New War In Israel / Gaza

[Bobby_2021]

11 minutes ago, kenway said:

 

With all due respect, this is just paragraph after paragraph of nonsense.

You have been asking many questions and when I answer it, you don't like it. Reality is dirty. There is no fine solution here. 

And there should be more than two sides to this war. 

And I am not saying your position is flawed here so something. You are totally valid in protesting for the lives of civilians. I am just focusing on the larger issue at play here which does not contradict your position. The larger issue is terrorism spreading worldwide resulting in even more human costs in the long run.

---

The Houthi problem today will not have happened if Biden did not revoke his involvement from Yemen back in 2021 and he took them out the list of global terrorists' group, just so that he can have the opposite position as Trump.  But they ignored it even at the Request of Saudi and real Yemense govt and not they are choking the global maritime supply. 

You cannot postpone war. You can only end it quickly.

Edited January 18 by Bobby_2021

[Nivsch]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The Palestinians are so underdeveloped they shoot themselves in the foot a bunch.

I though about it today, and I think there is a problem in the assumption that just because the palestinians are stage red and therefore allegedly more "stupid" (or something similar) they are not responsible for what is happening. 

Because development is anyway always a relative notion and Israel is also underdeveloped relative to a tier 2 society for example, and we can continue this forever.

I am talking about my thinking and not trying to say I am more or less right, but what I think is that even a stage red person still has its infinite brain resources and intelligence to promote its goals. His body for example is still magically incomprehensibly intelligent. So too his brain and mind in the same way.

What I am trying to say is that the thought that hamas are just stupid suicial organization is far from the truth. They just aren't developed morally and in their consciousness to themselves and others essense and value, but with their ability to manipulate their way to survive they can still be genius. And they are in a sense. 

Look how clever their deffense mechanism is in the way thay act physically and getting mixed with civilians and, also (many will argue but) in how they make the crowd opinion be twisted against their enemy. I am not saying Israel doesn't have part in this, but the distance between the accustions against Israel and reality is enormous to my opinion.

If we extrapulate this out to the whole conflict, then we cannot any more see the palestinians as just "reactants" to Israel policies, but an active participant in this tango has equal reaponsibility to initiate trust building actions by itself too and not just to cry about things the other side is doing. 

By the way, they cry, or complain (if to be fair and use a neutral word) equaly and even harder just after revolutionary agreements, what proves that the core of the problem is an inner problem with their mind that try always to preserve his bad homeostasis state (for example the 2nd Intifada after the large series of agreements in the 90's).

Every one has equal responsibility to challenge himself and get himself out of an unfunctional disordered situation, be it an inner within him or an outer disorder. Because the truth is, no one can help the palestinians out their disfunctional thinking patterns but themselves.

And for the protocol, yes, the Jews, like every other group, have their own weaknesses too, but they are found in another areas.

Edited January 19 by Nivsch

[kenway]

4 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You have been asking many questions

 

I have asked you one question.

 

12 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You have been asking many questions and when I answer it, you don't like it. Reality is dirty. There is no fine solution here. 

And there should be more than two sides to this war. 

And I am not saying your position is flawed here so something. You are totally valid in protesting for the lives of civilians. I am just focusing on the larger issue at play here which does not contradict your position. The larger issue is terrorism spreading worldwide resulting in even more human costs in the long run.

---

The Houthi problem today will not have happened if Biden did not revoke his involvement from Yemen back in 2021 and he took them out the list of global terrorists' group, just so that he can have the opposite position as Trump.  But they ignored it even at the Request of Saudi and real Yemense govt and not they are choking the global maritime supply. 

You cannot postpone war. You can only end it quickly.

 

It's not that I don't like it, it's just that you're coming at the problem from a position of simplicity and subjectivity, which has the net result of garbled nonsense that doesn't really have any authority or connection to the actualities of the situation, let alone the broader Middle East.

For example, how are you even defining the word "terrorist" or "terrorism"? When you say:-

 

"If my mom is living beside terrorists, then it's a matter of time before she gets bombed anyway."

 

You surely have to recognise how ridiculous that sounds. What is your definition of terrorism?

Have you considered or factored in that many people in the world regard Israel as the terrorists?

Are you even aware that Israel was founded by terrorism? Militant Zionist terrorist groups such as the Irgun, or the Stern Gang, or even the Haganah, most of which simply became parts of the regular Israeli military post 1948, not least the Mossad?

What are you thoughts, say, on Israel's bombing of the King David Hotel in 1951, that killed close to 100 people and was achieved while Israeli terrorists were deliberately pretending to be Palestinian Arabs?

What are your thoughts on (for example) Israel fighter jets routinely breaking the sound barrier over Gaza City, way before Hamas even came to power, thus generating sonic booms over Palestinian residents at 3 in the morning, literally terrifying them, night after night?

Can you perhaps start to understand that your relationship with the word "terrorist" might be a little simplistic?

And I haven't got past your first sentence yet.

What is your position on Sabra and Shatila, or Beirut 1982, or 2006? Or Cast Lead? How in your opinion might these events have modulated the Palestinian position on how they regard Israelis?

What are your opinions on the morality of the Nakba? Or maybe even the Intifada? What is your position on ethnostates in general? Do you support them? If so why?

So... it's not really that I don't like what you say, it's more a case that you have a very simplistic and subjective comprehension on the facts, the ignorance of which is literally one of the reasons why this current genocide is taking place right now.

Because if you actually knew, then you would be standing very much against it.

 

[kenway]

 

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

 

So, what you want to happen. They should have done nothing at all and watch it all unfolding Infront of their eyes. How do you plan to get the hostages back? Or should you let them take hostages routinely and let them parade the women they killed? 

Bombing is letting them know of the consequences they could be facing and that might be their end. War is about to continue into the future. I only hope something comes out of it. Both of them fire rockets at each other routinely. Just that the ones fired by Israel lands often.

1. They should have treated the Palestinians fairly in the first place so this never happened.

2. Hamas offered almost right away to return all the hostages in exchange for Israel returning all their “prisoners” (most of whom are held without charges and they have admitted is for political capital, so essentially hostages).

3. Bombing and attacking has resulted if the deaths of many hostages, if they wanted to prioritize hostage safety bombing is absolutely not the answer, they chose revenge.

4. If bombing is so effective, why did oct 7 happen when Israel had already killed tens of thousands during regular bombing raids for decades? Why is it going to suddenly work now?

5. you’re watching what comes from it, this war is the result of prior bombings, the next will be the result of this one. This isn’t new or different, the only change is the IDF lost way more soldiers and Gaza lost way more civilians.

 

[Yimpa]

On 1/17/2024 at 3:47 PM, Leo Gura said:

A good leader does what is right even if the whole world is agianst him.

A bad leader does what is wrong and everyone agrees with him.

[zazen]

12 hours ago, lina said:

Horrific... Remember when we were debating few months ago about who bombed the first hospital? Now NONE are left. 

 

 

And here Netanyahu willing to continue the war into 2025....! 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-says-war-against-hamas-set-to-continue-into-2025-tv-report/  

 

And Galit had said at ICJ that Hospitals aren’t targeted. The same day all Universities have also been destroyed.

IDF had been using it as a military base for a month, and destroyed it by laying over 300 mines - obviously no Hamas presence there or they wouldn’t have been able to use it for a month or lay mines. 
 

If the reason isn’t obviously to destroy Palestinian history or make Gaza uninhabitable then I look forward to the creative reasons.

[jaylimix]

On 1/17/2024 at 7:36 PM, lina said:

@Nivsch you guys (anyone still supporting whatever that's going on) are up for a rude awakening, whether you realize it now or in 50 years, but Israel's image and reputation has been broken for years to come and no amount of justification will fix that.

But don't forget that there are many people on the other side that are now rallying behind Israel because of how the world responded after Oct 7.

- Denial of atrocities

- Silence on sexual crimes

- Laughed about atrocities

- Flip evil around and projected the evils of Hamas onto Israel

- Media blackout on Muslim countries to side with the Palestinians

- Want the destruction of a secular democracy and chose instead the survival of an Islamic terrorist state. Think the PLO is any better than Hamas? Think again. Heard of Pay-to-Slay? https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-768735

- Made Israelis and Jews felt demonized and all alone, angry and sad. https://x.com/mewapawa/status/1748254131247284437?s=20

[jaylimix]

On 1/18/2024 at 5:11 PM, zazen said:

This you?

You’ve made good points before but how can people take you seriously when you’ve said you don’t care about dead Palestinian children?

This forum has a thread enthusiastically trying to understand the Nazi mind and an ultra-Zionist on it lol. Trippy.

Yes that posts about shooting at watermelons is me, big fucking deal, it's aim to antagonize the people with watermelons on their X name.

Those on the side of Palestine also don't care about the dead Israeli children, difference is I am honest, they are not.

But you can read between the lines during their video interviews, online words, and know that to be true.

[jaylimix]

23 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Leo Gura Dont bother with these pro Israelis, they are totally brainwashed.

It is sad that followers of your work can justify devilry of this scale.

LMAO rewatch Leo's video on Radical Open-mindedness.

23 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

It just shows that if they justify these barbarisms even though Israelis have barely suffered under Palestine, imagine the hatred Palestinians must have towards Israelis where they been through 1000x worse for decades.

View this list https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/comprehensive-listing-of-terrorism-victims-in-israel

[jaylimix]

14 hours ago, lina said:

Horrific... Remember when we were debating few months ago about who bombed the first hospital? Now NONE are left. 

So you just take his word for it? I'll quote from this https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145632

Quote:

Only around 16 out of 36 hospitals in Gaza are “minimally or partially functioning” after more than three months of conflict.

End quote.

Your welcome, I spent time finding an unbias and recent source for you.

[jaylimix]

13 hours ago, kenway said:

You are right, I don't understand the woman above.

And I still keep thinking it is all of your fault.

Sorry to bring out a previous posts but here it is again.

Life before fucking around :" No complains, happy, life's good "

After fucking around :" Act like this woman above and below "

But you know what, Plestia actually lives in Gaza, in a warzone, and she is calm;

whereas the nutty on the quoted Twitter post lives in America, FOH, and listen to her accent, it's pure American.

Edited January 19 by jaylimix

[jaylimix]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What lead to Oct 7th was the decades-long Israeli policy of settlement and indefinite stalling of any kind of long-term peace deal that recognizes the rights and soveriegnty of Palestinians.

The Jews will never give up on conquering their God promised holy land.

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And if my "used" you mean some Hamas guy slept in one apartment in a high-rise of 500 units, so what? That doesn't justify destroying the building.

The thing is ground troops need to move in with air support otherwise it is just a suicide mission.

Terrorists would pop in and out of buildings and tunnels and shoot with bullets and RPGs;

you see even with air support, over 170 soldiers have died fighting in Gaza. 

So in conclusion the buildings and tunnels must be destroyed before moving in;

lets not forget about the rockets and rocket launch sites, in case you guys missed it, here are two video:

 

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, jaylimix said:

The thing is ground troops need to move in with air support otherwise it is just a suicide mission.

Terrorists would pop in and out of buildings and tunnels and shoot with bullets and RPGs;

you see even with air support, over 170 soldiers have died fighting in Gaza. 

So in conclusion the buildings and tunnels must be destroyed before moving in;

👍 A decent point.

[jaylimix]

15 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

And I am not saying your position is flawed here so something. You are totally valid in protesting for the lives of civilians. I am just focusing on the larger issue at play here which does not contradict your position. The larger issue is terrorism spreading worldwide resulting in even more human costs in the long run.

I have said it before, why I stand with Israel, and it has to do with The World Order.

I am against the world order by :

Islamic States + Dictatorship + Communism

i.e.

Palestine/Iran + Russia + China + North Korea

Two of the above have already attacked their neighbors;

the CCP is planning conquering Taiwan whilst killing Vietnamese and Philippines fishermen;

North Korea is always threatening and it remains to be seen what they would do.

I stand with Israel, America, and the Allies, the pinnacle of human civilization.

From village chiefs to Monarchy to Congress/Parliament.

From totalitarian to secular democracy.

[jaylimix]

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

👍 A decent point.

My points are always stellar.

[lina]

59 minutes ago, jaylimix said:

Only around 16 out of 36 hospitals in Gaza are “minimally or partially functioning” after more than three months of conflict.

that's good to know thanks for sharing, but the idea that they are "minimally" functioning does indicate that all of them have been subjected to some amount of destruction and prevention of their operation. The main point was about Israel careless bombardment or attack on hospitals, the remaining ones are already on their way for to completely stop operating.  

Two-thirds of Gaza’s hospitals have now ceased functioning and losing Nasser would further curtail the limited trauma care still available. Two other hospitals – al-Aqsa and the Gaza European – are also at risk of closure according to the UN.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/jordan-says-southern-gaza-hospital-badly-damaged-by-israeli-shelling-nearby-2024-01-17/

Gaza: Khan Younis battle threatens biggest hospital still working

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/19/israel-gaza-war-largest-remaining-hospital-nasser-khan-younis-attack-fears-strike 

 

3 hours ago, zazen said:

If the reason isn’t obviously to destroy Palestinian history or make Gaza uninhabitable then I look forward to the creative reasons.

No other creative reasons, It has been officially stated by Netanyahu no Palestinian statehood would be allowed, I don't see any other interpretation for this other than an admission to ethnic cleansing. 

Edited January 19 by lina

[kenway]

[kenway]

https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/statement-unicef-deputy-executive-director-ted-chaiban-upon-conclusion-his-visit

Full statement from UNICEF - 18th Jan 2024:-

GAZA/ NEW YORK, 18 January 2024 - “I have just finished a three-day visit to the Gaza Strip, where I have been able to coordinate with local and international organizations about the emergency response and take stock of humanitarian operations since the last time I was in the Gaza Strip two months ago. But more than that, I was able to meet with children and their families suffering some of the most horrific conditions I have ever seen.

“Since my last visit, the situation has gone from catastrophic to near collapse. UNICEF has described the Gaza Strip as the most dangerous place in the world to be a child. We have said this is a war on children. But these truths do not seem to be getting through. Of the nearly 25,000 people reported to have been killed in the Gaza Strip since the escalation in hostilities, up to 70 per cent are reported to be women and children. The killing of children must cease immediately.

“On Tuesday, I met an 11-year-old girl called Sama at Al-Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis. She was skipping with friends when they were hit by shrapnel from a bombardment. The shrapnel sliced through Sama’s abdomen, forcing her into surgery to remove her spleen. She is recovering in hospital, isolated from everyone around her because she is now immunocompromised in a war zone full of disease and infection.

“10 minutes later I met 13-year-old Ibrahim. He was in a designated shelter with his family, in an area they were told was safe, when everything collapsed around them. Ibrahim’s hand was badly damaged and quickly became infected. Without medicine, gangrene took hold and he ultimately lost his arm during an amputation without anaesthetic. Ibrahim’s mother, Amani, who accompanied him to the south of the strip for life-saving treatment in Al-Nasser asked for help reaching her remaining six children and husband who had remained north of Gaza City. She has not heard from them in two months.

“A matter of hours after we left, many families fled Al-Nasser hospital as fighting closed in on the area.

“Over 1.9 million people, or nearly 85 per cent of Gaza’s population, is now displaced including many who have been displaced multiple times. Over a million of them are in Rafah, resulting in a patchwork of makeshift shelters and sites that have made the small town nearly unrecognisable.

“The sheer mass of civilians on the border is hard to fathom and the conditions they live in are inhumane. Water is scarce and poor sanitation is inescapable. The cold and rain this week created rivers of waste. The little food that is available doesn’t meet children’s unique nutritional needs. As a result, thousands of children are malnourished and sick.

“Two months ago, cases of diarrhoea were up 40 per cent from before the escalation in hostilities. By mid-December, 71,000 cases were recorded among children under five, a more than 4000 per cent increase since the war began.

“This is nothing short of a staggering decline in conditions for the children of Gaza. If this decline persists, we could see deaths due to indiscriminate conflict compounded by deaths due to disease and hunger. We need a major breakthrough.

“This starts with an end to the intense bombardment, which is not only killing thousands, but is also impeding the delivery of aid to survivors. We have to get more trucks in, do so via more crossings, and with far more efficient inspection processes. Before the conflict more than 500 trucks entered the Gaza Strip every day. When I was there in November, about 60 aid trucks a day entered. Now, it is about 130 trucks a day alongside an average of 30 commercial trucks a day. This is with the opening of a second crossing point but it still remains wholly inadequate. We are trying to drip assistance through a straw to meet an ocean of need.

“There must be fewer restrictions on the kind of aid we can bring in, such as generators for water pumps and pipes to repair water facilities, which are critical to restore the water and sanitation services essential for people’s survival.

“Once aid gets into the Gaza Strip, our ability to distribute it becomes a matter of life and death. It is imperative that access restrictions are lifted, reliable ground communications ensured, and movement of humanitarian supplies facilitated to ensure those who have been without aid for days receive desperately needed assistance. And, we have to get commercial traffic flowing in Gaza, so that markets can reopen and families can be less dependent on relief.

“Finally, we need access to the north. The estimated 250,000 to 300,000 people living in north Gaza have no access to clean water and barely any food. In the first two weeks of January, only 7 of 29 planned aid deliveries have successfully reached their destinations in northern Gaza. Not a single UNICEF convoy has accessed the north of the Gaza Strip in 2024.

“Where we have access, we can make a difference. I visited one of the two desalination plants in Khan Younis that UNICEF is supporting and that is providing some water to about 250,000 people. I saw children wearing the winter clothes we brought in and families using soap and sanitary products from hygiene kits that have gotten through. 

“We cannot wait any longer for a humanitarian ceasefire to end the daily killing and injuring of children and their families, enable the urgent delivery of desperately needed aid and the safe and unconditional release of the two remaining Israeli children still held hostage in Gaza. This cannot go on.”

[Nivsch]

A great achievement to Israel.

EU demands the releasing of the hostages as a mandatory condition to a ceasefire.

Some saneness and a fresh air Israel is so needed to.

Edited January 19 by Nivsch