The scapegoating of the nice guy

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Yes, there are great dominas like you

I'm not a dominant. I just don't take no shit. I'm mostly also straight forward and to the point in a nice way. I can come off as demanding sometimes but that's just from insecure guys who want women to obey them and lick their big toe.

[numbersinarow]

14 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Nice guy is selfish like everyone else,but unable to see himself as such,he covers it up by being good.It a survival strategy to gain things for himself by helping others,which looks like he is giving but there is secret agenda always when its broken sooner or later it manifest itself in agressive outburst towards a woman leaving her confused because he cant communicate his desires clearly.

While not being honestly selfish he falls short again and again,not being able to achieve much in life which makes him unable to give because all he can give is fake kidness and live like a bystander judging assholes because that is part of himself that he hates the most,in the end isolates himself because he cant face the cruel world in front of him because he will need to face himself his own selfisness...

Brutal but amazing display of how nice guy is being destroyed by the world and accepting that his own suffering is created by him being weak is in final episode of tokyo ghoul season 1..

They're much better off being nice then getting abused by women and becoming blackpilled, than being a redpilled guy blinded by his own success thinking he earned anything or did anything right besides being born and having opportunities.

You are saying this yourself, except you are describing a "nice guy" with a secret agenda AKA you're describing the stereotype of a creep as opposed to an actual nice guy who truly WOULD suffer from letting the world walk over him.

[NoSelfSelf]

@mr_engineer Pick a purpose you want to tackle then this will all make sense ,outside of that you are wasting your life on bs called changing people and the world.One day you will figure out that you dont have that power, until you become selfishly selfish focus on yourself to built something of value, all this other stories are for the naives which are nice guys thinking you will change the world by helping because you have emotions for the world and not yourself..Being kind and nice is not a problem but ask yourself this: would you be nice if its not affecting your survival and you not getting nothing out of it? then you are kind but on the other hand you cant be kind if you are not bad.

That Jordan peterson quote he used: "its better to be a warrior in a garden then garderner in war" or something like that.Meaning if you cant be violante then you will use kidness as weakness if you are able to hurt others then choosing not to is a virtue...

[NoSelfSelf]

@numbersinarow I didnt get anything you said 😅 i dont care about blackpill,redpill bs

[Israfil]

59 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

actual nice guy who truly WOULD suffer from letting the world walk over him.

Being nice has nothing to do with "letting the world walk over you." 

Not being self-sufficient is also egotism. Being prosperous in every endeavor of life and sharing is being nice.  

[meta_male]

1 hour ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Being kind and nice is not a problem but ask yourself this: would you be nice if its not affecting your survival and you not getting nothing out of it?

This. There's just something fishy about someone offering help when all they know is how to be nice. No human being is inherently nice, it gives off a manipulative, inauthentic impression.

[Schizophonia]

Just now, meta_male said:

This. There's just something fishy about someone offering help when all they know is how to be nice. No human being is inherently nice, it gives off a manipulative, inauthentic impression.

abusive projection.

[meta_male]

@Schizophonia  Explain?

[mr_engineer]

1 hour ago, Squeekytoy said:

We're not, but you are. 

So, I'm being 'theoretical' when I say that being a loving and compassionate individual will raise the level of consciousness of the world? 

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Squeekytoy said:

And moralistic, yes. 

Okay, then. Please enlighten me. 

What is the practical reality? What is the practical reason being a loving and compassionate individual would NOT work to raise the level of consciousness of the world? 

[mr_engineer]

2 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Asking me to prove a negative.

Actually, I'm asking you to disprove the positive. Just give a counter-example to the positive, that'll suffice. 

3 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Better question might be what the actual relationship is between those things, and what it would mean for your development. Forget about fixing the world, that's already highly theoretical and morally misguided at best. 

Which things? 

[Emissary]

5 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

And, when it comes to other people's paradigms not accounting for the possibility of being helped by you, this is where marketing comes in. You know what they need, but they don't know what's possible. So, through marketing, you advertise a better possibility of how things could work. This is how you outcompete the unconscious assholes in the marketplace and this is how you change the world for the better, this is how you make it less cruel. 

You've got a catch 22 here, the unconscious assholes will use any marketing tactics at their disposal including manipulation and other scammy practices, which gives them a competitive advantage over you, as you're supposedly above using such methods given you want to improve the world. And the general public will not be savvy to the scams as they themselves are rather unconscious, which you intend to fix, but your message will get lost in the waves of shit precisely because unconscious people won't be receptive to it and instead keep falling for the scams. It's a vicious circle. I've contemplated this for some time and came to the conclusion it's futile to try to help people who don't want to be helped / are not ready for it.

[Israfil]

11 minutes ago, Emissary said:

You've got a catch 22 here, the unconscious assholes will use any marketing tactics at their disposal including manipulation and other scammy practices, which gives them a competitive advantage over you, as you're supposedly above using such methods given you want to improve the world. And the general public will not be savvy to the scams as they themselves are rather unconscious, which you intend to fix, but your message will get lost in the waves of shit precisely because unconscious people won't be receptive to it and instead keep falling for the scams. It's a vicious circle. I've contemplated this for some time and came to the conclusion it's futile to try to help people who don't want to be helped / are not ready for it.

This is essentially Game Theory. But once a scam is discovered, it is usually outlawed. You have to outlast competition.

 

I feel this thread derailed to outside of dating.

 

[Rafael Thundercat]

On 09/01/2024 at 8:53 PM, mr_engineer said:

There are a whole bunch of people saying a whole bunch of nasty things about nice guys. That 'they're weak, they're inauthentic, they're manipulative, they're controlling, they're not really nice', blah blah blah. I have finally figured out why that is. 

It's because dating-coaches really profit from telling you 'you're being too nice, don't be too nice, do this instead'. 

If they told you the truth, which is that women want a man to be nice and loving towards them, and you should be nice (in smart and pragmatic ways, meaning, if someone asks you for an unreasonable favor, you help them not by doing the favor, you help them by suggesting a better, more convenient alternative), that would not be original. 

This is a problem. Because we are killing true masculinity by doing this. True masculinity is not about achievement and conquest, it is about giving. It is about sharing your gift with the world. 

Honestly, I am not proud of the fact that I live in times when 'being nice' is considered a bad thing and selfishness is glorified. 

Man, what a woman want is to feel safe to be in her feminine essence and man who gives container for that dont aways be nice, because a lot o nice guys in history simply dont survive, so is a primal pulse there, and men in their side have a pulse or inner primal urge to be usefull so look for woman who allow them to express this leadership role if of course he embody this, and woman have a especial snif when man is just fake nicety to get her approval, they smell the fake facade of nicety as a guy who later will prove to not being a protective, caring space holder for her. 

[mr_engineer]

On 1/11/2024 at 1:22 AM, Squeekytoy said:

@mr_engineer If people just worked on themselves before trying to fix the world, everything would be fixed already.

(And no, acting compassionate and loving is not working on yourself.)

Cheers

Yupp. Don't be loving and compassionate towards yourself, be hateful and angry with yourself. That's how you 'work on yourself' and 'fix yourself'. 

On 1/10/2024 at 11:28 PM, Emissary said:

You've got a catch 22 here, the unconscious assholes will use any marketing tactics at their disposal including manipulation and other scammy practices, which gives them a competitive advantage over you, as you're supposedly above using such methods given you want to improve the world. And the general public will not be savvy to the scams as they themselves are rather unconscious, which you intend to fix, but your message will get lost in the waves of shit precisely because unconscious people won't be receptive to it and instead keep falling for the scams. It's a vicious circle. I've contemplated this for some time and came to the conclusion it's futile to try to help people who don't want to be helped / are not ready for it.

Yupp. All marketing is low-consciousness, there is no way to do marketing in a high-consciousness way. 

3 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Man, what a woman want is to feel safe to be in her feminine essence and man who gives container for that dont aways be nice, because a lot o nice guys in history simply dont survive, so is a primal pulse there, and men in their side have a pulse or inner primal urge to be usefull so look for woman who allow them to express this leadership role if of course he embody this, and woman have a especial snif when man is just fake nicety to get her approval, they smell the fake facade of nicety as a guy who later will prove to not being a protective, caring space holder for her. 

Yupp. Being nice and loving is not how you make a woman feel safe, it's being an asshole. That's who will give the 'protective, caring space-holder'. Lol. 

All of the posts I responded to here, have something in common. They lack faith in humanity, that it is possible for humanity to survive in a more conscious form than it currently does. That, just because things have worked a certain way in the past, that they will never change in the future, because 'human nature is inherently brutal'. I urge you to have some more faith in humanity and to entertain the possibility that it is possible for a man and a woman to be loving towards each other and make a good relationship work. 

[Devin]

No high value woman will be with an asshole, being a nice guy is requisite.

[meta_male]

13 hours ago, Devin said:

No high value woman will be with an asshole, being a nice guy is requisite.

A nice guy can't be a well rounded human being. Most young guys here will not land a high value woman with their current mental state anyway, what's more important for them is working on integrating their shadow and getting laid. Shadow work isn't nice, but it puts you in a better position to sleep with girls while still working out who you are and what you want. This is way more important to a man than caring about being nice. It gets him more of the results he actually cares about without worrying about what women say a man should be like.

[Devin]

59 minutes ago, meta_male said:

A nice guy can't be a well rounded human being. Most young guys here will not land a high value woman with their current mental state anyway, what's more important for them is working on integrating their shadow and getting laid. Shadow work isn't nice, but it puts you in a better position to sleep with girls while still working out who you are and what you want. This is way more important to a man than caring about being nice. It gets him more of the results he actually cares about without worrying about what women say a man should be like.

I think you're glossing over the OP, he doesn't mean a pussy, he means not an asshole, and I don't think it's targeted to the black pill incel audience.

Being a nice guy, masculine as the OP described, is a bar every man must meet to be with the type of woman sane men desire and to have a satisfying relationship and life. This all includes integrating the Shadow like you suggest, it's not necessary for them however to have mindless sex with Sluts. I think it is good to have sex by your early twenties, not a problem if they don't, but it does do away with that mental nagging and wonder that can consume a lot of energy, I think it's best to do it in a healthy relationship though.

Edited January 18 by Devin

[NoSelfSelf]

@Devin With that messages shows you are the nice guy because you are meeting the bar for a woman from that belief comes all the other cupcaking bs...@meta_male is closer to the truth about being a man...

[meta_male]

30 minutes ago, Devin said:

Being a nice guy, masculine as the OP described, is a bar every man must meet to be with the type of woman sane men desire and to have a satisfying relationship and life.

Nice is where the average guy starts his journey. OP is frustrated about dating coaches who brainwash guys on the other end of the spectrum.