If I do not exist, then who’s breathing?

[Dodo]

16 minutes ago, HMD said:

The query would still remain. People will still shout “there is no you!”. I would still have this question, “if there is no I, then why breath? For whom” 

@Princess Arabia There is supposed to be no “I”  

@UnbornTao I arrive at I don't know, every time. 

 

The problem stems from you thinking you are not getting something that someone else has got and that they are somehow more profound. If someone speaks with confidence they can convince you of a lot of things and then you will also go around parroting them and convince others. WILDFIRE spreads.

 Most of the "there is no you" shouters around here are parrots anyway. Parroting something that was said in specific setting to someone specifically as a medicine of some sort to guide them in some direction. You don't need to drink the  medicine if you are not sick, in fact it can even harm you. 

 

[HMD]

@Princess Arabia I understand.

[Dodo]

If you remove the conditioning from the people telling you there is "no I", they will not be telling you that. They have removed their old conditioning with a new conditioning that was designed to be dropped after removing the old conditioning. But they grasp to it, because now it is their new identity of no-self. Completely defeating the purpose.

There was some sort of saying that I heard from someone like Adyashanti or someone else: Use this thorn to remove the other torn, but dont forget to discard both thorns! 

[Francis777]

There is an "I"

Its just not an "I" that can be a specific distinction.

That's what god is, that is the true "I"

Any "I" that can be specifically distinct is just the true "I" falling for its own illusion of separation.

[Dodo]

16 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

There is an "I"

Its just not an "I" that can be a specific distinction.

That's what god is, that is the true "I"

Any "I" that can be specifically distinct is just the true "I" falling for its own illusion of separation.

I always cringe a little bit when people start talking as if they understand God. The absolute beyond all understanding... Ok. 

I would argue, if one is ok with pure Not Knowing, they are already miles ahead of any spiritual, religious or nondual scholar.

The scholar wants to know, wants to be a gnostic. The knowing one. IMPORTANT POINT: SCHOLAR WILL MOST LIKELY DEFEAT YOU IN AN ARGUMENT AND EMERGE VICTORIOUS

Just so happens, absolute parody, enlightenment, at least from my journey, is Not Knowing.

I could say i know this, but i dont. I am speaking from my own limited perspective. 

Spiritual egos are hard to catch, its easier to listen to someone who says they know, than to someone who says they dont. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Dodo

[HMD]

@Dodo Certainly, what you said holds a lot of truth. Especially that parroting part.

But what motivates me to pursue this no-self-inquiry is not just other people but also my own experiences of no-self. 

I was in that state for months (it was terrifying), so I was forced to develop a sense of self again, deliberately. 

Even if that state of no-self was terrifying, It was the right direction for me. Now, I can’t seem to find my way back to that state. And this is why this question is important, because it was through this that I reached that state the first time.

There is no answer to this question, it's a pointer. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by HMD

[Razard86]

You can reach a state of consciousness where breath ceases and you are still there. Be careful...it can spoil the whole realness of life for you.

[Francis777]

11 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Spiritual egos are hard to catch, its easier to listen to someone who says they know, than to someone who says they dont.

your living proof of this you donkey

Not knowing does not imply that you can't have a meta understanding of god

Edited November 2, 2023 by Francis777

[HMD]

@Razard86 You are pointing toward a radical possibility. Tell me more about it. 

[HMD]

6 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

you donkey

Hahah bruh 😂

[HMD]

27 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

There is an "I"

Its just not an "I" that can be a specific distinction.

That's what god is, that is the true "I"

Any "I" that can be specifically distinct is just the true "I" falling for its own illusion of separation.

This relates with what @Princess Arabia said above. 

[Francis777]

3 minutes ago, HMD said:

This relates with what @Princess Arabia said above. 

yes, same point

[_Archangel_]

4 hours ago, HMD said:

If there is no I then why must breath keep happening?

@HMD You said it yourself, There so need of an attachment o the "I" for breath to keep occurring.

4 hours ago, HMD said:

If there is no I then there need not be breath. Why have breath as a necessity, mandatorily, without I? 

This waking state has fixed laws that can't be broken. Breath is a fundation as much has gravity is. 
Without a building's fundation, it wouln't be possible fore you to go up to the 73d flor and observe the view from the window

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, HMD said:

The breath can go on on its own, it’s an occurrence. But when I control it, who’s controlling it? If there is no I then why must breath keep happening? If there is no I then there need not be breath. Why have breath as a necessity, mandatorily, without I? 

It's all being imagined at a higher level of consciousness.   All perception including all senses (touch, taste, sight, sound) is imagined by infinity.   Which is YOu!

[Breakingthewall]

All humans identify with the self, with the entity that thinks and has a breathing body, as if we were the owner of a machine. that is the self that is said not to exist, in the sense that it is not the center of experience. The experience itself is what we are, and beyond the experience, we are the existence that is creating this experience. This is absolutely mysterious to me. It's something I can't see but I think at some point I will.

What I do achieve with psychedelics is the opening to total infinity, the source of life, the living unfathomable absolute. I don't understand the how and why of this experience, but I see its deliberation. every micron of this experience has a purpose, nothing is coincidental. Every breath is deliberate, every atom is exactly where it needs to be. We will see how far this can be opened, what depth can be accessed. As @Dodo says we do not have to have any borrowed wisdom, the mind must be completely empty, without the slightest structure, this allows the possibility of delving into the wonder that this eternal moment is. 

[Dodo]

34 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

your living proof of this you donkey

Not knowing does not imply that you can't have a meta understanding of god

Absolute perfection, egoic response engaged. My work here is done.

[Francis777]

1 minute ago, Dodo said:

Absolute perfection, egoic response engaged. My work here is done.

Your entire reply was ego! I know I was being egoic, it was intentional!

My point was that you were on your high horse calling people out for the exact thing that you were doing but were too ignorant to be aware that you were doing it you buffoon! 

Nothing worse than people who call people out while simultaneously doing the exact same thing, it's so obvious, get a grip man.

Trying to play the masterful sensei, if anyone's cringe its you!

[HMD]

5 minutes ago, _Archangel_ said:

his waking state has fixed laws that can't be broken. Breath is a fundation as much has gravity is. 

@_Archangel_ That’s one characteristic of breath that makes breath useful for grounding oneself.  And yes, there need not be a limited “I” for breath to happen. Appreciate your input.

@Inliytened1 This also includes the control “I”have over my breath, which “I” actually don't have. Because let me see... The “I” and the breath are one. 

[HMD]

@Breakingthewall Great response!

As far as I have observed when the sense of self disappears, your experience itself becomes infinity. Experience is recontextualized into the existence that creates itself. I know it sounds wacky but that’s how it was for me. This explains the point you made about perfection, experience is God so it must be perfect. 

[Dodo]

10 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

Your entire reply was ego! I know I was being egoic, it was intentional!

My point was that you were on your high horse calling people out for the exact thing that you were doing but were too ignorant to be aware that you were doing it you buffoon! 

Nothing worse than people who call people out while simultaneously doing the exact same thing, it's so obvious, get a grip man.

Trying to play the masterful sensei, if anyone's cringe its you!

I did not call you names. I did not call you cringe,  i called your belief that you understand God is cringe. 

If you perceived me as a masterful sensei, that's great, like someone calling another a chess cheater when they didnt cheat - its an honor!

I hit some major nerve in you, with my statements and its completely understandable. When a master at not knowing meets a master at knowing there's bound to be some fireworks. I might learn some things from you and you might unlearn things from me. Win win situation from my point of view.