New War In Israel / Gaza

[Danioover9000]

@Raze

3 hours ago, Raze said:

 

 

   No different than the Russian military.

[Bobby_2021]

Saudi Arabia bombed tf out of Yemen and they have not received even a quarter of the criticism from the internal community  that Israel has got. 

One important lesson is this: People are going to judge you on the standards you set for yourself.

 

[LSD-Rumi]

8 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Saudi Arabia bombed tf out of Yemen and they have not received even a quarter of the criticism from the internal community  that Israel has got. 

One important lesson is this: People are going to judge you on the standards you set for yourself.

 

It didn't kill as much Israel did. What Israel did during those 5 months is comically horrific.

Also, Israeli commanders showed their intentions as revengful rather than mere self defence which is very worrying considering some of their politics expressed directly or indirectly their fantasies of eliminating Palestinians.

But, yeah the Palstenian-Israeli conflict recieves much more attention than other conflicts. For example what is happening in Sudan right now is very concerning but it doesn't recieve any significant attention.

Edited March 10 by LSD-Rumi

[Bobby_2021]

All your ideals will fly out of the window the moment you head a gun shot outside. Almost all of the Palestinian supporters are falling for this fallacy all the time. War time ideas are wholly different from peace time ideas. Throw out everything you learned from actualized, because it will not fly here. It will not help you defend against terrorists.

You do not negotiate with terrorists. You do not make deals with them. You eliminate them.

The longer you are willing to tolerate terrorists, the more they terrorize you. It is number one priority to eliminate the terrorists. There should be no ceasefire until the terrorists cease to exist.

The best way to do that is to level their tunnel infrastructure to the ground or below it. At some point, enough is enough. 

[Bobby_2021]

20 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

It didn't kill as much Israel did. What Israel did during those 5 months is comically horrific.

Also, Israeli commanders showed their intentions as revengful rather than mere self defence which is very worrying considering some of their politics expressed directly or indirectly their fantasies of eliminating Palestinians.

Quote

According to the UN, over 150,000 people have been killed in Yemen,[131] as well as estimates of more than 227,000 dead as a result of an ongoing famine and lack of healthcare facilities due to the war.

Quote

CNN reported on 8 April 2015 that almost 10,160,000 Yemenis were deprived of water, food, and electricity as a result of the conflict. The report also added per source from UNICEF officials in Yemen that within 15 days, some 100,000 people across the country were dislocated, while Oxfam said that more than 10 million Yemenis did not have enough food to eat, in addition to 850,000 half-starved children. Over 13 million civilians were without access to clean water.

Quote

The United Nations Development Programme published a report in September 2019 that said if the war continues, Yemen will become the poorest country in the world, with 79% of the population living below the poverty line and 65% in extreme poverty by 2022.

Quote

On 3 December 2019, the International Day of Persons with Disabilities, Amnesty International released a report highlighting how the almost 5-year old Yemen war has left millions of people living with disabilities and excluded from medical attention. The armed conflict led by Saudi Arabia and UAE as part of the former's coalition in the Arab nation against Houthis and terror groups, has given birth to the worst humanitarian crisis, as stated by the United Nations.[261]

Humanitarian aid provided to Houthi-controlled Yemen will be scaled-down in March 2020 because donors doubt if it's actually reaching the people in need, UN official said.[262]

 

Edited March 10 by Bobby_2021

[LSD-Rumi]

@Bobby_2021 Israel likes to show itself as a developes democracy. But during this war, the world saw its real nature and it was shocked to the core.

[LSD-Rumi]

@Bobby_2021 How many people died of direct bombing? Gazan population is much smaller than that of Yemen. Also a lot more people would have died of famine if not for the intervention of many nations.

[Bobby_2021]

Just now, LSD-Rumi said:

@Bobby_2021 Israel likes to show itself as a developes democracy. But during this war, the world saw its real nature and it was shocked to the core.

Exactly my point. You can shit on Israel as much as you want since they are holding themselves to a higher standard. Saudi do not have any such standards, bombs indiscriminately and no one will criticize them since they are a Muslim country. 

I am pointing out this hypocrisy. 

War reveals your "true" human nature. This is a reasonable response to terrorism. You have no grasp for the damage these terrorists can do to the world when we tolerate them.  You need some other "fascist" to take them out. And they will be taken out. There is no place in the world for terrorism.

On top of that democracy is imposing peace with violence. There is nothing out of the ordinary here.

[LSD-Rumi]

@Bobby_2021 As the world beoming more developed, it is upholding higher standards to human rights in war. Israel reaction was very overblown and shocked the world especially with the presence of social media.

Israel bombed the hell out of Gaza for two reasons:

• It wanted to take a revenge and satisfy the the Israeli population who was filled with rage over what happened. The Government wanted to compensate for ots failure in protecting borders by bombing the hell out of Gaza.
• Israel wanted to minimize its soldiers casualties and military losses by aggresive bombing before land invasion. So civilians life is not a concern compared to this goal.

I can undestand and relate to the POV of Israel but the problem was that the bombing was inhumanely aggresive. It like nothing we have seen before. Israel basically turned Gaza into ashes. Gazan people lost their homes, properties and everything they worked hard for, for decades.

Edited March 10 by LSD-Rumi

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

All your ideals will fly out of the window the moment you head a gun shot outside. Almost all of the Palestinian supporters are falling for this fallacy all the time. War time ideas are wholly different from peace time ideas. Throw out everything you learned from actualized, because it will not fly here. It will not help you defend against terrorists.

You do not negotiate with terrorists. You do not make deals with them. You eliminate them.

The longer you are willing to tolerate terrorists, the more they terrorize you. It is number one priority to eliminate the terrorists. There should be no ceasefire until the terrorists cease to exist.

The best way to do that is to level their tunnel infrastructure to the ground or below it. At some point, enough is enough. 

I think if most people had terrorists outside their home peoples minds would change. It is easy to judge from a western country on the other side of the world. I do try and understand that life in Israel is hard. The issue people have is the civilian deaths. 25,000 women and children dead is really unacceptable and not justified. You aren’t just fighting a war with an army against another army. You can’t use the hamas hide behind civilians narrative either. It’s gone way beyond that now.  All the world is seeing is collective punishment, which is a war crime. Nothing to be proud of. 

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@Bobby_2021 Israel likes to show itself as a developes democracy. But during this war, the world saw its real nature and it was shocked to the core.

Exactly. They have shown themselves to be not developed and very much middle eastern/arab in their behaviour. 

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

I think if most people had terrorists outside their home peoples minds would change.

Let’s also notice the “terrorist” inside our own minds. How it creates doubts, insecurities, and irrational fears in you. Like an invisible bully. 

[Nivsch]

40 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

Exactly. They have shown themselves to be not developed and very much middle eastern/arab in their behaviour. 

This is true to Ben Gvir party.

Not to 90% of the Israelis who are westerners average and developed just like the west.

This paragraph goes very deep (in my opinion) into the psychological complexity of all of us but seems the strongest (on average) in the west left.

This is not to say we don't have to be humane as possible in this war, we have to. But this is still a worth thinking and learning from statement.

Edited March 10 by Nivsch

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Merkabah Star said:

You can’t use the hamas hide behind civilians narrative either

Hamas will and should cease to exist. They can choose their final tomb. Doesn't matter that they are amidst civilians. Hamas tunnels will be destroyed.

Hamas is the one committing war crimes by using civilians as a human sheild. This is not enough to deter Israel. 

2 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Israel.  Hamas basically turned Gaza into ashes. Gazan people lost their homes, properties and everything they worked hard for, for decades.

Corrected it for you. 

[Bobby_2021]

Israel is following the war ethics from what I hear in the news. Before bombing a building they will announce to vacate it. They follow all standards of a modern ethical military.

I understand your concern.

Bombing civilians.

They are sadly and unfortunately the collateral damage. It's not easy to get rid of terrorism. There is a heavy price to pay. That's the only way to deal with terrorists & cowards.  But the price for tolerating terrorism is going to be brutal manifold. 

Whatever the world should not tolerate terrorism. Democracy and liberalism doesn't mean you give a free pass to terrorism. 

[Raze]

8 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Israel is following the war ethics from what I hear in the news. Before bombing a building they will announce to vacate it. They follow all standards of a modern ethical military.

 

Not true, they do not use the warning bomb policy currently

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking#2023_Israel–Hamas_war

example, here bombed residents said they received no notice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_camp_airstrikes_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war#cite_ref-80

Edited March 10 by Raze

[Nivsch]

13 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Hamas will and should cease to exist. They can choose their final tomb. Doesn't matter that they are amidst civilians. Hamas tunnels will be destroyed.

Hamas is the one committing war crimes by using civilians as a human sheild. This is not enough to deter Israel. 

Corrected it for you. 

+1 🧡

[Raze]

20 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Hamas will and should cease to exist. They can choose their final tomb. Doesn't matter that they are amidst civilians. Hamas tunnels will be destroyed.

Hamas is the one committing war crimes by using civilians as a human sheild. This is not enough to deter Israel. 

Corrected it for you. 

Just FYI, Israel hasn’t actually presented proof all or even most of the civilian deaths are the result of human shields. In fact in this conflict I haven’t seen evidence of any human shields being used so far. Civilians just living in the area where you are bombing is not being used as a human shield.

Amnesty international investigated the previous war and did not find evidence of Hamas using human shields during that conflict for example, even though thousands of civilians were killed

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MDE2111782015ENGLISH.pdf#page47

There also was evidence of Israel using human shields 

https://www.btselem.org/human_shields
 

 

Edited March 10 by Raze

[Nivsch]

@Raze Actually many proofs for that has been displayed by Israel.

To deny the human shield is like to deny oct 7th.

This is the ABC of a terror organization most basic behaviour who has no other chance to survive against a powerful military but through this way.

Edited March 10 by Nivsch

[LSD-Rumi]

46 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Hamas will and should cease to exist. They can choose their final tomb. Doesn't matter that they are amidst civilians. Hamas tunnels will be destroyed.

Hamas is the one committing war crimes by using civilians as a human sheild. This is not enough to deter Israel. 

Corrected it for you. 

Both Hamas and Israel carry the responsibility. Children's blood is on their hands.

I came to Conclude that Hammas doesn't value the life of its own people. They deal with them as their life is nothing valuable when it comes to the ultimate goal which is eradicating Israel.

This is what happens when you become so obsessed about a "rightous" goal and allow yourself to slowly break the barriers of morality to achieve what you call the truth. You slowly will turn into a devil without your knowing. This applies to both Hammas and Israel. 

Edited March 10 by LSD-Rumi