How God creates the concept of "Real"

[Razard86]

If everything is imaginary, and that imagination is YOU....how do you create a REAL world? God is so infinitely intelligent that only God could fool itself and create REAL. God has perfect self-knowledge. So God knows that something could never be REAL without pain, without suffering, without the fear of annihilation. This creates stakes, this creates meaning, this creates the ability for truth to be tested, this creates an avenue to see how truth plays itself out when it has been deceived. 

Think about it? Wipe your memory. Create a world in which you are told it is physical by everyone around you. You are taught this and everything seems to logically line up. You are taught early that humans are evil by many sources, and have to learn to be good. You are taught through various sources what is considered good and what is considered evil. But as you grow up you notice these terms or categories are inconsistent and are constantly being shuffled around. You start to realize that without a deep investigation into various aspects of your life, you will be lost. You realize you don't know your left from your right. You have been dropped into a world that is confused, but is pretending it knows what is going on so now you have to take back your authority and try to figure out what is what. 

You come across some teachings that challenge the notions of what is real but through your direct experience you feel everything is real. If someone takes a knife and stabs you that pain feels REAL, if someone you care about gets hurt that emotional pain feels REAL, if something you hate happens before you that emotional pain feels REAL, your biggest triumphs over adversity those triumphs feel REAL! 

Now think about this....the people that challenge that reality is REAL, you are like "Come on man you trying to say reality is like a cartoon?"  They respond "It's pure imagination man, so yeah that's a cool analogy, it can defy any laws and do whatever it wants." You respond "No way man my whole life is REAL!!!" This is the beauty of God's design. What you call evil, is actually the mechanism that makes life REAL. If you remove evil....the jig is up. There won't be any meaning, any purpose, and you will destroy REAL, you also will have to destroy diversity as well because what you call evil is just INFINITE DIVERSITY. One day if you go far enough, deep enough into yourself, you will realize how much you love suffering. You have no idea how much you love pain and suffering until you live too long without it. 

This is why Reality is called perfect, because the POINT IS TO MAKE IT REAL!!!

Edited October 10, 2023 by Razard86

[Schizophonia]

Everything God imagines is real, that’s all it is.
 

[Razard86]

35 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Everything God imagines is real, that’s all it is.
 

You don't know what REAL is then. REAL is a construction. Your video game is just as real as what you call REAL LIFE, but it cannot fool you. A badly written movie cannot pull you in. What you call REAL is immersion. Life has to immerse you into its experience. If you walked around with an invulnerable body and could phase something in and out of existence you couldn't fool yourself that you weren't God. To fool yourself that you aren't God and make that deception REAL takes artistic design of the highest level. 

Do you know how long it took movies to be able to even imitate life at the highest level? To immerse you into the experience and make the movie feel real? That's the point. If you cannot feel that being a human is REAL, then its because it wasn't constructed in a way that makes it believable. There are LEVELS to real. A video game is REAL, but if I told you that the video game is just as real as your human life you would argue it. Why?

Because losing your house in Grand Theft Auto isn't going to threaten your survival like losing your house in your human life. That's the point. By creating survival, God created REAL.

[Gidiot]

I don’t have a problem with mortality/survival the deception of life. But I really don’t buy that I would get bored of infinity and omniscience, just look at all the entertainment that mere humans can produce, you don’t think god could entertain itself without deception for eternity.
 

Just don’t think that self deception is inevitable and a cycle of awakening and going back to sleep is what is waiting, god is too free or at least me as god doesn’t want that to be true. Makes you think if it’s all cyclical and there is no growth or permanent transformation then there really is no use to the struggle or meaning to survive. Just empirically. There’s got to be a higher understanding and transcendence of mundane survival and unawareness ignorance. 
 

I’ve never once sprained my ankle and been like jee I want to repeat that again And again for eternity. And if I told someone the truth and they realized it, it benefited their life from awakening to said truth, I would hate to see them wake up with amnesia and go back to ignorance if it’s the natural order of things fine it can’t be changed, but I would never willingly reneg on progress just to entertain myself.

 

If you watch a movie for the first time it has a magic to it,  the second time, still good but it’s lost something, which makes me think it’s not going to be the cycle forever. Infinity is too grand to repeat itself for eternity.

 

[Javfly33]

vaya rollos metes tio 

[Razard86]

6 hours ago, Gidiot said:

I don’t have a problem with mortality/survival the deception of life. But I really don’t buy that I would get bored of infinity and omniscience, just look at all the entertainment that mere humans can produce, you don’t think god could entertain itself without deception for eternity.
 

Just don’t think that self deception is inevitable and a cycle of awakening and going back to sleep is what is waiting, god is too free or at least me as god doesn’t want that to be true. Makes you think if it’s all cyclical and there is no growth or permanent transformation then there really is no use to the struggle or meaning to survive. Just empirically. There’s got to be a higher understanding and transcendence of mundane survival and unawareness ignorance. 
 

I’ve never once sprained my ankle and been like jee I want to repeat that again And again for eternity. And if I told someone the truth and they realized it, it benefited their life from awakening to said truth, I would hate to see them wake up with amnesia and go back to ignorance if it’s the natural order of things fine it can’t be changed, but I would never willingly reneg on progress just to entertain myself.

 

If you watch a movie for the first time it has a magic to it,  the second time, still good but it’s lost something, which makes me think it’s not going to be the cycle forever. Infinity is too grand to repeat itself for eternity.

 

I said the point was to make it real, not entertainment. Entertainment is a part, but the point was to make REAL!!! An omnipotent creator cannot know REAL, because they are invulnerable. The only reason a video game isn't real to you is because you don't experience pain and suffering at the highest level. 

If I cut off your leg with a chainsaw it feels real. Real is IMMERSION! If you reached God consciousness and I used a chainsaw to cut off your leg....it wouldn't feel REAL. You would be in love with it and wouldn't care. I'm explaining that things have to be the way they are for it to be real. You will only understand this if you deconstruct the Dream enough. I have...it didn't feel REAL anymore. I destroyed REAL and it became fake LOL. So understand it needs to operate the way it needs to, to be REAL. 

[Razard86]

6 hours ago, Gidiot said:

I don’t have a problem with mortality/survival the deception of life. But I really don’t buy that I would get bored of infinity and omniscience, just look at all the entertainment that mere humans can produce, you don’t think god could entertain itself without deception for eternity.
 

Just don’t think that self deception is inevitable and a cycle of awakening and going back to sleep is what is waiting, god is too free or at least me as god doesn’t want that to be true. Makes you think if it’s all cyclical and there is no growth or permanent transformation then there really is no use to the struggle or meaning to survive. Just empirically. There’s got to be a higher understanding and transcendence of mundane survival and unawareness ignorance. 
 

I’ve never once sprained my ankle and been like jee I want to repeat that again And again for eternity. And if I told someone the truth and they realized it, it benefited their life from awakening to said truth, I would hate to see them wake up with amnesia and go back to ignorance if it’s the natural order of things fine it can’t be changed, but I would never willingly reneg on progress just to entertain myself.

 

If you watch a movie for the first time it has a magic to it,  the second time, still good but it’s lost something, which makes me think it’s not going to be the cycle forever. Infinity is too grand to repeat itself for eternity.

 

Repeat and not repeat is a distinction you are creating by the way. They are the same thing. You are still thinking too limited. New and old are the same thing. Everything already happened, and nothing ever happened are the same thing. Really open your mind. 

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Repeat and not repeat is a distinction you are creating by the way. They are the same thing. You are still thinking too limited. New and old are the same thing. Everything already happened, and nothing ever happened are the same thing. Really open your mind. 

This is the part of his post where I was going to object to but you did it already and you'll sound more convincing than I would have so there. The mind thinks in linearity.

[vibv]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

I have...it didn't feel REAL anymore. I destroyed REAL and it became fake LOL.

Care to expound?

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, vibv said:

Care to expound?

Sure thing. You are the creator. The creator is what is really REAL not its comparison in relation to it.

A good example would be think of Disney's Aladdin. Pretend you are living in that world and then realize you are drawing Aladdin in real time, then you realize you are generating his voice, so picture becoming aware that you are creating him/generating him, and making him speak because his voice is your voice. He ceases to feel real. If you created a character right now, wrote a story, animated him, and voiced him. 

If you kept telling yourself as you watch your creation that you created him and you made everything up out of nothing....it can't be real. You have to suspend your belief and ignore all that to enjoy it as if its real. But notice...you don't feel pain, or suffering, or potential demise. Now put yourself in that world as the character, experience pain, suffering, and potential loss of your life as the character or those you care about. Now you have REAL.

So REAL is limitation, stakes, temptation, triumph, failure, and all the other stuff we complain about. If you strip life of this...life is unreal. If you ever deconstruct the whole thing...you will eventually run back because you LOVE REAL!!! REAL is the only thing to do!!! But REAL is tough, its why every version of you that you see, can't be blamed for anything. They are all innocent. Because....they are you. Every version of life you see is acting as you would. Its actually part of the reason I get anoyyed sometimes on here. I'm like come on other version of me, you seriously talking down about yourself? There is no other...just you, creation is a lie, that is only real because of pain and suffering. Without pain and suffering and a beginning and end to the story....can't have real. 

So death, pain, suffering= Truth. And love can only be experienced when pain, suffering, and death exist within a storyline. How can that which is eternal, unlimited, and invulnerable...know anything? Sure it can think conceptually? But how would it know what it would actually do/act unless it thrust itself into well....EVERYTHING? Shit is scary as hell thinking about it from the character point of view. It's like EVERYTHING? Man that is some crazy shit!!!

Also remember....before your first memory of your life is BLANK...that BLANK is you LOL. How can Something appear from blank...easy...ITS GOD. GOD is an eternal BLANK that has always been and will always be. LOL. Also notice you can imagine blank....by NOT imagining anything....lol. The absence of an appearance of something. Crazy huh?

Edited October 11, 2023 by Razard86

[Gidiot]

it certainly doesn’t feel real to me.

There an obvious creation mechanism which I can’t understand yet but I’m subtly aware of. And if it’s all relative and the absolute is already here there’s really not volition and time either and I’m not going back to “real” it just always has been and always will be what it is, and we are speaking in linear human stories as you guys said.

 

There's

no cycle or awakening to what already is.
 

there’s just a hollow character moving through apparent appearances 

 

also I never thought that real and fake was a hard line which also is a duality that needs to collapse. Also what’s wrong with loving everything as god? I don’t see a problem with indifference to pain and suffering as long as you have empathy and understanding of the impact of it

 

and maybe I am just weird but I have never wished I had suffering or struggle, not once, and I don’t like resistance and friction in reality/the dream, I’m actually quite the upopian and I’m disputing that god would ever get tired or bored of not having suffering and pain and want to embody into a fake character to experience it.  The fact that it’s apparently happening now doesn’t change the fact that a more enlightened awareness would choose otherwise and I’m speaking from experience I wouldn’t choose that and if “you as god don’t see it as suffering” then it’s already a moot point because then that seems everything I value as human irrelevant too because gods true perspective trumps mine

Edited October 12, 2023 by Gidiot

[Gidiot]

11 hours ago, Razard86 said:

I said the point was to make it real, not entertainment. Entertainment is a part, but the point was to make REAL!!! An omnipotent creator cannot know REAL, because they are invulnerable. The only reason a video game isn't real to you is because you don't experience pain and suffering at the highest level. 

If I cut off your leg with a chainsaw it feels real. Real is IMMERSION! If you reached God consciousness and I used a chainsaw to cut off your leg....it wouldn't feel REAL. You would be in love with it and wouldn't care. I'm explaining that things have to be the way they are for it to be real. You will only understand this if you deconstruct the Dream enough. I have...it didn't feel REAL anymore. I destroyed REAL and it became fake LOL. So understand it needs to operate the way it needs to, to be REAL. 

I thought the whole point of making it real was for gods entertainment?
 

*what does god want to do?*

A: well it knows everything and it knows it’s everything, but it wants to experience that everything. 
 

okay but why experience anything at all if not for the fun/entertainment/ love  of it?

Why not just be a blank slate forever?

 

I think entertainment is a big part of it and it’s what humans spend too much of their time doing as well.

maybe I’m not entertained as much by suffering/struggle and not in love with that as a human. And that is obviously because I’m biased towards harmony/survival and evolution to higher states of consciousness

 

but let’s be honest if we all knew the agenda of god then why even perform a single action as a human .

you know how it’s all going to pan out, there’s no need to act unless you have a selfish desire or formulation for the world to be a certain way rather than it is right now and how god intended it

 

there is a subtle ignorance in all of our assertions and my question would be if you disagree with this statement what is the agenda of god? 
 

seems like I was born in chains (humanity) and there is a need to transcend it. I’m not a fan of limitation and would never seek it out if there was a clear cut alternative which I believe there to be. I’ve graduated from school and rightly and justly would never go back to learn the same stuff.

 

its very paradoxical. I just don’t get why you could have the awareness that you’re going to go back to struggle and suffering and then have any desire or violation to escape it in the first place. There needs to be a balance man

 

my most charitable understanding is that suffering, “making life real”, struggle, bad thing and evil  is all a device created by god for understanding itself more at a deeper level,love itself more,

 

and you can call me biased but even with that understanding  I’m  not seeking that shit out.

There’s a reason your development gets easier and faster when you live in a hospitable environment, some struggle is unavoidable but Sadhguru asks a simple question,

 

“if you could create misery or bliss which would you create?”

and the answer to me is unequivocally bliss and I don’t see how god would choose the opposite and no sane human would either

Edited October 12, 2023 by Gidiot

[vibv]

8 hours ago, Razard86 said:

So death, pain, suffering= Truth. And love can only be experienced when pain, suffering, and death exist within a storyline.

My cat I’ve known for only 2 weeks but loved dearly died tragically last week. The pain and sadness I felt especially during a shroom trip a few days ago was the most real thing I experienced in a long time.

It was so heartbreaking and beautiful at the same time.

I would have never wanted it if „I“ had the choice of course, but I see the greater picture. It’s like going double-tracked through life.

[Schizophonia]

On 10/10/2023 at 0:18 PM, Razard86 said:

You don't know what REAL is then. REAL is a construction. Your video game is just as real as what you call REAL LIFE, but it cannot fool you. A badly written movie cannot pull you in. What you call REAL is immersion. Life has to immerse you into its experience. If you walked around with an invulnerable body and could phase something in and out of existence you couldn't fool yourself that you weren't God. To fool yourself that you aren't God and make that deception REAL takes artistic design of the highest level. 

Do you know how long it took movies to be able to even imitate life at the highest level? To immerse you into the experience and make the movie feel real? That's the point. If you cannot feel that being a human is REAL, then its because it wasn't constructed in a way that makes it believable. There are LEVELS to real. A video game is REAL, but if I told you that the video game is just as real as your human life you would argue it. Why?

Because losing your house in Grand Theft Auto isn't going to threaten your survival like losing your house in your human life. That's the point. By creating survival, God created REAL.

Real is just a vague concept, you assign whatever semantics you want to it.

[Dazgwny]

Raz is correct here

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, Dazgwny said:

Raz is correct here

I'm glad you understand.

 

6 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Real is just a vague concept, you assign whatever semantics you want to it.

Lol ignorance. If I cut off your finger you wouldn't call that a concept.

 

8 hours ago, Gidiot said:

I thought the whole point of making it real was for gods entertainment?
 

*what does god want to do?*

A: well it knows everything and it knows it’s everything, but it wants to experience that everything. 
 

okay but why experience anything at all if not for the fun/entertainment/ love  of it?

Why not just be a blank slate forever?

 

I think entertainment is a big part of it and it’s what humans spend too much of their time doing as well.

maybe I’m not entertained as much by suffering/struggle and not in love with that as a human. And that is obviously because I’m biased towards harmony/survival and evolution to higher states of consciousness

 

but let’s be honest if we all knew the agenda of god then why even perform a single action as a human .

you know how it’s all going to pan out, there’s no need to act unless you have a selfish desire or formulation for the world to be a certain way rather than it is right now and how god intended it

 

there is a subtle ignorance in all of our assertions and my question would be if you disagree with this statement what is the agenda of god? 
 

seems like I was born in chains (humanity) and there is a need to transcend it. I’m not a fan of limitation and would never seek it out if there was a clear cut alternative which I believe there to be. I’ve graduated from school and rightly and justly would never go back to learn the same stuff.

 

its very paradoxical. I just don’t get why you could have the awareness that you’re going to go back to struggle and suffering and then have any desire or violation to escape it in the first place. There needs to be a balance man

 

my most charitable understanding is that suffering, “making life real”, struggle, bad thing and evil  is all a device created by god for understanding itself more at a deeper level,love itself more,

 

and you can call me biased but even with that understanding  I’m  not seeking that shit out.

There’s a reason your development gets easier and faster when you live in a hospitable environment, some struggle is unavoidable but Sadhguru asks a simple question,

 

“if you could create misery or bliss which would you create?”

and the answer to me is unequivocally bliss and I don’t see how god would choose the opposite and no sane human would either

I've been in that bliss for a ridiculously long time and realized eventually you seek more. God can conceptually know everything, but to experience it is something else. When you are an infinite intelligence, why would you not do what we are currently doing? When you awaken to a high enough state of consciousness you will understand. A human level of consciousness is not sufficient. 

You need to deconstruct yourself out of your human identity. Human identity= ignorance. Now I'm not saying I can answer every single question right now. But what I can say is that you can find ANY answer you want at a sufficient level of consciousness. Because at the end of the day you are the ONLY authority.

[vibv]

22 hours ago, Razard86 said:

You need to deconstruct yourself out of your human identity. Human identity= ignorance. Now I'm not saying I can answer every single question right now. But what I can say is that you can find ANY answer you want at a sufficient level of consciousness. Because at the end of the day you are the ONLY authority.

How did you do it? Did you use/develop techniques or was it more spontaneously, or both?

[AerisVahnEphelia]

@Razard86 I call immersion being delusional.

Raz is one of the most enlightened on this forum even if sometimes he trick himself about more stuff.

Or I might just trick myself again about level of awareness and consciousness.

The division between anything is just an event.

You dividing or uniting anything.

It's just big bang every seconds, every moment.

You're not in control. But that means nothing because it just happen now. We don't know what happen after now. Might be more now.

[Razard86]

50 minutes ago, vibv said:

How did you do it? Did you use/develop techniques or was it more spontaneously, or both?

1. Enter an altered state.

2. Have studied the concepts of Non-Duality that you understand it enough that its not bullshit to you. You can't fake this shit. If you don't understand it, it won't happen. That is the whole point of the teachings.

3. Under the altered state start stripping away your beliefs that you have been educated into. Focus on what is true in your direct experience not on what the content of the dream has taught you through education and science. You can only do this if you truly understand intellectually that there is no difference between your dreams at night and what you call your regular life (waking dream).

4. If you follow the above steps, an existential fear is going to arise. Sit and allow it. This will be the MOMENT OF TRUTH. You will discover in this moment if you really want to awaken or not. 

5. Now don't beat yourself up if you retreat back to the safety of your character identity. Because this is the hardest thing you can ever do. You are killing the dream of duality, of individuality, so it can be jarring. But the great thing is you got to experience the existential fear and now this process is REAL to you. That fear isn't an accident. It points to the fact that YOU as presently constructed will DIE. Your body will remain, but you will cause a permanent shift in your experience if you go further. 

The fear is there to test how badly you want it. If you want it, that fear won't stop you and you will do it again until you accomplish it. So how do you accomplish it? Do the steps, sit in the fear, and it will happen on its own. Your mind will deconstruct itself on its own since you sufficiently convinced yourself that you do not agree with your original construction of reality. This will start a several months long process of your body rewiring your neurological system to make the experience of Oneness PERMANENT. 

One of the parts of this process gave me a terribly bad trip where I felt like I was getting raped metaphysically. Why? Because I was becoming ONE with everything on such a deep level it was like everything was penetrating me and entering me. LOL. Talk about invasion of privacy. Now why did it feel like this? Because my sense of a body became everything around me. So it felt like the whole world was entering my body like someone trying to share the same clothes as you as you are wearing it. 

Anyway at the time I realize it only felt like a violation because in comparison to my normal experience it felt alien, and wrong. Now it's natural and normal. It's so obvious that reality is ONE because that is my lived experience, no different than you feeling like a separate individual. I both experience Oneness, and Duality at the same time. 

If you want an example how to do it. Watch this video by Leo.

You can just listen to this video over and over with an open mind and if you believe what is being stated in this video as truth...it will happen on its own. Repeat this until it happens. IT WILL, if you want it.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Razard86

[Inliytened1]

@Razard86 it's not going to be real if you have nothing to lose.  So you have to make yourself limited in a world beyond your limitations.   It's quite simple yet brilliant.  God added the quality of feeling to it to really bring it home.  Thus - even if you beat the game and wake up as God, it's still gonna hurt like hell to have your arm cut off - or to get ALS.  But that said, after you beat the game you see through the physical pain as just part of the dream.   It's a bit harder to do, but can be achieved nonetheless. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Inliytened1