Why Absolute Awakening Is An Illusion Per Se

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

I stated that even after an awakening, you will think you have reached a global maxima but are really at a local maxima. Trips can convince you that you are more awake than you are. Leo already retracts things that he has claimed with absolute certainty in the past, so what makes this new claim any different?

There is just one awakening, when you realize that your mind, all your mental world, is inside of reality and, then you stop trying to contain the reality in your mental world, then you do a step back and identify with the reality. The reality couldn't be more real, so you can't be more awake, it's total, and all time, but it could be deeper.  

Imagine you are sleeping, then you wake up. You are already awake, you can't be more awake, but you can spend the day talking nonsense with your friends or delving into the structure of reality, learn quantum physics, astronomy, travel to other galaxies and learn 25 alien languages. Who is more awake, the one who spent the day in a brothel taking cocaine or the one who studied quantum physics? They are both exactly the same awake, it's just that one is more idiotic than the other...although that depends on a subjective opinion

Edited March 4 by Breakingthewall

[James123]

47 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Does it ultimately matter if you’re right or wrong?

Definitely not. Because, the one who thinks that these are sentences, including my words, are is the illusion in the first place. You are already what you are. Just lost yourself within so called thought process that's all. 

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Just lost yourself within so called thought process that's all. 

We’re all in the lost and found pile 

[r0ckyreed]

11 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Doesn't all this fly out the window if it's all imaginary. If the brain is a figment of consciousness then consciousness is beyond the brain. Seems like you're trying to rationalize and reason your way into this phenomenon, but ill leave it up to Razaard to answer you because I know he will. You're making good points but if its a dream then reason and logic won't cut it in everything and there will be glitches.

You make a good point. But we have to pinpoint what exactly is meant by “imaginary.” The insight that the brain is imaginary is Leo’s insight not mine. I do not like the term imagination because it implies you can unimagine it and that it is not “important”. You cannot unimagine your brain because you are using your brain to imagine in the first place. And of course, the brain is created by the Universe. What Leo means by the brain is imaginary is not the face value meaning of what you/I might think. The brain is part of the design of the Universe in the same way that planets, gravity and photosynthesis are part of the Universe. 
 

Consciousness is both beyond and not beyond the brain. The brain is a part of Consciousness in a strange loop way. The way the Universe designed it, you could not be conscious and process these words that I am typing without a brain. If your brain gets damaged, that directly impacts your level of consciousness because the brain itself is also a figment of consciousness. The brain and consciousness are connected as one, which is why both can impact each other. The real question would be why the Universe designed it to where we need a body at all to experience life. My answer would be that without a body, we could not learn the fullest lessons of love and suffering. If we were just ethereal spirits with no body, our experience of suffering would be limited.
 

In regards to reason, I would say that it is indeed limited, but it is one of the highest ways of knowing besides intuition and innate knowledge. Reason is the structured/linear mental process of “making sense” of reality and our intuition.

On your last point, I could very well argue that meditation and psychedelics are also part of the dream no different from reason. Reason is a tool of our mind and an important part of our ability to have knowledge and communicate. We have innate/intuitive knowledge and we also have knowledge derived from our experiences and rationality.

Edited March 5 by r0ckyreed

[Razard86]

15 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

I answered this objection in my original post. I stated that even after an awakening, you will think you have reached a global maxima but are really at a local maxima. Trips can convince you that you are more awake than you are. Leo already retracts things that he has claimed with absolute certainty in the past, so what makes this new claim any different?

I also suggested that the human mind will always have constraints and limitations on it that you cannot imagine while still being in the human form. The thing with a DMT trip is you might have a cessation for a period, but your mind and its limits still exist. People with NDEs may have a cessation, but when they come back, they are also bringing back the limitations of consciousness and insight. Just think about it. On a DMT trip, you can reach a great insight so great that your mind has trouble understanding it and sometimes forgets it or is unable to understand it like a complex dream. When you dream, you are entering a different state and when you wake up, sometimes insights from that other state can become inaccessible now. Survival puts limitations on insight. That is why I said physical death is the global maxima because that is an awakening with 0 interference from survival. Most people don’t understand that the brain is designed for survival and not awakening. Good luck changing millions of years of evolution through DMT. Your human consciousness cannot unimagine the design of Universal Consciousness. It isn’t going to work. You can have insights into the nature of reality but they will be a local maxima if at best because if you could awaken global maximally, you would no longer be human. To survive is to be at a local maxima. I am not sure how else I can explain this and have it make sense.

Your not understanding what I am saying. 

1. Infinity of Gods is a global maxima. Leo has yet to find an awakening beyond that one because it is literally the process of beyonding. What this means is it goes on forever so once you discover that you have discovered that the limit is the lack of a limit. You don't need a physical death for this to be a global maxima because you just became aware of Totality.

2. Now Infinity of Gods is not different than Oneness it is just another way of Looking at Oneness. So when he became aware of Absolute Infinity he discovered that there was nothing else there but him. That was ALSO Global Maxima. Because you cannot go beyond Absolute Infinity.

Many people who have not seriously sat down and understood what Infinity of Gods was communicating would think that Infinity of Gods contradicts Absolute Solipsism. It doesn't. Both awakenings are total because you cannot create MORE of Infinity. So there was no contradiction. All Infinity of Gods explains is how your experience is the Absolute and how you trick yourself by creating relative. It also explains how you can have an experience when you leave my house per say and get in your car and drive somewhere but I cannot know that experience unless I access your Godhead and imagine that experience. God creates partitions in its Absolute mind and makes those partitions Absolute onto themselves. This collapses the paradox and proves that you are the ABSOLUTE.

Both awakenings are total because nothing was decreased, all that happened was more clarity was given. Had he never had his Infinity of Gods awakening he would have still been at a Global Maxima. This is why awakening to Infinity automatically puts you at the Global Maxima. You become aware that there is no distinction between anything, lack of distinction dissolves all relative. This is what Love is in its purest form. Once you discover this, you are Global by default. And here is the kicker. YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN GLOBAL, you are just becoming aware that you are.

[Razard86]

On 3/4/2024 at 2:38 AM, Princess Arabia said:

Why is this starting to feel like when you used to be in Church and they would say don't question anything  just listen and obey. I'm not trying to get enlightened, I'm just asking questions, questions no one can answer. You all just telling me to never mind the questions just see for yourself and it will be revealed. Well, nothing will be revealed to a mute.

Don't fall for people saying it's not communicable. This is also false. If it wasn't able to be communicated....it couldn't be pointed too. The correct way of saying is, you cannot give someone awakening in the form of words. Now you can trigger an awakening in someone with words, or you can point someone in the right direction with words, but you cannot transmit awakening in words.

But it can be communicated, but only in relative sense. Also someone can have an awakening and still be confused, talk to someone who has integrated it and then gain an understanding because they have the awakening to put together with the communication. This is the only reason Spirituality is discussed at all. 

If communication couldn't transport something we would be wasting our time. With that said, it is good sometimes to drop everything you have been told and investigate for yourself to see if you get the same results. Just to check the understanding of those you have studied and learned from. But yeah anyone you see that is going around demonizing communication and understanding is a parrot and has not penetrated deeply enough.

With all that said, there are some awakenings....that are so bizarre, there is a disconnect in trying to communicate it in language but that is due to two issues. The novelty of that awakening and how extremely paradigm shattering it is, and the inability of your human intelligence to make sense of what it is being shown as a result. It would take multiple trips to get rid of the novelty and to allow the human intelligence to make sense of it for it to be transmitted. 

For example look at the chakra system, do you know how long it must have taken them to construct that system of knowledge? It doesn't show up in any microscopes, but yet it exists and you can become conscious that the chakra system exists. When I discovered the third eye was actually real and not some made up myth it blew my mind on how ignorant the West is about the human body. We are still in the dark about a lot of things when it comes to the human body. There is way too much close-mindedness in Science and I have no clue how that happens when Science is supposed to be about exploration and investigation. 

Anyway the core of this message is, never let anyone tell you it's one way, it is always absolutely both ways the kicker is only that Reality may be leaning to one side more presently. 

Edited March 5 by Razard86

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Don't fall for people saying it's not communicable. This is also false. If it wasn't able to be communicated....it couldn't be pointed too. The correct way of saying is, you cannot give someone awakening in the form of words. Now you can trigger an awakening in someone with words, or you can point someone in the right direction with words, but you cannot transmit awakening in words.

But it can be communicated, but only in relative sense. Also someone can have an awakening and still be confused, talk to someone who has integrated it and then gain an understanding because they have the awakening to put together with the communication. This is the only reason Spirituality is discussed at all. 

If communication couldn't transport something we would be wasting our time. With that said, it is good sometimes to drop everything you have been told and investigate for yourself to see if you get the same results. Just to check the understanding of those you have studied and learned from. But yeah anyone you see that is going around demonizing communication and understanding is a parrot and has not penetrated deeply enough.

With all that said, there are some awakenings....that are so bizarre, there is a disconnect in trying to communicate it in language but that is due to two issues. The novelty of that awakening and how extremely paradigm shattering it is, and the inability of your human intelligence to make sense of what it is being shown as a result. It would take multiple trips to get rid of the novelty and to allow the human intelligence to make sense of it for it to be transmitted. 

For example look at the chakra system, do you know how long it must have taken them to construct that system of knowledge? It doesn't show up in any microscopes, but yet it exists and you can become conscious that the chakra system exists. When I discovered the third eye was actually real and not some made up myth it blew my mind on how ignorant the West is about the human body. We are still in the dark about a lot of things when it comes to the human body. There is way too much close-mindedness in Science and I have no clue how that happens when Science is supposed to be about exploration and investigation. 

Anyway the core of this message is, never let anyone tell you it's one way, it is always absolutely both ways the kicker is only that Reality may be leaning to one side more presently. 

Thank you for this explanation. I am very curious by nature and Spirituality is something I'm still curious about and probably always will be, especially pertaining to the existential nature of existence. I want to have a deeper understanding of certain aspects, even though I recognize the power of not knowing. You explained it perfectly - the balancing of the two. It's just the same phrases people keep repeating and the same Spiritual lingo, at least you give examples and break down the language barrier a bit for a deeper understanding. 

[Bazooka Jesus]

@Princess Arabia

Just be careful with spoon-fed answers. They are never the real thing... even though they might point towards it.

[Princess Arabia]

4 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

@Princess Arabia

Just be careful with spoon-fed answers. They are never the real thing... even though they might point towards it.

I understand that. I don't just go with whatever I'm told. Thanks for the wise advice. I will say thank you and then contemplate it for myself by going within and using my experiences to validate.

Edited March 5 by Princess Arabia

[Bandman]

yes, basically you are asking whether we can ever reach the state of Infinite awakening, the highest state possible for Consciousness itself. This question you are posing follows by itself from Leo's theology of God and Awakening. 

Maybe if physical death occurs, that will happen. but how can you be so sure of that? if it's "turtles all the way down", maybe physically dying will just end you up in another dream and not awakening at all.

The highest state seems so impossible to reach because how can there be an end of reality and consciousness. yet that infinity is the state you are refering to. 

it seems impossible to even discuss this tbh. the only thing i can think of it that if you divide by 0, you should end up with infinity on the graph, even though following the actual graphed line up to infinity would take an infinite amount of time. but by making x = 0, instantly you'd be at the highest level.

[Bazooka Jesus]

10 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

I understand that. I don't just go with whatever I'm told. Thanks for the wise advice. I will say thank you and then contemplate it for myself by going within and using my experiences to validate.

Thar's very good.

I know it can be frustrating when someone constantly pulls the rug away from under your feet whenever you think that you finally (more or less) "got it" and keeps contradicting the explanations that others are giving you in (more or less) good faith, but it's for a good reason. Here is a post from another thread that explains why I am so adamant about this... in case you haven't already read it:

And finally... be not only careful with whatever stories others are telling you, but also with you own interpretations of your experience(s). You see a lot of people on here saying "I know what I am saying is true because I have experienced it!"  Well, nope. What you are saying is what you are saying, and what you experience is what you experience; these are two different things (albeit what you are saying is of course a part of the experience of THIS). Your (egoic) interpretation of experience is a mental fabrication; absolute reality isn't.

 

Edited March 6 by Bazooka Jesus

[r0ckyreed]

On 3/4/2024 at 8:42 PM, Razard86 said:

Your not understanding what I am saying. 

1. Infinity of Gods is a global maxima. Leo has yet to find an awakening beyond that one because it is literally the process of beyonding. What this means is it goes on forever so once you discover that you have discovered that the limit is the lack of a limit. You don't need a physical death for this to be a global maxima because you just became aware of Totality.

2. Now Infinity of Gods is not different than Oneness it is just another way of Looking at Oneness. So when he became aware of Absolute Infinity he discovered that there was nothing else there but him. That was ALSO Global Maxima. Because you cannot go beyond Absolute Infinity.

Many people who have not seriously sat down and understood what Infinity of Gods was communicating would think that Infinity of Gods contradicts Absolute Solipsism. It doesn't. Both awakenings are total because you cannot create MORE of Infinity. So there was no contradiction. All Infinity of Gods explains is how your experience is the Absolute and how you trick yourself by creating relative. It also explains how you can have an experience when you leave my house per say and get in your car and drive somewhere but I cannot know that experience unless I access your Godhead and imagine that experience. God creates partitions in its Absolute mind and makes those partitions Absolute onto themselves. This collapses the paradox and proves that you are the ABSOLUTE.

Both awakenings are total because nothing was decreased, all that happened was more clarity was given. Had he never had his Infinity of Gods awakening he would have still been at a Global Maxima. This is why awakening to Infinity automatically puts you at the Global Maxima. You become aware that there is no distinction between anything, lack of distinction dissolves all relative. This is what Love is in its purest form. Once you discover this, you are Global by default. And here is the kicker. YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN GLOBAL, you are just becoming aware that you are.

1. I would say that just because you haven’t found anything beyond doesn’t mean you have reached the end and can say you have reached a global maxima. A lot of people claim to reach a global maxima, so how is this any different than someone who is self-deceived? I don’t think my point has been answered that there are infinite degrees of awakening and Solipsism, Infinity Gods, and Alien Consciousness are not global maximas because there are still infinite more insights to be had. Those are local maximas because those insights are still blind men touching an elephant.

2. You cannot go beyond absolute infinity, but just the fact that Leo is still in the finite human form suggests he is not in absolute infinity because he even said that absolute infinity is death. 

3. What is really frustrating and what really pissed me off is that I already suggested in another post that it is possible that other minds exist, but that we are so sovereign that we are not aware of them. and then Leo basically comes out with a video about what me and others have been saying as objections to solipsism, which is that just because I cannot experience another point of view does not mean that it doesn’t exist. it could be the case that God has multiple bubbles of consciousness. In his perception video, he uses the analogy of the sponge to indicate that we are just one bubble within the sponge, and then he contradicts and says that we are the whole sponge and not just the bubble, and that there are no other bubbles. But I get it that as his insight gets deeper, that he will start to contradict things that he said, because he’s after what is true rather than being right and consistent.

I think infinity of gods does contradict solipsism, because he said that I am the only consciousness that exist, and then he says, in that video that there are other consciousness that my consciousness cannot access because they are sovereign like mine, which is basically the argument I made in my post as an argument against solipsism. Honestly, as soon as the infinity of God‘s episode came out, I stopped taking Leo’s insights seriously because he would make bold claims with what seemed like 100% certainty and then he makes another video seemingly contradicting that. And then, he would retract it later. It’s almost better to be humble and admit, I don’t know than to make bold assertions that you find out later were wrong. but maybe I’m missing something and maybe making bold assertions is part of the process of discovering that you are wrong in the first place so I am open to that idea. But it still leaves problems for the viewer who takes Leo seriously.

Edited March 6 by r0ckyreed

[Princess Arabia]

12 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Your (egoic) interpretation of experience is a mental fabrication; absolute reality isn't.

Yeah sure. I get what you're saying, and I agree. One question. If I'm just experiencing without interpretation and putting my own meaning because of the mind's interpretation, is that still not to be trusted. Are you saying that because of my human nature, I'll always be apt to interpreting everything I experience because it's innate that I do that, or can I be aware and consciously not interpret and then see it for what it is? Hope that's clear.

[Bazooka Jesus]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yeah sure. I get what you're saying, and I agree. One question. If I'm just experiencing without interpretation and putting my own meaning because of the mind's interpretation, is that still not to be trusted. Are you saying that because of my human nature, I'll always be apt to interpreting everything I experience because it's innate that I do that, or can I be aware and consciously not interpret and then see it for what it is? Hope that's clear.

Well, sure... the interpretations are going to keep coming in; as long as you are human, there will be mental stories popping up, otherwise you wouldn't stay alive. The trick is to simply recognize the interpretation as such and not give it any more significance than it actually deserves.

If you watch a movie, do you (mis)take the content of the movie for absolute truth? Of course not. It's "just a movie", right? Well, why give mental stories any more significance? They are just appearances floating by, like the fly that's buzzing past your head when you are sitting on the porch in your rocking chair. (Which doesn't mean that some of them aren't useful... the thought "I better pay my rent tomorrow" definitely serves a purpose, but you wouldn't build an entire cosmological worldview on that thought, would you?) So, don't push them away, don't cling to them, just let them pass by... or let them stay, if they want to. Why should it be any of your business what they are up to? They aren't yours!

 

Edited March 6 by Bazooka Jesus

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Well, sure... the interpretations are going to keep coming in; as long as you are human, there will be mental stories popping up, otherwise you wouldn't stay alive. The trick is to simply recognize the interpretation as such and not give it any more significance than it actually deserves.

If you watch a movie, do you (mis)take the content of the movie for absolute truth? Of course not. It's "just a movie", right? Well, why give mental stories any more significance? They are just appearances floating by, like the fly that's buzzing past your head when you are sitting on the porch in your rocking chair. (Which doesn't mean that some of them aren't useful... the thought "I better pay my rent tomorrow" definitely serves a purpose, but you wouldn't build an entire cosmological worldview on that thought, would you?) So, don't push them away, don't cling to them, just let them pass by... or let them stay, if they want to. Why should it be any of your business what they are up to? They aren't yours!

 

Yes my Prince. Don't you build a cosmological worldview on that thought. Don't cling to the idea of my calling you my Prince, or do.😜

Edited March 6 by Princess Arabia

[Bazooka Jesus]

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yes my Prince. Don't you build a cosmological worldview on that thought. Don't cling to the idea of my calling you my Prince, or do.😜

😁😘