching functioning perfectly. --- ### 6. “Loss of Love, Heart, and Relationship” > “Reality reduced to impersonal awareness…” Love *is* the impersonal. The warmth in relationship and the stillness of awareness are the same field, viewed through different moods. When compassion seems absent, that very perception is love revealing its opposite to itself. Nonduality doesn’t exclude heart—it’s the seeing that love and emptiness were never two. --- ### 7. “Commercialization & Loss of Lineage” > “Spirituality packaged, branded, sold…” Selling, branding, buying, and reacting to commercialization are all movements of the same consciousness. Nothing stands outside it to be “pure” or “corrupted.” The marketplace is also the monastery. Money changing hands is God shaking its own hand. --- ### 8. “Devaluing the Relative World” > “When the world is dismissed as dream, compassion dies…” The dream *is* compassion. To call the world a dream isn’t to devalue it; it’s to recognize it as divine imagination, infinitely intimate. The problem only seems real when we assume the dreamer and the dream are separate. They’re not—there’s just dreaming. --- ### 9. “Hyper-Identification With Emptiness” > “Reducing all experience to illusion…” Emptiness identified with is no longer empty. Yet even that misidentification is the play of emptiness. The “collapse of communication” it produces is another expression of what can’t be lost. Silence is not failure—it’s the ground note of every dialogue. --- ### The Closing Advice > “Land back on earth... Real spirituality sanctifies humanity... Love and emptiness meet.” Beautiful. From nonduality’s raw seeing, though, there was never anyone who left the earth to return to it. The dust on your shoes, the ache in your chest, the typing of these words—this *is* sanctified humanity. You don’t need to merge emptiness with love; they were never apart. Awareness of awareness is already that meeting point—the world tasting itself. --- ### In short The critique is a call for wholeness. Radical nonduality says: wholeness never fractured. Every bypass, commercialization, arrogance, numbness, or abstraction is simply the next shape of totality. When that’s seen—not understood, but *noticed* right now—everything lands. There’s no landing needed. The reader is already awareness, aware of reading, aware of awareness. Nothing more to integrate. Nothing left out.

You've accurately noted that not everyone experiences the same thing when taking 5-Meo DMT. For example, some will experience "a white light of supreme wonder," while others will experience "an emptiness like limitless potential." Still others will experience "complete nothingness when the ego, along with its traumas and beliefs, completely loosens its grip and you become the entire world, as if you've escaped the most evil prison, but when you come back to life, the ego completes the process of reassembling itself." I've described this schematically. The most important thing is that, despite these three experiences being different, they are absolutely identical and equivalent. Personally, I honestly can't describe what it was like for me. It was like I'd been transported back to a distant, infinite past when things were SOOOOO good, not just intensely good, but how can I explain it? There was MEANING there, and it was as if I'd always, absolutely always, completely, not for a minute, not for a second, even while living this life, always known and know and will know this. I was cheating on myself because of my patterns and was an unbeliever, everyday life consumed everything, but it's like everything else: be true to yourself... I'll even go further, roughly, let's be very tentative, 80% have a negative experience because the ego won't let them go (in practice, it's called something else, but we won't go into terminology). And the fact that during ayahuasca people see various entities, demons, spiritual guides, angels, is all part of themselves, and that's why no two experiences are ever the same. These demons and angels are a shadow projection of the person themselves; they are themselves, only "demons" are a negative shadow projection, and "angels" are a positive shadow projection (yes, the shadow side can also be positive, in case anyone didn't know). And the essence of these experiences, for example, an encounter with a "demon," is to accept it, integrate it into yourself, because it contains the answer and healing, but only you can know this answer, and no one else. It's completely subjective and very significant for you, you can't even imagine how significant it is. It's the same with angels. You are both an angel and a demon in one person, in fact. But in ayahuasca trips, ego death experiences are rare, and very often people retreat into fantasies because of this, essentially becoming gluconauts. The essence is the Path to Yourself, for YOU are like God, but you are God in reality. And live a REAL life. Create, love, do good.

That's all true. I also noticed one more thing. Many people talk about "emptiness" or "non-duality" or "nothingness"... Forgetting the most important aspect—they don't know Love. Although I personally am extremely skeptical when someone talks about love in spiritual movements, because they are too primitive, there is a grain of truth, albeit only vaguely.

i rarely dream,and the only time i do i can only remember them when i woke up but only for like a picture or a short 10 sec video format. when im sleeping im simply just not aware pure nothingness like after death,nothing.i dont know why i cant remember my dreams or maybe i dont even dream.. but it could be the reason that i lack creativity? or i dont experience too much thing to have material for dreams?? i have absolutely no idea.. if anyone experiences the same let me know

I have studied many saints/masters , i have also witnessed how my own life is going. I have concluded there are only 2 valid options. 1. Your higher self/astral self plans 90-100% of your life, meaning this body is just a machine/vr headset. Imagine most advanced alien civillization that has a technology like this, and then you have your god/astral self , the technology of the astral self will be far more advanced than that of the alien civillization. The human life has been created specifically how your higher self wanted it to go with its ups/downs and it just plays out like a movie. Remember that "higher consciousness" or "higher technology" always overlooks the lower. (look at it as your higher self having gods shelf with different experiences/constructs) that are ready/made available that it wants to experience. (picture) Also most of you do not understand how severely and in lack you are in creativity, your ego might be given/programmed with a tiny pixel of creativity so that you might think you're an intelligent being. But in fact as Leo has said you are all like rats within a creation that you cant comprehend. 2. This is the highest consciousness i have ever reached by stopping my own heart under the influence of LSD and seeing into nothingness. All lifes or point of views that you have are different types of dreams within yourself/God. The main and ultimate reason that you decide to dream or escape into a dream is because at the highest possible consciousness level you become aware that there is no sleep/ that there is no body/ you are just consciousness vibrating and looking into the infinite nothingness not understanding why you exist and why you're infinitally forever aware and stuck within that potential/nothingness, for this reason you decide to escape yourself into a dream because then you're distracted from your infinite awareness without sleep.

I think I want the fulness of God that sometimes is reveled to me on psychedelics. When I'm sitting in an empty room and doing nothing I feel like nothing. Like cold and empty nothingness without the infinite love component. This emptiness doesn't feel like satisfaction.

Its true, most of what ppl are doing with their time, beside eating, sleeping, working and reproducing, is distraction, its not only from Loneliness, but from feeling a sense of nothingness or boredom... You only feel Bored because You do not know what Life is Experientially, Boredom is a clear sign that You are not really Alive, or Living, Your just Existing, which for a Human Being is a Tragedy, since we are the most capable live forms to realize what Life Truly Is about! If You change and transform Yourself, You'll never feel lonely again, You'll feel a complete connection with Everything around You, everything in Existence if You want to go that far its there for You to explore, its up to You how much connection You want to feel and experience..

That'll be 2000 bucks please, you drank a lot of nothingness there, sir. Sorry, we gotta pay the bills. Should've drank your own nothingness, pal!

Error: Even said post is not real and is from nothingness. Error: beep beep error again even these words nothing. Even the word nothing is nothing. lol.

A seeker of Truth walks into a bar… The bartender says, What’ll it be? The seeker replies, “I’ll have… reality.” The bartender shrugs and says, Sorry, we’re out of reality. Only nothingness on tap. The seeker nods, smiles, and says, “Perfect… I’ve been searching for that all my life." the seeker happily sipping nothingness, realizing the whole bar, the bartender, even themselves, was just a concept the whole time. 🫠😏

You'll develop a sense for it. Health, logistical considerations, and such are factors, but secondary. It is a feeling that now's not the right time. I haven't tripped in nearly 3 months, unusually long for me. There has been a primal instinct beyond any reason that right now I don't want or need to see what God will show me. Several times I was about to inject myself and withdrew at the last second. This shit is so tricky, supposedly I pursue understanding no matter the cost, so such a situation can generate doubt and self-gaslighting. Gotta remember it's a long game, a timely strategic retreat is the wisest move. Then again some instances require ignoring every alarm bell and flooring the gas, no reverse gear. Right-o, in fact make it a priority. Get to the bottom of why you're on this path in the first place, without a concrete answer you won't be able to endure its hardest moments. Perfectly self-consistent logical chains can come from just thinking through it, i.e. interconnecting Truth, Love, Nothingness, Goodness, Will, Infinity. Huge advantages on a practical level too.

1. There is no such thing as "at the beginning of time". 2. God is also absolute nothingness 3. Will to die and will to live are both alive in us because we are both nothing and something

Heres how it went for me the order is a little fuzzy This is kind of how it goes but in no specific orders: No Self realization (Enlightenment- ego death) The mystical wind - (spirit) Bliss - Divinity- amazing- miraculous- godlike - mystical Infinity - (The God Wind - Absolure Infinity - reeling on the ground for momma. You are Infinity and Infinity is reality. As a result of Infinity - its Consciousness - Consciousness continues to expand encompassing all. Its a dream. Everything is ideas not material reality. Mind blowing Nothingness. You are Absolutely Nothing ..as a result of Infinity (Devastating a feeling of complete emptiness) Complete Omniscience - grasping it all. Wonderful. You grasp it all in one go. God realization - You are God and are dreaming the whole thing. All of it is yours. Satisfying. Complete Oneness Solpsism) self and other duality collapses - it really hits you now. Yeah you were God. But you're fucking God. Like that's it. There's nothing outside of you.. Beautiful but terrifying. Ego returns. Somehow keep your sanity.

• "Will to Die": His philosophy, influenced by Schopenhauer but far more extreme, centered on the idea that the fundamental driving force of the universe is a "Will to Die" (Wille zum Tode), the reverse of Schopenhauer's "Will to Live." • "God's Suicide": Mainländer theorized that at the beginning of time, a unitary God (or Monad) chose to commit suicide out of a desire for absolute nothingness, shattering itself into the time-bound fragments that constitute the universe. In this view, existence itself is the decaying corpse of God, and all life carries an inherent, unconscious desire for annihilation as the ultimate "redemption." • Redemption: For Mainländer, death was the desired liberation, and the purpose of humanity and all existence was to collectively aim for peaceful extinction, or "cosmic euthanasia."

@pursuitofspirit better than nothing 😆 But what do you mean by "trapped in state of consciousness" Trapped in a state of myself? Dufuck? 🤣 I am consciousness! That insight is about how nothingness is conscious. Its nothing to cry about, we dont feel bad in deep sleep when all content goes, not even bored, but also definitely not tired of being.

Nothing can actually be in denial of anything because "denial of" suggests subject/object relationship which isn't really happening. There are no subjects there are no objects only appears that way. There is no me to deny God. Everything is everything and everything is nothing. There is no anything to be anything. There is just what's appearing. It's all empty, VOID. There is only nothingness which appears as everything. Appearances aren't real; nothing is. So me being in denial of God is an idea that nothing is being.

Thats my question. My guess is that is death. You said one of these days that you can shoot yourself in the head and even then you will be more conscious (of something like that). So my point is: whats the phenomenology of that? Pure Nothingness? Just like when we sleep? But then, is that being conscious? I dont get how can you be conscious when there is nothing. Does it makes sense?

This is my experience as well, and from this perspective; consciousness would still be absolute? The nature of consciousness is simply such that, if it has nothing to be aware of, its not aware of its own existence. so "nothingness" is still consciousness, just without content

Beautiful song Bastard of the cross relentlessly Strike fear preaching of his coming here Scriptures, twisted words to provocate Rapture from the lord your god so great BASTARDS OF CHRIST - DIE!!!! He fucked himself to save you - put to death, masochist For this his word berate truth - agonized, prophecized Revive the book of fiction - blasphemy, gluttony, to deceive you and me In battled disposition - hang the bitch on the cross Entitle his convictions - blasphemous, lunatic your heart is full of hatred - BASTARDS DIE, FUCK YOUR CHRIST, WILL SURVIVE, KILL YOURSELF........DIE!!!!!!!!!! Bastard, for your god you compromise Do without, search the truth you'll never find Scriptures offer little to relate Laughter from the lord into your face BASTARDS OF CHRIST - DIE!!!! You think your god will save who - I will see, just believe You fool, not true, no thank you - enemy of the cross His word installs deception - pray to god, not for me, for yourself, soon you'll see You'll die for your religion - holy shit, pacifist Untrue with choices given - nothing won, you are dead Describe the holy vision - BLACKING OUT, FINAL BREATH, MEET WITH DEATH, NOTHINGNESS, DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, there is Nothingness. But since there's nothing there it passes in an instant. Only dreams have a sense of time and substance. You escape into nothingness when you sleep but you don't even feel it since there's nothing to feel.

The Love-Making Process of Consciousness is a higher process than even time itself. The only thing that's not a process is ABSOLUTE TRUTH - which is identical with ABSOLUTE NOTHINGNESS - out of which all of it arises. But that - I call it Unground - remains forever unknowable and thus turns the whole cosmos into a living, breathing & dancing Mystery. But God still got some Aces up Her sleeve, don't worry.

@Leo Gura i had an experience on 4-5 tabs of LSD like 400-600 UG don't remember, i got so conscious that i could focus on my heart and then see it infront of me with eyes closed (the black screen) was gone. I decided to stop it because i knew there was no death, and i got into the nothingness/god head and felt i was there before. Anyway my question is, aren't you afraid that somebody might do it too and in your reality you might view it as them dying(when they actually didn't) . Or do i not understand something?

Well Truth to be told in my awakening there was only me.I experienced myself as Infinity of Love ,Goodness,Intelligence . I experienced Void which was timeless and I was there for Infinite amount of time just me alone.It was very solipsistic experience .Nothingness amd Infinity was one and the same,Inner and outter are the same.I was procecting the world from my eyes and everything is imagined. I experienced myself as God and was really feeling it.