Can meditation trigger psychosis or schizophrenia?

[Agrande]

After entering states of deep meditation, I have states of profound Derealisation (I can’t find a better word but it feels like everything is a dream) and I start seeing subtle psychedelic patterns wherever I look. I can see the patterns in most detail when I look at a blank wall.

I enter into states of profound ‘no-thought’ and it makes me feel like I’m just a witness to whatever is happening. Like a person sitting in the back of a movie theatre (that’s how I feel like) watching my sensory output (sight, touch, hearing etc.)

I’m scared this can make me go psychotic or schizophrenic. Should I take a break?

I don’t know what to do. Please tell me your experiences and advice.

[Asia P]

I'm having something similar.

I have a friend into spirituality and meditation who had serious episodes of dissociation, she couldn't get out of her bed very often and her parents were thinking about taking her to the hospital some days.

Right now i have frequent episodes of dissociation (most of the time they are mild) with your same symptoms.

I am not scared at all because, i know what is waiting for me, because i've seen my friend's same situation coming and passing away. Probably i am also calm because i talked a lot about this with her.

I'm solving this with a total surrender to dissociation episodes, let them come into and then go with complete acceptance and tranquility. You can also try to contemplate this state of mind, it can be really interesting and unique. 

I also think that when you are into spirituality and dissociation comes, then it will never let you go, you will not do everyday things and pleasures with the same state of mind, for me it is something that i must accept, right now and for the rest of my life.

[An young being]

1 hour ago, Agrande said:

 

I’m scared this can make me go psychotic or schizophrenic. Should I take a break?

I don’t know what to do. Please tell me your experiences and advice.

If you are scared, you can take rest from meditation and focus on mindfulness in your day to day life. I had similar psychotic+Spiritual episodes long ago for months after extreme meditation, but it vanished on its own after stopping it. I rarely meditate after that, in fact if you have got freedom from thoughts bombardment/ monkey mind, a few minutes of meditation everyday maybe more than enough and could be equal to hours of meditation sittings. You can also try shifting to loving kindness meditation for a while. When your fear is gone, you can come back to your ordinary practices.

[Leo Gura]

Yes, but you seem far from that.

[kylan11]

1 hour ago, Agrande said:

After entering states of deep meditation, I have states of profound Derealisation (I can’t find a better word but it feels like everything is a dream) and I start seeing subtle psychedelic patterns wherever I look. I can see the patterns in most detail when I look at a blank wall.

I enter into states of profound ‘no-thought’ and it makes me feel like I’m just a witness to whatever is happening. Like a person sitting in the back of a movie theatre (that’s how I feel like) watching my sensory output (sight, touch, hearing etc.)

I’m scared this can make me go psychotic or schizophrenic. Should I take a break?

I don’t know what to do. Please tell me your experiences and advice.

It can in people that are genetically predisposed to it. But unless you have a parent or a sibling that is psychotic I wouldn't worry about it. 

For instance I have a schizophrenic uncle and my chances of being diagnosed at some point in life is about 2%. Less actually, since I'm already 25. For comparison, it's 1% for the general population.

From what you're describing it simply just sounds like effective deep meditation. That's amazing. You are witnessing a shift in a higher state of consciousness. There's nothing to be concerned about.

[Agrande]

46 minutes ago, An young being said:

If you are scared, you can take rest from meditation and focus on mindfulness in your day to day life. I had similar psychotic+Spiritual episodes long ago for months after extreme meditation, but it vanished on its own after stopping it. I rarely meditate after that, in fact if you have got freedom from thoughts bombardment/ monkey mind, a few minutes of meditation everyday maybe more than enough and could be equal to hours of meditation sittings. You can also try shifting to loving kindness meditation for a while. When your fear is gone, you can come back to your ordinary practices.

It feels like I'm automatically mindful for most of the day

It feels like meditation has carried over from my focused sessions into my everyday life experience and there's no way to go back to the state of normalcy

[Agrande]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, but you seem far from that.

I'm a bit worried that this can be early signs of something major (psychosis and schizophrenia)

but if it happens, it is what it is?

I'll be open and accept it 

[Agrande]

5 minutes ago, kylan11 said:

It can in people that are genetically predisposed to it. But unless you have a parent or a sibling that is psychotic I wouldn't worry about it. 

For instance I have a schizophrenic uncle and my chances of being diagnosed at some point in life is about 2%. Less actually, since I'm already 25. For comparison, it's 1% for the general population.

From what you're describing it simply just sounds like effective deep meditation. That's amazing. You are witnessing a shift in a higher state of consciousness. There's nothing to be concerned about.

I don't know of anyone psychotic or schizophrenic in my family. There's only one person that says crazy stuff and is sort of paranoid with everyone but I don't know if that is just a personality problem or a neurological problem

[tuku747]

You can't run from yourself forever.

Might as well make peace!

[Agrande]

7 minutes ago, tuku747 said:

You can't run from yourself forever.

Might as well make peace!

You're right. I realized most of my life was just escapism from truths.

[An young being]

39 minutes ago, Agrande said:

It feels like I'm automatically mindful for most of the day

It feels like meditation has carried over from my focused sessions into my everyday life experience and there's no way to go back to the state of normalcy

2 hours ago, Agrande said:

 

To be frank, that's a gift rather than a curse. It is a state higher than normalcy and not lower. If you are afraid, stop meditation completely, you don't seem to require it anymore. How is your mind right now? Can you stay quiet and have a clean mind for ten minutes without doing anything? Or is your mind constantly being bombarded by thoughts higher than usual? Based on your descriptions, there is nothing alarming about it. But if it's the second case, surrender to it completely, and it will vanish on its own after some time.

[An young being]

45 minutes ago, Agrande said:

I'm a bit worried that this can be early signs of something major (psychosis and schizophrenia)

but if it happens, it is what it is?

I'll be open and accept it 

This mindset is what I was talking about. Just remember that no state is permanent.

[Agrande]

2 minutes ago, An young being said:

This mindset is what I was talking about. Just remember that no state is permanent.

Bullseye 

[Agrande]

1 hour ago, An young being said:

To be frank, that's a gift rather than a curse. It is a state higher than normalcy and not lower. If you are afraid, stop meditation completely, you don't seem to require it anymore. How is your mind right now? Can you stay quiet and have a clean mind for ten minutes without doing anything? Or is your mind constantly being bombarded by thoughts higher than usual? Based on your descriptions, there is nothing alarming about it. But if it's the second case, surrender to it completely, and it will vanish on its own after some time.

My mind right now is empty but has that subtle ‘meta’ awareness like I’m always present and a witness to my senses. Sometimes thoughts pop in here and there but that’s a sign my awakenings are incomplete and I have more work to do. 
 

I probably need to completely surrender like you said. 
 

Really interested in the states of consciousness Leo has experienced (alien consciousness, love, insanity etc.)

Hope I can get to that level one day

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

Yes. Usually the human mind has some solidity to it, in that there are predictable patterns found within its behavior, but meditation started to dissolve all of that. I believe that there are certain functions within that human mind that if removed, wouldn't give you an enlightening experience, but rather dissolve certain functions of your mind. That could be something as fundamental as your ability to tell the difference between thinking and talking. Imagine if you were saying all of your thoughts out loud because you couldn't tell the difference between thinking them internally. I think most people wouldn't be able to transcend such a fundamental aspect of their experience, but it could definitely be possible for some. I've managed to imagine a melody to the point where I started to actually hear it. I realized that if I were to go deeper into this meditation, I might actually start to hear things. I wasn't sure if I could control it, or if I could reverse it if I didn't have control, so I stopped immediately.

[Agrande]

3 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

Yes. Usually the human mind has some solidity to it, in that there are predictable patterns found within its behavior, but meditation started to dissolve all of that. I believe that there are certain functions within that human mind that if removed, wouldn't give you an enlightening experience, but rather dissolve certain functions of your mind. That could be something as fundamental as your ability to tell the difference between thinking and talking. Imagine if you were saying all of your thoughts out loud because you couldn't tell the difference between thinking them internally. I think most people wouldn't be able to transcend such a fundamental aspect of their experience, but it could definitely be possible for some. I've managed to imagine a melody to the point where I started to actually hear it. I realized that if I were to go deeper into this meditation, I might actually start to hear things. I wasn't sure if I could control it, or if I could reverse it if I didn't have control, so I stopped immediately.

Do you still have those experiences? 

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, but you seem far from that.

Can you share your experiences? I am interested in understanding exactly how one should conduct their meditation, psychedelic use or contemplation if they'd like to avoid permanent damage to their human self. What is it, that dictates whether a boundary is safe to cross, or not? I understand that you can only know once you've actually crossed it, but since you're an expert in crossing boundaries, what observations have you made regarding this matter? I'd like to hear your advice for someone, that has struggled with states of psychosis throughout their journey. I don't think that you can, or should, eliminate them, but their not my personal goal in this journey.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

Ego fear it's own demise.

 

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

8 minutes ago, Agrande said:

Do you still have those experiences? 

It fluctuates. To me, consciousness appears in a breathing pattern, where it increases and decreases at a steady pace. Sometimes there are spikes, specially when psychedelics or deep meditation is involved, but they're relatively rare for me bcause I'm taking it slow. When I'm in the higher end of this spectrum, weird things can still occur, but I've become more aware of the consequences of the spiritual journey, which is why I've been taking it slow. This has helped me not go insane. Sometimes I stretch myself out of my comfort zone, but I realize that the human body and mind are just a tool like any other tool and if you stretch its capacities too far, it can very much break. So I've become mindful of how far I stretch them. You don't want to bench press two tons. That would destroy you. Be realistic, according to what you want to use the body and mind for. It's all relative after all. There is nothing wrong with psychosis, I'm just talking from my own bias.

Edited November 18, 2023 by DefinitelyNotARobot

[Yimpa]

Anything can trigger psychosis.

Instead of worrying about that, get real serious about understanding what consciousness is.