Posted February 7 Before we start this interview....Do you condemn OSHO? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7 (edited) 23 hours ago, Karmadhi said: I read some of your posts and you seem to have a somewhat racist attitude toward Palestinians. You do not seem them as equal to Israelis fundamentally. Dont you think most Palestinians are decent normal people like most people in the world are? Personally I do not see much difference between most Palestinians and Israelis on a fundamental level. I criticized their culture, their atrocities, cheering and total disregard for any honorable principle let alone moral principles. I mean how bankrupt is your culture if you celebrate people who consciously kill innocent civilians as heroes? I am not being racist ...and sure it's important not to dehumanize and to still see nuance but what I said is undeniably true. You can also criticize Israeli/Jewish culture without being anti-Semitic. However in my eyes, Israeli culture is way more respectable as they put value on cutting-edge science, technology, democracy, liberalism and genuine patriotism where people look out for each other and their country. Why don't the Uighurs or Rohingya behave like the Palestinians? Simple, because if they did they would get genocided and the world wouldn't bat an eye. If there was a real threat of genocide for Palestinians, they would never have attacked and started this war. 23 hours ago, Karmadhi said: I find it weird that you are against Russia taking Ukranian land that does not belong to Russia but find it ok when Israel takes Palestinian land that does not belong to them by doing ethnic cleansing. Well, strictly speaking, it's not about land for me. When Russia took over Crimea without spilling blood, I wasn't really that passionate about it. And it kinda kept my innocence intact that bloody wars in Europe is a thing of the past. I just HATE that Russia started this war and brings so much suffering to both Ukrainians (first and foremost) but also Russians. Both peoples I respect but It's not to be underestimated how extremely vicious and ugly Putin's system of governance is. Just look at how Russian propaganda is built on such blatant and unashamed lies. They are not fighting for a legitimate "understandable" cause, if they did they wouldn't depend on blatant lies so much. What will they achieve? A strip of Ukrainian land and an otherwise chill and friendly brotherly nation that now despises them. I know Israel also does propaganda but at least they do it with facts and reasonable points. Also, much of Israeli propaganda is dispelling all kinds of demonizing myths about them. A hallmark of Russian propaganda is demonizing Ukrainians as Neo-Nazis. I actually used to think that Ukraine was to some degree a kind of extreme nazi sympathizing country. Though when I went there I discovered I was being lied to. I felt ashamed. Ukrainians were some of the most chill, fairly liberal, Europe-oriented and least anti-Semitic people on the planet. In many ways Israelis are being demonized in the same way as Ukrainians are by the Russians. But Ironicly I sympathize with both Ukrainians and Russians for different reasons. Well.. with Ukrainians for obvious reasons because they now must heroically defend their land and civilization against a regressive invader. But I also sympathize with Russians because they also get now a lot of hate and are being forced to be more closed off. And there really is something genuinely pure and soulful about Russian culture that Westerners will never understand. Edited February 8 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 Many people like to distinguish between the Palestinians and Hamas but in fact Hamas was elected by almost 50% of the Palestinians. Obviously they made the wrong choice. The easiest thing in life is to play the victim and blame someone else. Guess what? It’s a trap. When you complain about someone else and don’t take responsibility you can never make a change. Each one of us can learn a lot about wars. Hamas members beat civilians, steal humanitarian aid. Source: https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/hamas-members-beat-civilians-steal-humanitarian-aid-received-from-intl-organisations-israel-defence-forces/amp_articleshow/105870965.cms Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vrubel said: criticized their culture, their atrocities, cheering and total disregard for any honorable principle let alone moral principles. I mean how bankrupt is your culture if you celebrate people who consciously kill innocent civilians as heroes? Like Israelis don't do that. They also celebrate Gaza butchers. One of their elected ministers had a portrait in his house of a mass murderer and was a convicted terrorist. So Israelis are not above this either. How will you justify this? Where is your criticism of Israel here? They lost 800 civilians and now cheer kids dying in Gaza. Meanwhile Palestinians have suffered far far far more than Israelis have and they are supposed to be chill about it? Be realistic. I even seen Ukranians cheer when Ukraine bombed Russian civilians 1 month ago. Many Ukranians i see in comment want to see Russia cities turned to ash. When you suffer unjustly you loose humanity. It is not a matter of culture. I think you underestimate the amount of suffering Palestinians have collectively suffered from Israelis that is why you speak like this. Educate yourself about it. Hamas attack is a drop in the ocean in comparison. It is not that Palestine as a culture is as under developed as you make it. Israeli atrocities are far worse in scale and length. This has been going on for decades. Ignoring this makes you not see the full picture. 1 hour ago, Vrubel said: It's not to be underestimated how extremely vicious and ugly Putin's system of governance is. Just look at how Russian propaganda is built on such blatant and unashamed lies. They are not fighting for a legitimate "understandable" cause, if they did they wouldn't depend on blatant lies so much. What will they achieve? A strip of Ukrainian land and an otherwise chill and friendly brotherly nation that now despises them. Fair. Why are they doing it? I like to believe they geniounly see NATO as a threat and want to protect their country's interest. However, I am just speculating. Your opinion on it would be welcomed. 1 hour ago, Vrubel said: I know Israel also does propaganda but at least they do it with facts and reasonable points It is more subtle and clever. More manipulative. Not pure horseshit. But still pure devilry. 1 hour ago, Vrubel said: A hallmark of Russian propaganda is demonizing Ukrainians as Neo-Nazis. I actually used to think that Ukraine was to some degree a kind of extreme nazi sympathizing country I think that is bs propaganda from Russia, Ukranians are clearly not "Nazis"; but from what I saw their current government is quite anti Russian. I think Putin wanted to change that government with a pro Russian one, not annex the country like people claim. Basically he wanted to make Ukraine another Georgia or Belarus. Basically if you are next to Russia you have to be Russia's lap dog when it comes to foreign policy. But you can keep your internal sovereignty. Issue is that America does the same, so it is hard for me to criticize much Russia about it. I mean they did a long embargo on Cuba and even tried invading it when Cuba was anti US country. If Mexico would become pro Russia, like Ukraine became pro Western, I think USA would also invade them or cause a coup and put a new pro US regime there. What do you think? Edited February 8 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 16 minutes ago, Heaven said: Obviously they made the wrong choice. The easiest thing in life is to play the victim and blame someone else. Guess what? It’s a trap. When you complain about someone else and don’t take responsibility you can never make a change. Each one of us can learn a lot about wars. Israel also is playing the victim when the land it illegally stole gets invaded. The victimhood of Israelis is out of this world. I will say it again. Unless Israel admits its horrible decade long policies led to Palestinians hating them that much, they will forever be criticized and ridiculed by most of the world. First step towards fixing a problem is realizing there is one. Israeli policies are the core problem here. Blaming Hamas is just a scapegoat. Those same policies will create another Hamas down the line and peace will never happen. Why is it this hard to understand this? Honestly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: Israel also is playing the victim when the land it illegally stole gets invaded. The victimhood of Israelis is out of this world. I will say it again. Unless Israel admits its horrible decade long policies led to Palestinians hating them that much, they will forever be criticized and ridiculed by most of the world. First step towards fixing a problem is realizing there is one. Israeli policies are the core problem here. Blaming Hamas is just a scapegoat. Those same policies will create another Hamas down the line and peace will never happen. Why is it this hard to understand this? Honestly Again you’re blaming someone else. For policies and regulations. I can also say that I am poor because of taxes etc.. The system isn’t the problem. You are. Ta da. Before the story of “Wrong policies” everyone was talking about the land. Like there is scarcity of land in the Arab world. Lol. Excuses excuses but never taking responsibility. Palestinians chose their government. Their government made a mistake. They pay for it. Simple. It’s the harsh truth but it is what it is. Edited February 8 by Heaven Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 2 hours ago, Vrubel said: I criticized their culture, their atrocities, cheering and total disregard for any honorable principle let alone moral principles. I mean how bankrupt is your culture if you celebrate people who consciously kill innocent civilians as heroes? Israel or USA have nationwide celebrations when they kill innocent civilians. They just do it in uniforms, with shiny medals, and on TV Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Heaven said: Before the story of “Wrong policies” everyone was talking about the land. Their illegal land theft is part of the policies... 38 minutes ago, Heaven said: Like there is scarcity of land in the Arab world It does not matter. When you murder and kick people out of their house they will hate you. It does not matter that there is a big arab dessert next to it. 38 minutes ago, Heaven said: Palestinians chose their government. Their government made a mistake. They pay for it. Simple. It’s the harsh truth but it is what it is. It baffles me how inhumane you Israelis are... Edited February 8 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: Their illegal land theft is part of the policies... It does not matter. When you murder and kick people out of their house they will hate you. It does not matter that there is a big arab dessert next to it. It baffles me how inhumane you Israelis are... Israel is in peace with Germany even after the holocaust. Stop with excuses. Palestinians need to grow up and focus on themselves. Lol your mind was able to justify Hamas actions and you say that Israelis are inhumane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said: Israel or USA have nationwide celebrations when they kill innocent civilians. They just do it in uniforms, with shiny medals, and on TV Maybe the misinformation in your statements is celebrating.. Btw your hate comes from it as well. Edited February 8 by Heaven Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 Great conversation from Chat gbt3: https://chat.openai.com/c/527a8b15-1672-48a5-b5e6-4081884b97fc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 @Twentyfirst 13 hours ago, Twentyfirst said: Before we start this interview....Do you condemn OSHO? Coolest Guru IMO. The only one with 100 something Rolls Royce, and a libary of about 150,000 books, just amazing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 7 hours ago, Heaven said: Israel is in peace with Germany even after the holocaust. Stop with excuses. Palestinians need to grow up and focus on themselves. Well Germany apologized about it many times and did their best to change their ways. Israel not only does not apologize but they elect right wing zionist fascists and double down on their atrocities. No peace will be possible until Israel recognizes decades of oppression. First step toward peace is apology. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 (edited) 7 hours ago, Heaven said: Lol your mind was able to justify Hamas actions and you say that Israelis are inhumane Not justify, you seem not to be able to read. I said it was bad. But what Israel has done and is doing is far worse. What is interesting is that Israel has historically killed far more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis. Yet Palestinians are supposed to be chill with it. But when Palestinians inflict 1/10 of that back to Israelis, they are ok with ethnic cleansing and genociding them. This alone shows how egotistical they truly are. In 2014 alone Israel killed far more Gazans than Hamas ever did. Why do you ignore this? Edited February 8 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 (edited) @Heaven But the anti-Israel side here is attached emotionally to the palestinians. point. No matter what you will say against them, they will always be seen, through the anti-israeli filter here, as the under developed kid who just want to fight for his rights and by that logic they will always symphatize with them no matter how violent and animalistic they will be. Convincing is impossible. Only the more centrist quiet readers here can be somehow convinced. Edited February 8 by Nivsch 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 (edited) 3 hours ago, Nivsch said: no matter how violent and animalistic they will be There is a photo circulating online that has been called "deeply disturbing" by USA of a totally naked Palestinian guy tied to a chair and a IDF soldier is standing in front of him holding a spear (from what I could see). He has a wound on his leg (evidence of torture). Can you explain to me how this is justifiable? EVEN if he is Hamas staff this is totally barbaric and inhumane. Civilized world does not torture POWs and proudly take pictures of it and broadcast it to the world. And we do not even know if he is Hamas. Under all international laws not only torture of POWs is illegal but proudly broadcasting it to the world shows that IDF is not much different from Hamas at this point. Hamas also tortured people and then broadcasted it proudly. And this is 1 case that was actually published. Imagine the dozens and dozens of non published ones. Just see it for yourself, it is really distrubing. I remember leo said once that torture shows the level of development of a country. Highly developed countries do not torture people. Apparently Israel is not much better than Russia at this point. They even proudly show it. Baffling. Edited February 8 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 (edited) @Karmadhi without even see it I choose to believe you and there are crap soldiers and bad husbands and bad human beings everywhere. You won't think differently anyway. No need to prove you anything. Edited February 8 by Nivsch 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 On 2/6/2024 at 8:14 AM, lina said: Basically no evidence has been found. Should be terrifying to Westerners that the elites of their very own 'democracy' are capable of such heartless actions. What happened to innocent till proven guilty and even if found guilty - the proportionate persecution of the wrong doers, not the whole organisation. By that logic many Western institutions should be de-funded, boycotted by the world and dismantled for the actions of the few glorified gangsters in black suits that are among them ie collective punishment. Israel and its allies successfully moved the conversation from 'a plausible case of genocide ruled by the top world court' to 'we'll cut off aid to the most aid-dependent population who have nowhere to flee and who have just been ruled to be under a plausible genocide - all because of unsubstantiated claims by a state that has been proven to lie many times before'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 8 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Nivsch said: without even see it I choose to believe you and there are crap soldiers and bad husbands and bad human beings everywhere. You won't think differently anyway. No need to prove you anything. Issue is that this devilry in Israel does not go punished. A civilized country would punish and make an example out of this. In Israel it does not happen. Hard for it to be punished when half the government are right wing fascists'. Moderate Israelis like yourself cannot do anything, Ben Gvir can. That is the issue. Also I can make the same argument that within 2.2 million Gazans there are couple thousands which are radical savages that kill people and torture them. Yet Palestinians are all called terrorists now. Edited February 8 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
