I finally understand solipsism!

[OBEler]

@Someone here @Someone here ITS easy to answer that. You can deconstruct everything. Easiest method: Close your eyes, shut down your memory and imagination. Nothing exists but seing blackness and some physical sensations for YOU.

But the question for me aries what happens to others from a meta perspective:

I constructed others.now I deconstruct them. For me its clear they dont exist anymore. But what happens to them in their reality.

Edited December 30, 2023 by OBEler

[Carl-Richard]

15 minutes ago, Someone here said:

My deal is very clear my love..but you are purposely trying to let it in one ear out of the other ...

If you want to deconstruct concepts like space ..time ..the self..the whole fucking universe..sure ....but why don't you deconstruct the notion that other people who you see around you don't have an inner experience of reality (call it subjective experience or qualia or vanilla ice cream etc it doesn't matter )..?

Because if we grant a coherent understanding of the topic at hand (which I don't think you have), this goes without saying when you deconstruct space, time and objects, because then you also deconstruct your own "inner experience" (which, again, is different from "direct experience"). So of course, other people's inner experience is also deconstructed, just as your own experience is.

It's like you want me to spell out that the tea that I poured from my teapot into my teacup is now no longer in the teapot. It's self-evident. Your fervent insistence on emphasising the non-existence of the tea in the teapot is in fact only indicative of a misunderstanding of the topic at hand, namely that you think the tea that was poured into the cup actually exists, but it doesn't, just like it doesn't exist in the pot, because it's an illusion altogether.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, OBEler said:

I constructed others.now I deconstruct them. For me its clear they dont exist anymore. But what happens to them in their reality

There is no "their reality". Their reality =you believing that they have a reality . They Don’t.  

I don't exist . I'm just your own mind talking to you . This is a monologue rather than a dialogue. 

What happens to people in your dreams at night after you wake up ?

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Because if we grant a coherent understanding of the topic at hand (which I don't think you have), this goes without saying when you deconstruct space, time and objects, because then you also deconstruct your own "inner experience" (which, again, is different from "direct experience"). So of course, other people's inner experience is also deconstructed, just as your own experience is.

It's like you want me to spell out that the tea that I poured from my teapot into my teacup is now no longer in the teapot. It's self-evident. Your fervent insistence on emphasising the non-existence of the tea in the teapot is in fact only indicative of a misunderstanding of the topic at hand, namely that you think the tea that was poured into the cup actually exists, but it doesn't, just like it doesn't exist in the pot, because it's an illusion altogether.

I think we agree .

[OBEler]

15 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Because if we grant a coherent understanding of the topic at hand (which I don't think you have), this goes without saying when you deconstruct space, time and objects, because then you also deconstruct your own "inner experience" (which, again, is different from "direct experience"). So of course, other people's inner experience is also deconstructed, just as your own experience is.

It's like you want me to spell out that the tea that I poured from my teapot into my teacup is now no longer in the teapot. It's self-evident. Your fervent insistence on emphasising the non-existence of the tea in the teapot is in fact only indicative of a misunderstanding of the topic at hand, namely that you think the tea that was poured into the cup actually exists, but it doesn't, just like it doesn't exist in the pot, because it's an illusion altogether.

Thanks for clearing things up that was the key to understand solipsism better.

Best would be to awaken to IT.As Leo Said, you cannot understand IT with your Intellect alone.

[Carl-Richard]

57 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I think we agree .

I don't think we actually agree. I think what you mean by "this right here is ALL That exists" is actually your "inner experience" (defined in terms of space, time and objects; not direct experience), which in reality is just as non-existent as other people's inner experience. When you say "this is all that exists" and if I ask you what "this" is, I think you'll list me a number of objects extended in time and space.

[Someone here]

@Carl-Richard enough  fooling around  .

answer me this: how many conscious beings in existence are ?.

1-zero.

2-one 

3- billions. 

[OBEler]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Carl-Richard enough  fooling around  .

answer me this: how many conscious beings in existence are ?.

1-zero.

2-one 

3- billions. 

I think you don't get what Carl-Richard said in his last post to you. He described it perfectly. Please contemplate again

 

[Someone here]

@OBEler with all honesty..I have no idea what is he talking about. 

[OBEler]

@Someone here I understand him very well. That's what I try to tell you the whole time here:

You don't understand but you think you understand. That's called delusion. 

Reread again and again. All I can say is you are trapped in a incomplete understanding of reality. Nothing wrong with that. But you think you have figured it out. No, you are lost.

You don't understand much, you just pick some true sentences from Leo in your posts and put them together with your logic and hold them as true and think you are smart. But many people here recognize that you don't know really what you are talking about and try to help you here. So please be open minded to be on the false track

 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by OBEler

[Yimpa]

58 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Carl-Richard enough  fooling around  .

answer me this: how many conscious beings in existence are ?.

1-zero.

2-one 

3- billions. 

 

[Someone here]

10 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Someone here I understand him very well. That's what I try to tell you the whole time here:

You don't understand but you think you understand. That's called delusion. 

Reread again and again. All I can say is you are trapped in a incomplete understanding of reality. Nothing wrong with that. But you think you have figured it out. No, you are lost.

You don't understand much, you just pick some true sentences from Leo in your posts and put them together with your logic and hold them as true and think you are smart. But many people here recognize that you don't know really what you are talking about and try to help you here. So please be open minded to be on the false track

 

 

OK no worries. Thanks for your opinion. While I don't agree with what you're saying but thanks for the feedback. I can't change your mind about me.

[Someone here]

I don't know what the fuss is about.  I'm innocently sharing my contemporary insights  ..If it doesn't resonate with you then ignore it and move on and don't listen to a philosophy that doesn't resonate with you. Why making it personal? 

[OBEler]

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

OK no worries. Thanks for your opinion. While I don't agree with what you're saying but thanks for the feedback. I can't change your mind about me. 

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I don't know what the fuss is about.  I'm innocently sharing my contemporary insights  ..If it doesn't resonate with you then ignore it and move on and don't listen to a philosophy that doesn't resonate with you. Why making it personal? 

 

 

Because we see that your insights are delusional. So the normal thing is then to correct your delusion.Do you want to stay in your delusion? Maybe we are all delusional, let's be open to this.

After this comment it sounds you don't want to hear any critics. Sorry to tell you but that's a sign of immaturity.

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by OBEler

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Vibes said:

@Someone here You are right about that, express yourself and don't give a fuck.

No not me . YOU  Is the one who shouldn't give a fuck . Read my post ..you agree then cool..you disagree.. also cool. There is no need to call me out on my BS even if you see it as utter BS . I like to share my thoughts with people here .I enjoy doing that . And I apologise if it misleads people who are serious about spiritual work.  

5 minutes ago, OBEler said:

 

 

Because we see that your insights are delusional. So the normal thing is then to correct your delusion.Do you want to stay in your delusion? Maybe we are all delusional, let's be open to this.

After this comment it sounds you don't want to hear any critics. Sorry to tell you but that's a sign of immaturity.

 

Absolutely not . Criticize me all you want . But you don't appreciate that when you share something you authentically believe in then people attack you ...it does demotivate me from considering to share more insights .  Just say you disagree and move in .no need to call me deliberately delusional. That doesn't feel good .

[OBEler]

9 minutes ago, Vibes said:

@OBEler Let him be, man...

As a moderator I have to address this.

If you start a thread with insights, then expect that people will deny your insights - especially if they are delusional. We are all here to help each other. But if someone is constantly in delusion with absolute confidence then this gets problematic. 

If you don't want to hear critics against your insights then maybe starting a journal would be the right thing. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by OBEler

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, OBEler said:

As a moderator I have to address this.

If you start a thread with insights, then expect that people will deny your insights - especially if they are delusional. We are all here to help each other. But if someone is constantly in delusion with absolute confidence then this gets problematic.

If you don't want to hear critics against your insights then maybe starting a journal would be the right thing. 

Absolutely correct. 💯  I will consider opening a journal. I will also lessen the amount of my threads in this section . 

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, OBEler said:

 

 

Because we see that your insights are delusional. So the normal thing is then to correct your delusion.Do you want to stay in your delusion? Maybe we are all delusional, let's be open to this.

After this comment it sounds you don't want to hear any critics. Sorry to tell you but that's a sign of immaturity.

 

What I see is someone trying to understand the nature of Reality. Yes, he can be arrogant and rude at times and seems a bit delusional but I think some of that arrogance is falling away and transforming into genuine curiosity. Sometimes these things has to happen before Consciousness realizes itself. 

When one is shifting it will appear as confusion and delusion. You don't clean an already cleaned house and in the process of cleaning we shift around things that needs to be put in it's correct place and this shift appears as a disturbance and doesn't look pretty. 

This is what I sense. He is shifting and in his mind is a lot of confusion, but I see he is trying to understand. He's very stubborn, but that's ok too. Stubborness has to outgrow itself. No need to come down so hard on him and attack his character.

[OBEler]

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No not me . YOU  Is the one who shouldn't give a fuck . Read my post ..you agree then cool..you disagree.. also cool. There is no need to call me out on my BS even if you see it as utter BS . I like to share my thoughts with people here .I enjoy doing that . And I apologise if it misleads people who are serious about spiritual work.  

As I said, I cannot give a fuck as a moderator of this forum.

You can share your thoughts. But with a bit more humbleness and willing to learn from others. Otherwise you can convince other beginners into your worldview with such confidence you have. And yes you can then mislead many people. I tried to stop this here with directly calling you delusional. 

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, OBEler said:

You can share your thoughts. But with a bit more humbleness and willing to learn from others

Noted ✅ 

[Carl-Richard]

12 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Carl-Richard enough  fooling around  .

answer me this: how many conscious beings in existence are ?.

1-zero.

2-one 

3- billions. 

Once we get the fact of direct experience out of the way (that there is only one Consciousness), then we can consciously go on to grant things such as space, time and objects (and logical deductions based on those), because that is how we come to understand much of the world, particularly the world of things, people and inner experiences (which again, is not direct experience). Now, when you grant these things, most rational people will conclude (using logical inferences and based on how objects in their inner experience seem to behave and interract) that their inner experience is not the only inner experience that exists.

On the other hand, what solipsists tend to do (usually unconsciously) is to grant space, time and objects but then severely limit the scope of their logical deductions. They will say (implictly not explictly): "I'm only able to see a particular configuration of space, time and objects here, therefore that is all that exists". Most rational people will further the investigation and say "but looking at these objects and how they behave and interract, other people seem very alike me, both in behavior and appearance, and when I perform a particular behavior, that causes a change in my inner experience, thus other people must likely experience the same thing".

In this sense, solipsism is a conceptual understanding of the world that feigns conceptual minimalism by unconsciously smuggling conceptual assumptions, and as a consequence, it becomes unable to take advantage of these assumptions in a way that makes sense, because they (solipsists) are unconscious of what they're actually doing. They think these assumptions are just what is self-evident, that there are no assumptions involved, but in reality, it's just a stereotypical and unconscious way of trying to find the most reductionistic and parsimonious worldview there is (which is attractive because it gives a feeling of safety). In reality, it's not reductionistic, not parsimonious, but instead a constipated and lobotomized view of the world.

And why is it that? Again, because you grant all these things (space, time, objects and logic), but then you severely limit the use of these things (you constipate or lobotomize yourself). Like, why grant the existence of objects but don't investigate a bit deeper how they behave and interract (other than how they merely relate to the position of your eyes)? It's like you're playing a game of monopoly where you give yourself a huge stack of cash but you only use pocket change to play the game. And it's worse than simply being stingy, because you actually believe that you only have the pocket change. You unconsciously granted yourself a huge stack of cash, but in your unconsciousness, you don't think it exists.

So in summary, if you want to concede to making conceptual claims and answer the question of how many people in the world have an inner experience: 1. don't claim you're not making a conceptual claim when actually you are (don't smuggle conceptual assumptions), and 2. do it right (investigate a bit deeper how objects behave). Then you should have your answer.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Carl-Richard