Debunking solipsism... for the 476th time 💀

[Razard86]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is so simple to get and it's the only thing that makes sense and not just this, but everything else I've learnt is pointing to this.

I'm glad you are honest enough to see it. Have you seen the tales people on this forum try to spin to avoid this? I don't even care if they realize it or not, I just want people to admit when the truth is the truth. The truth is there is no separation and everything points to this...even science points to it and they hate it and keep trying to avoid it.

The key to understanding yourself is just to admit what is. If I am a raging alcoholic, admit it. If I am scared of cats admit it. If I have a burning sensation when I urinate admit it. If I am afraid of the dark admit it. The problem is people's minds are so corrupted with a lack of self honesty they are lost in a web a maze of lies and are confused. 

 

[Osaid]

Solipsism is a belief about experience. It's relative to people.

No people = no solipsism to contemplate and think about.

Unfortunately most people actually perceive themselves as existing inside of imagination, which is what ego is, so it's very hard for them to see that thinking about people is not the same as people. It's just knowledge. As a baby, before you see the first person ever, you don't have any conception of other people. It's not metaphysics, and it's not absolute, it literally does not exist when you are born. It is just relative concepts.

"You can't know that other people exist through imagination" != "other people don't exist"

The latter is a conclusion arrived by perceiving the former. It's all imagination. You cannot know that other people don't exist without consulting imagination in the first place.

"Realizing solipsism" is knowledge-building, it is not existential. And that seems to be the case with a lot of these different awakenings, you guys are just arriving at different conclusions and ideas and insights about reality which you didn't have before. You might as well realize that the tree outside of your house doesn't exist, tree-awakening. Or that that sun doesn't exist when you look at it, sun-awakening! The sun is absolutely non-existent guys! If you close your eyes and focus on experience, you can't experience the sun!

This entire thing is so hilariously anthropomorphic, the only reason you focus on "other people" instead of the sun or a tree is because you are a human and humans care about people. No one cares if you realize that the sun doesn't exist, but everyone cares when you say "people don't exist", because that is what you as a human find relevant and intellectually satisfying. 

When someone says "hey bro the sun doesn't exist", it doesn't really matter to you, because you can experientially recognize that this guy just reached some intellectual conclusion which is irrelevant to your experience. The world is not ending. And you have not frozen to death. But, when someone starts saying that other people don't exist, you get your panties in a twist.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Osaid

[Bazooka Jesus]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

If you close your eyes....you will notice that you are all that is. In one sense it is vision that blinds you into creating distinctions. If you close your eyes and drop all labels...everything is just ONE big experience. An experience that is happening and is aware it is happening. How is this possible? Because it is awareness itself. You said how is this possible? Because awareness is aware and to be aware...is to feel itself. 

So you don't hear sound...you are sound aware of itself. All appearances are aware of itself as what it is. Awareness imagines itself as water and then is aware of what water is as water. Awareness imagines fire and is aware of itself as fire. This is all that happens for all eternity. And its all ONE because there is only awareness imagining itself as something. 

So with this understanding...how is there an OTHER? There isn't, there never was and never will be. You wiggle to the left and wiggle to the right but you cannot escape all that is, because you are all that is no matter how many appearances you take form as. That is why you are ONE, ONE appearing as infinite temporary forms, and that is why you are ALL ALONE as the infinite shape shifting appearing and disappearing form/formless awareness. 

What a beautiful tale. 🤩

[Princess Arabia]

I think what Is confusing here is people seeing other as other people. My understanding is that people exists as separate beings in appearance. I as a human am not alone, there are other humans appearing, but I'm not really human and the same thing appearing as a human in me is the same thing appearing as a human in other humans. Humans are just one thing appearing. Everything that is appearing is this one thing. God creates by BEING. So everything is God being, so everything is God, I'm God appearing as a human. So if God is all there is then God is One. Forget about these man-made terms like Solipsism, human. God is One. So where is the other. There is no other. Words and language is the barrier here. It's so simple. No human gets out of this alive nor any animal etc because it is God.

[Francis777]

It’s all because people will not accept the infinite regress “problem”.

That anything that divides reality into 2, must have already been a distinction itself otherwise it would merge not divide. As such, what divided that prior distinction so that it became distinction? and so on to infinity.

The sole appreciation of the profundity of this problem is what will lead people to expand their consciousness to the degree of solipsism. 

If anyone that was truly open minded came across this problem they would not brush it off and they would explore it so much that they would realise that they cannot disprove it.

They acceptance of this insight is what will cause them to consider the alternative, at which point they will awaken to the truth of solipsism themselves, proving it only to themselves, as that is the best you can do.
 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Francis777

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, Francis777 said:

It’s all because people will not accept the infinite regress “problem”.

That anything that divides reality into 2, must have already been a distinction itself otherwise it would merge not divide. As such, what divided that prior distinction so that it became distinction? and so on to infinity.

The sole appreciation of the profundity of this problem is what will lead people to expand their consciousness to the degree of solipsism. 

If anyone that was truly open minded came across this problem they would not brush it off and they would explore it so much that they would realise that they cannot disprove it.

They acceptance of this insight is what will cause them to consider the alternative, at which point they will awaken to the truth of solipsism themselves, proving it only to themselves, as that is the best you can do.
 

Solipsism is bittersweet. It's funny the first time I awakened to it I had no problem with it...then after awhile the backlash came...and I understood what Leo meant and why its bittersweet. For me the sweetness came first and the bitter came afterward. After realizing Solipsism...you understand that God is the amazing thing ever, it is absolute self-love but it has no other to share itself with...so it creates other to share itself.

I can deconstruct and reconstruct Other at will...that is why they call it death...you destroy other...but you can now consciously delude yourself into other. I'll say words on a screen can delude me easier than a person in front of me can. That's just my bias though...I could deconstruct this bias if I wanted too...

This is why Leo stated that Enlightenment is imaginary. Why is it? Because Enlightenment, Non Dual Baseline will still be experienced differently by every Enlightened Human. People who argue with him don't get what he is saying....because even though Solipsism is Non-Dual...it isn't the only kind of Non-Dual.

For example...you could be aware there is no other....but also be aware that there is no death as well so much that all your dead relatives you experience them as still here. Now have I experienced this? No...but there are people who do experience that. I also know that if I desire to experience that.....I can just WILL IT. How do I know this? Because its the same with Solipsism...I willed it into my baseline experience. 

[ZzzleepingBear]

I think teaching solipsim is as silly as it get's, since solipsim may or may not come as a intuitive conclusion itself based on other experiences, rather than something that can be taught.

It's like trying to teach a blind about colour, or write a phd about what some exotic fruit taste like 

Solipsim will not make any practical changes to who you essentially are, it will only create confusion for those who think they arrived at the conclusion before they got there themselves. 

[Bazooka Jesus]

17 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

I'm God appearing as a human.

Yes.

Right now, God pretends to be "you" and everything else. Should God at any point decide to stop pretending, then "everything else" and "you" will disappear and only pure Being will remain. But this pure Being won't be an experience, because there will be nothing left to experience.

Pretty obvious, isn't it? 

[Francis777]

12 hours ago, Razard86 said:

This is why Leo stated that Enlightenment is imaginary. Why is it? Because Enlightenment, Non Dual Baseline will still be experienced differently by every Enlightened Human

yes this is accurate. Its a good point for people that haven't realised it is imaginary to ponder.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Francis777

[Razard86]

10 hours ago, ZzzleepingBear said:

I think teaching solipsim is as silly as it get's, since solipsim may or may not come as a intuitive conclusion itself based on other experiences, rather than something that can be taught.

It's like trying to teach a blind about colour, or write a phd about what some exotic fruit taste like 

Solipsim will not make any practical changes to who you essentially are, it will only create confusion for those who think they arrived at the conclusion before they got there themselves. 

Oh you'll know...you cannot bullshit your way to Solipsism. Also everyone knows Solipsism is true...because you cannot disprove it. You can verify it but you cannot disprove it. Because I am not talking about regular Solipsism, I am talking about ABSOLUTE SOLIPSISM.

ABSOLUTE SOLIPSISM has always been everyone's experience. When you watch a movie, you only see it from a particular perspective. Whichever perspective the Director wants you to see from that is what you see from. That movie can exist as a file, and it already contains everything that happened and you just experience it as it happens. But why are you only seeing one perspective....because that perspective is ABSOLUTE. 

Now you could write another perspective and make it a movie and you could play that perspective on another screen, you could write infinite perspectives and play them on infinite screens, but those perspectives...will always be ABSOLUTE!!!! Because it is just ONE INFINITE BEING zoomed in to a particular perspective. And since it is the only thing, each perspective is not only itself, but the perspectives that look back at it are also itself.

So it cannot be other.... Are there others in a dvd file? NO!!! They are all housed in one dvd file. Now within the story of the dvd file the characters can treat and identify themselves as other...but there isn't and cannot be OTHER. Once its other....then there needs to be something else that it is not. So how can God create other then? God creates other through limitation and erasing its knowledge of what it is. 

God forgets its the DVD and mistakes itself for one of the characters in the DVD. It's simple to understand....not rocket science.

[ZzzleepingBear]

@Razard86 It sure is'nt rocket science. But talking to much about it can make it seem like it is rocket science. That's why I believe that solipsim should be talked about very sparingly, since it may create more confusion than it solves. 

One of the more mature approaches of Leo was to take that video of solipsim down for exactly those reasons. There is many other ways than just focus solely on solipsim to get it.

[Osaid]

38 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

God forgets its the DVD and mistakes itself for one of the characters in the DVD. It's simple to understand....not rocket science.

Humans forget things. Only a human can forget that it is God. Only a human can realize that other humans don't exist. Only a human can realize that it isn't human. You are also accessing the fact that you forgot something through memory.

Again, nothing here is absolute, it is your own anthropomorphic bias projected onto reality. This is all just a story about yourself that you are concocting, a very human story. This is all fundamentally stemming from the belief that you genuinely exist inside of thought. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Osaid

[Davino]

Frank Yang on Solipsism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZiZueRZaqM

[Francis777]

3 hours ago, Osaid said:

Only a human can forget that it is God

is this accurate?

[Razard86]

24 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

is this accurate?

Depends on how you look at it...to say God can't forget is to limit God. Maybe human, is a limitation on God that can forget that it is God. So...its still God doing it....because God is all there is.

[Bazooka Jesus]

4 hours ago, Davino said:

Frank Yang on Solipsism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZiZueRZaqM

He describes the three main stages of consciousness development pretty well. I would describe them like this:

1st stage: "I have consciousness"

2nd stage: "I am consciousness"

3rd stage: "There is nothing but consciousness (and 'I' am just an appearance inside of it)"

I would add the caveat though that the third stage cannot accurately be put into words... so whatever description you come up with, it's not it. Not because it is too complex -- on the contrary: It is way too simple to put it into words. It is absolute Simplicity itself!

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Bazooka Jesus

[Breakingthewall]

On 26/10/2023 at 9:39 PM, Razard86 said:

Because it is awareness itself. You said how is this possible? Because awareness is aware and to be aware...is to feel itself. 

So you don't hear sound...you are sound aware of itself. All appearances are aware of itself as what it is. Awareness imagines itself as water and then is aware of what water is as water. Awareness imagines fire and is aware of itself as fire

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

 

Good insight. You could say that consciousness and existence are the same.

but for me the word consciousness is incomplete, existence is better, because consciousness seems to be just the fact of being aware of something, as if there were something and outside of that something you are conscious, and it is as you said before, being conciousness of something is to be that

[Breakingthewall]

Solipsism is over all irrelevant. What do you care if there are others or not? It's just an idea. You may have the idea that yes or no, but awakening is not an idea.

[Bazooka Jesus]

47 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

and although it is nothing more than depth, it is not simple, it is infinitely complex.

It's your thinking about it which is complex. Why? Because absolute reality is so goddamn simple that you absolutely cannot wrap your mind around it; and so you concoct this absurdly complex mental construct that you keep ruminating on just to have something that you can hold on to.

Absolute Reality = absolute Simplicity. Only relative things are complex.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Bazooka Jesus

[Inliytened1]

There is nothing to debunk.  You are completely alone as God and when you reach a high enough state of consciousness you will realize that you are dreaming everything.