Migue Lonas

Not true.

Zero experience and avoiding girls will grow you as a man? This guy got it completely backward, what a joke. First, grow a pair of balls to talk and flirt with the hottest girls around, look them deep in the eyes, and lead them to bed. Then, learn to remain grounded while doing so. After that, you may have the right to argue that girls are distracting from your growth as a man.

Thank you for your work. I completely understand why you act the way you do. It can be extremely tricky to balance masculine and feminine compassion. Especially when your work is so out of the normal unconscious state, that it requires serious extreme wake-up calls and measures to cut through the bullshit, yet deep down it is all Love. If I am to give feedback, then it is not necessarily about your communication and the use of language, but about the fact that you could transform this place for more serious, mature, & open-minded people. But that is my bias. And from what I've seen lately, you are anyways probably taking more and more action toward this transformation. This would itself fix a lot of the need to communicate so harshly, which you probably would rather not practice. I love learning from you. Thank you.

At this point, to me, this just seems like word games. I seriously don't think that Leo is talking about girls getting hundreds of Ks and millions just by purely existing and breathing the air. They gotta put in some work, if not into practical work, then at least into being smart and playing their cards right, strategic-wise, cunning-wise, manipulative-wise. You can put it this way: as a hot girl, you are given opportunities that you wouldn't otherwise get. And these opportunities can be worth millions. It is upto you, whether you capitalize on them or not. If you do, you gotta put in some work. But without these opportunities to begin with, no amount of work is gonna bring you millions.

Go deeper. How do you build a social circle? By cold approaching people. And cold approaching is game itself already. Also, running a social circle itself is also game, if done correctly. If all you are doing is just being passively in the social circle without any intentions, any leadership, any proactiveness, and without any game, then you are mostly just wasting your time, both in terms of getting intimacy and in terms of growth. Learning game is crucial for men's development. Healthy game. I say this from 10 years of experience in practicing inner and outer game, indirectly and directly (being in relationships & being single in the field). I have studied a ton of guys who practices game and who doesn't. If they don't practice game and they are not a natural, then there is a huge difference (charisma, attractiveness, results etc.) compared to the ones who do practice game. There is a reason Leo has spent 5-10 years practicing this, even though he could have been spending that time doing much more meaningful stuff.

Here are Leo's words that I am using in this context: ''A pair of tits is not worth billions of dollars. But it is worth tens to hundreds of thousands. Maybe even millions if you play it right.'' Obviously, you are not making 100s of thousands and millions if all you are doing is just sitting at home with your ass, or just standing pretty in the streets. But if you play it right (read: smart & hard), you can make millions with your boobs. I could imagine that there are cases where a really good-looking girl can make millions by just being smart and cunning, and not necessarily even having to work that hard at all. But these cases are probably so rare, that we don't need to really talk about them here.

You are starting to remind me a bit of the cat-girl (dont remember her username) with whom we have had a really extensive conversation about the male-female dynamic in this forum, in the past. And, the same underline problem here is that you are not a guy. So it can be pretty much impossible for you to truly understand what it takes. ''Just socialize and you dont even need much game, an organic attraction will eventually arise'' Sounds good in theory but in practice, this wastes an enormous amount of time + you don't really grow as an attractive, charming, strong, grounded man, which is the whole goal of learning healthy pickup and healthy self-improvement, and behold, we are in a self-improvement forum. It requires balls, strong core confidence, and groundedness to go up to a random girl in the streets and express your raw attraction towards her with your eye contact and smile, immediately make it man-to-woman, and flirt on the spot, then lead the conversation into a beautiful intimate connection emotionally and physically. This is the ultimate reward of this work, when done properly. Not, wasting a ton of time socially monkey-dancing around, that may or may not lead anywhere. Obviously, I am not demonizing socializing itself here. Gotta learn to socialize with people in general and have fun too. But the bigger question here is does it lead anywhere? Does it lead to intimate connections reliably? Or are you just wasting ton of your time? Does it lead to much growth as a strong, grounded, attractive man who can lead? Hence, the intentional practice of game can't be underplayed.

There is something called onlyfans.com Girls are making hundreds of thousands and millions just with their boobs and looks. Then, if we want to take something more socially acceptable, then look at the social media influencers that make their 100Ks and millions with mostly just their looks. Looks definitely help girls a ton, to deny that is just straight-up silly.

Show her this video, should get her started in changing her view.

That shit grows you the most :). Basically, you are forced to socialize with new ppl because your other choice is to look like a creep lurking around. But learning this is hella rewarding: being able to just hit any random place alone in any random city and make friends. —- Funnily enough, I am transitioning into becoming a coach / mentor as well in the world of self-development and game. Basically self-mastery for men. I’ll try to make it as healthy and conscious as possible. Something like what Owen is doing nowadays. The plan is to become financially free this way, then I will probably transition into teaching pure philosophy and spirituality. We will see! Perhaps for the next 5-10 years I’ll do this, gather perhaps 5-10 million, travel around the world and socialize + pick up girls with my gf (we share the same vision & she is also a coach, but for women). I’ll exhaust this material world completely and slowly I’ll probably transition into teaching higher stuff. ——- What about you? Would love to hear about your game career, career & life purpose & vision in life! P.S. You’re def one of the more mature people in this forum, with a good balance of playfulness and seriousness & wisdom, love it!

Hmm, let me try. I don't have much time so I'll really try to make it brief: Started watching Owen's (then Tyler) YT videos when I was 15 (13 years ago). When I was 16, I got deeper into studying game, there was a blog by a guy called Shark. At 17, I learned about Osho, through this Shark's forum actually. Someone mentioned Osho in the comments and from there on, there was no turning back from the personal development & the spiritual world. At this point, I was actually quite depressed. A ton of pressure from my parents and relatives (Asian culture) to succeed in school, and also a ton of pressure from my own dream of succeeding in football. So Osho was actually my way out, and I would probably not have resonated with him, was it not for all the pain of failing and the pressure that comes with it. And oh yeah, the first heartbreak from my high school sweetheart when I was 18, so that all just fueled my desire to learn game to get a new gf (personal development, game) & the desire to understand my pain and ease it (spirituality). Funnily enough, learning spirituality in all of this mess actually made my skin much thicker, when I first started approaching girls and getting rejected. I basically cared less thanks to Osho's teachings and of course, Owen's infields lol. Altho, looking back now, it was a bit toxic kinda nihilism relationship towards life to cope with the pain of rejection (you can maybe call it by-passing to a degree), rather than the abundance that I got now (spiritually, psychologically, skillfully & result wise). So, that's for the background. From 18 onwards, I started going out to clubs, alone. None of my friends (from high school) was down to take this nearly as seriously as I was, so I started going alone. I basically went 4-5 times a week, alone, as an 18-year-old kid. Kinda cool that I did it, now looking back. Def proud of my younger self! Around the same time (16-18), was when I seriously started contemplating life as well. What the hell is the point of all this? Why does any of the rejections even matter? Live your life to the fullest then! Awaken to your full potential! Side note: I'm pretty sure I bumped into Leo's videos when he was starting out on YT as well, but didn't resonate until a few years ago when I bumped into his Infinite Consciousness and God videos (the surprise I had on my face, since I had associated him with pickup videos from when he started out, or should I say, making girls squirt ahaha). From here on, for the next 10 years (18-28), I've been in 3 serious relationships + the one I was with when I was 17 (the last two are basically as hot and beautiful as you can get in Finland, inside and out, currently still together with the last one). Everytime I have been single, I've gone out 3-5 times a week, none stop. Minus the pandemic quarantines. Approached thousands, hooked up with too many I've lost count a long time ago. My charisma, confidence, groundedness, wittiness & social intelligence is at a level, I seriously don't even appreciate anymore. To me, it seems like I am not that big of a deal / developed / special, but when I observe guys in different places, I get reminded. ------------------------ Overall, I wasn't the worst case when I started out (the way Leo was - not my biggest weakness). But the development from there to here is extraordinary, I cannot really even describe it. And without the spiritual background, I don't know if I would have been able to pull through. Also, Owen's talks about social conditioning went very well with Osho's talks about social conditioning. They kept reminding me that I am being conditioned to be a much lower self of my full potential. This journey, like anything meaningful in life, is mostly inner game. The relationship you have with yourself. Probably 85-95% of game is inner game + logistics. The rest is nitty-gritty technicals. I recommend this path to every guy, no excuses, as long as your health can handle it, because it is brutal and exhausting. But absolutely worth it. Aside from spirituality, this has been the most rewarding journey in my life & has grown me the most. And it can be a lot of fun! Like Leo said, you just gotta make it fun. Have the proper positive mindset and find good wings. For all the people who are starting out and thinking that this is silly because you are so spiritual and above it, is just by-passing. My closest friend back in the day was like this and I had to drop him cuz I just couldn't stand all the bullshit excuses and by-passing. He could have become a really good wingman and a friend for life, but no. Anyway, thanks for your question and for giving me the chance to reflect on this once again!

Nightgame has developed me so much that I don't even recognize my past self anymore. At this point, I have taken this growth completely for granted.

I wish you all the best and as Leo said, focus on providing massive value to people. That is how you gain freedom and with the freedom, you can then put 100% into self-actualization and awakening.

Honestly sounds like a bunch of excuses for fear of succeeding with girls. And this fear can stem from many places.

@Nilsi Bro just the fact of all the devilry shit they have done and promotes says enough. Doesn't matter if they are the ultimate ''developed'' people or not. Look at Owen Cook for Healthy Ultimate Developed stage Orange + a bridge to spirituality for normies. This is why unmoderated free speech is stupid as fuck and dangerous, and you and Tate fans are the epitome of why that is. The amount of Tate fans in this forum is quite shocking.