What does it mean to be Conscious?

[Ishanga]

Just starting another Thread, to not derail another one..

OBLer says in response to a post I wrote - "@Ishanga No He (Leo) doesnt Claim that. Where does he write such things?

I think you have some phantasy about enlightened people. Even if you are high conscious you can suffer like every human from stress or whatever.

Yes high conscious people will probably not suffer from lower consciousness issues like obese and addiction. But they will not be immune against all kind of things like cancer, pollution of environment or if the body lacks energy."

In all his video's he claims to be of a higher Consciousness, that he is in this space and is sharing his advice on how other can get there, most due to his psychedelic experience of being God, Omnipresent, Omnipotent and such things, yes he has done other more traditional practice but they didn't give him the intensity of experience the psychedelics have..

 

Now for me what does it mean to be Conscious? It means I have Free Will, or more of it available to my Awareness and ability to Utilize in my life, that means on a basic terms no Stress Response, which is the cause of many health problems, so it takes care of itself...Suffering is a CHOICE, Pain will happen in life, situations will arise that You do not want to have happen, but Suffering it is basically non Accepting of what is, resistance to what is, we can choose to accept or resist, its an aspect of Free Will and higher Consciousness.

Also, one has Clarity to perceive Reality as it is, with no judgement or prejudice attached to it, yes we need to Discern what is safe or unsafe, healthy or unhealthy for our survival to go on day after day, but with higher Consciousness in our Awareness day to day, we judge less based on the conditioning of our Minds, Ideologies picked up, Teachings and past Experiences influencing how we perceive life Right Now, this doesn't happen as much and has less affect when in a Higher Consciousness Awareness..

 

If OBLer is correct, then what is the point of Higher Consciousness in a Human Being, if You still can Suffer, have bad health, and lack energy and so forth? No point in my book if we still lack no control over our health, and state of Being/Experience...

 

[Leo Gura]

@Ishanga You've got spirituality backwards. You don't gain control, you lose control. The illusion of control.

You will never control your health.

And the transcendence of suffering, if it is possible, is such a rare feat that very very few will achieve it.

The point of spirituality is the joy of being conscious for its own sake. Not to win prizes.

[Ishanga]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Ishanga You've got spirituality backwards. You don't gain control, you lose control. The illusion of control.

You will never control your health.

And the transcendence of suffering, if it is possible, is such a rare feat that very very few will achieve it.

The point of spirituality is the joy of being conscious for its own sake. Not to win prizes.

This is just a certain perspective from a POV of Consciousness, as we all have and are in many ways limited by.  I try to be open about it, yes fundamentally in the highest sort of way You are correct, there is no control or nothing to control in the Oneness realm, because there is no physicality to control, no mind and such things...but on this level of existence were we are, there is control because there is physicality, mind and such limitations, on this level we have Free Will..

The Body alone is designed for Health naturally, but we have a Mind that is connected with Body, Stress is resistance to What is, that is from the Mind, what we are, Life/God/Source, is not the Body or Mind, we use these tools to function on this Earth/Duality world, but we can have Enlightenment which is Realization of "We are Life" not the Body/Mind, with this comes our truest potential, with that comes natural Health, no resistance to Now, in this there is no control, but until then we have to work at it, strive and seek it (there is no seeking once there) and step by step have Free Will to have what we should have Naturally... 

[Razard86]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Ishanga You've got spirituality backwards. You don't gain control, you lose control. The illusion of control.

You will never control your health.

And the transcendence of suffering, if it is possible, is such a rare feat that very very few will achieve it.

The point of spirituality is the joy of being conscious for its own sake. Not to win prizes.

I was going to say you do gain control but you gain it by giving it away. I'll quote you in your Solipsism Video "There is no difference between everything because its all being done for you."

So you gain control with acceptance, and that is the end of suffering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KodrbVtWEZM

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

This is just a certain perspective from a POV of Consciousness, as we all have and are in many ways limited by.  I try to be open about it, yes fundamentally in the highest sort of way You are correct, there is no control or nothing to control in the Oneness realm, because there is no physicality to control, no mind and such things...but on this level of existence were we are, there is control because there is physicality, mind and such limitations, on this level we have Free Will..

In a sense you could say spirituality gives you better control because you are less fooled by self-deceptive thoughts and emotions and you are less egotistical and reactive. You also build better habits in the process and your mind matures and develops which meana you create less drama and problems for yourself.

3 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

The Body alone is designed for Health naturally

This is false.

3 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

with this comes our truest potential, with that comes natural Health

That's a nice spiritual fantasy.

[Razard86]

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

This is just a certain perspective from a POV of Consciousness, as we all have and are in many ways limited by.  I try to be open about it, yes fundamentally in the highest sort of way You are correct, there is no control or nothing to control in the Oneness realm, because there is no physicality to control, no mind and such things...but on this level of existence were we are, there is control because there is physicality, mind and such limitations, on this level we have Free Will..

The Body alone is designed for Health naturally, but we have a Mind that is connected with Body, Stress is resistance to What is, that is from the Mind, what we are, Life/God/Source, is not the Body or Mind, we use these tools to function on this Earth/Duality world, but we can have Enlightenment which is Realization of "We are Life" not the Body/Mind, with this comes our truest potential, with that comes natural Health, no resistance to Now, in this there is no control, but until then we have to work at it, strive and seek it (there is no seeking once there) and step by step have Free Will to have what we should have Naturally... 

List of things your human character did not control. What time period you were born in, what planet/solar system you were born on, the fact you were born human, how tall you eventually became (sure nutrition and rest played a role but that was determined by who raised you), what language you were taught, the quality of the level of your teachers, how much pollution you took into your body, the quality of the people you interacted with, what jobs are available in your environment, how much patience your mind has to tolerate things that annoy you, your ability to stay alert is also not determined by you but by your body.

So look above....how much control do you actually think you have? https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/

Humans don't have free will, their will is limited. Just like a video game character or a character in a movie doesn't have free will, their will is limited. God is free will, but the human construct is not free will. The human construct is given a portion of God's will and whatever lot it is given the smartest thing is to play that hand and accept it for what it is.

This isn't the nicest message that most want to hear in Spirituality. But it is what it is.

Edited February 11 by Razard86

[Jowblob]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Ishanga You've got spirituality backwards. You don't gain control, you lose control. The illusion of control.

You will never control your health.

And the transcendence of suffering, if it is possible, is such a rare feat that very very few will achieve it.

The point of spirituality is the joy of being conscious for its own sake. Not to win prizes.

Nobody will achieve it from my understanding, you're an eternal being  which means you have always existed yet you're still here and suffering. Isn't that obvious?

I was at the highest level of consciousness, the vibration/love/being/awareness still didn't stop my suffering because all was known why it had to be this way and i blinked from there to here again in no time. Being aware/conscious is suffering simple as that, sleep that isn't actually real is a mechanism that reliefs you temporary from all the suffering. 

But the day will come ones you get bored of your present dream, and you will try to escape it and suffer again then get lost in another dream and so on.

Edited February 11 by Jowblob

[Razard86]

1 minute ago, Jowblob said:

Nobody will achieve it from my understanding, you're an eternal being  which means you have always existed yet you're still here and suffering. Isn't that obvious?

I was at the highest level of consciousness, the vibration/love/being/awareness still didn't stop my suffering because all was known why it had to be this way and i blinked from there to here again in no time. Being aware/conscious is suffering simple as that, sleep that isn't actually real is a mechanism that reliefs you temporary from all the suffering.

I don't suffer. Negative thought patterns (and the belief in something being negative creates suffering). Now when I discuss suffering I am talking about mental suffering, obviously physical pain is something else. But I don't suffer because my mind is positive. I see the good in everything and have healthy relationships that support this mindset. 

So transcendence of suffering from the mental emotional aspect is possible.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Jowblob said:

But the day will come ones you get bored of your present dream, and you will try to escape it and suffer again then get lost in another dream and so on.

Our discussion was about suffering relative to this lifetime.

[Jowblob]

1 minute ago, Razard86 said:

I don't suffer. Negative thought patterns (and the belief in something being negative creates suffering). Now when I discuss suffering I am talking about mental suffering, obviously physical pain is something else. But I don't suffer because my mind is positive. I see the good in everything and have healthy relationships that support this mindset. 

So transcendence of suffering from the mental emotional aspect is possible.

Non suffering is only temporary, as long as you remain conscious you can't deny or escape change wherever you might be, because eventually you will always have something to question that's why you're here.

[Yousif]

21 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

This is just a certain perspective from a POV of Consciousness, as we all have and are in many ways limited by.  I try to be open about it, yes fundamentally in the highest sort of way You are correct, there is no control or nothing to control in the Oneness realm, because there is no physicality to control, no mind and such things...but on this level of existence were we are, there is control because there is physicality, mind and such limitations, on this level we have Free Will..

The Body alone is designed for Health naturally, but we have a Mind that is connected with Body, Stress is resistance to What is, that is from the Mind, what we are, Life/God/Source, is not the Body or Mind, we use these tools to function on this Earth/Duality world, but we can have Enlightenment which is Realization of "We are Life" not the Body/Mind, with this comes our truest potential, with that comes natural Health, no resistance to Now, in this there is no control, but until then we have to work at it, strive and seek it (there is no seeking once there) and step by step have Free Will to have what we should have Naturally... 

There’s no difference between the physical and the spiritual, there’s no difference in realms, all realms are one realm, and stress happens when you’re in the illusion that you’re doing it, not it’s doing you, are you breathing or is breathing happening? If you’re doing it, it’s a tiring and stressful thing, but if it’s happening by itself it’s endurable.

[Ishanga]

55 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

List of things your human character did not control. What time period you were born in, what planet/solar system you were born on, the fact you were born human, how tall you eventually became (sure nutrition and rest played a role but that was determined by who raised you), what language you were taught, the quality of the level of your teachers, how much pollution you took into your body, the quality of the people you interacted with, what jobs are available in your environment, how much patience your mind has to tolerate things that annoy you, your ability to stay alert is also not determined by you but by your body.

So look above....how much control do you actually think you have? https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/

Humans don't have free will, their will is limited. Just like a video game character or a character in a movie doesn't have free will, their will is limited. God is free will, but the human construct is not free will. The human construct is given a portion of God's will and whatever lot it is given the smartest thing is to play that hand and accept it for what it is.

This isn't the nicest message that most want to hear in Spirituality. But it is what it is.

Sadhguru talks about this, if You have mastery over Your Body alone, you will control 30% of your destiny, body and mind 60%, if You control the Energy system You will have 100% control of Your destiny, even after physical death you can control which body to be born in, if You want to come back and so forth, so its all a matter of how Conscious one is..

Free Will for me anyways has to do mostly with How I want to Experience Life, Joyfully or Miserably, an accident can still happen, any situation outside of our body can still happen, how I respond to it is 100% my responsibility and choice, that is the only control You will have and its available for Most all Human Beings, you just have to strive for it, its not a Fantasy as some may think or say:)

 

Edited February 11 by Ishanga

[Breakingthewall]

Being conscious means being open to the reality that you are. To do this you must be able to completely dissolve the structures of your mind at a given moment, but this does not mean that you will live permanently without structures. The structures close and cause suffering, but they are absolutely necessary to survive and not end up like a homless living among the rats. If you have a business to maintain your place in society and it starts to go wrong, you will suffer, and this suffering will make you try your hardest. This is how life works, suffering is not bad, it is your ally.

Now, it is essential for my be able at certain times, as often as possible, to set aside all structures and be in total depth. This is the beauty of life, what frees you and allows you to flow, create structures tailored to you, not imposed by others, and have a life full of energy and beauty. But let's not fool ourselves with control fantasies. Life can hit you at any moment, it's part of the game, and there will be suffering. The optimal thing is that when it happens we can reconfigure our structures to absorb and dissolve it as effectively as possible.

[cjoseph90]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

I don't suffer. Negative thought patterns (and the belief in something being negative creates suffering). Now when I discuss suffering I am talking about mental suffering, obviously physical pain is something else. But I don't suffer because my mind is positive. I see the good in everything and have healthy relationships that support this mindset. 

So transcendence of suffering from the mental emotional aspect is possible.

good reminder, thanks

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

You assume "high conscious people" to be people, but really you project your own sense of personhood. "Other" is just a reflection of your own nature. If you believe yourself to be a tiny, little human, that's what the "other" will reflect back to you.

If you become conscious of yourself beyond your personhood, you will also transcend the personhood of "other people".

You will realize that the wisdom of others is just a reflection of your own wisdom. The consciousness of others is just a reflection of your own consciousness. It's all one. You can look at people and say that some are more conscious than others, that's a valid perspective, but you could also transcend this duality entirely and see consciousness expressing itself in infinite way. Both are expressions of consciousness so there is no right answer.

Edited February 11 by DefinitelyNotARobot

[Dazgwny]

Listen to Leo’s video part 3 of what is duality. Start at 46 minutes 35 seconds in. Listen for as long as you like from there. But listen to that particular section, until you get it! Until you genuinely get it!👍🏻

[Ishanga]

56 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

You assume "high conscious people" to be people, but really you project your own sense of personhood. "Other" is just a reflection of your own nature. If you believe yourself to be a tiny, little human, that's what the "other" will reflect back to you.

If you become conscious of yourself beyond your personhood, you will also transcend the personhood of "other people".

You will realize that the wisdom of others is just a reflection of your own wisdom. The consciousness of others is just a reflection of your own consciousness. It's all one. You can look at people and say that some are more conscious than others, that's a valid perspective, but you could also transcend this duality entirely and see consciousness expressing itself in infinite way. Both are expressions of consciousness so there is no right answer.

Yes Agreed, the word Consciousness has dual meanings, there is your Individual Consciousness, more like a sort of Awareness, Alertness and Clarity towards Reality, Reality that is within and around You, then there is Consciousness to mean the foundation of all Existence, what was there before Creation, Before the Big Bang and such.. As Humans we have the most ability of all Life on this planet anyways to Realize or have a "High" degree of Consciousness and Realization, which is Unity with everything and everyone that is living and alive...

Edited February 11 by Ishanga

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

As Humans we have the most ability of all Life on this planet anyways to Realize or have a "High" degree of Consciousness and Realization, which is Unity with everything and everyone that is living and alive...

There is some truth to that.

Humans do not HAVE consciousness, but they are a manifestation of it. You could call some of these manifestations more "radiant". The same consciousness appearing in different shades.

But there are also states where you perceive no individual consciousness. The world, or consciousness itself, simply seems to be conscious of itself, without any personal agenda. It almost feels like you're walking through a lucid dream. Reality itself seems to be looking back at "you". When you talk to another person in that state, there is no perception of " 'they' have a 'higher/lower' consciousness than 'me' ", there simply is consciousness.

I'm not calling either perspective the right one. They're simply two possibilities out of an infinite ocean of potential.