New War In Israel / Gaza

[jaylimix]

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

👍 A decent point.

My points are always stellar.

[lina]

59 minutes ago, jaylimix said:

Only around 16 out of 36 hospitals in Gaza are “minimally or partially functioning” after more than three months of conflict.

that's good to know thanks for sharing, but the idea that they are "minimally" functioning does indicate that all of them have been subjected to some amount of destruction and prevention of their operation. The main point was about Israel careless bombardment or attack on hospitals, the remaining ones are already on their way for to completely stop operating.  

Two-thirds of Gaza’s hospitals have now ceased functioning and losing Nasser would further curtail the limited trauma care still available. Two other hospitals – al-Aqsa and the Gaza European – are also at risk of closure according to the UN.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/jordan-says-southern-gaza-hospital-badly-damaged-by-israeli-shelling-nearby-2024-01-17/

Gaza: Khan Younis battle threatens biggest hospital still working

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/19/israel-gaza-war-largest-remaining-hospital-nasser-khan-younis-attack-fears-strike 

 

3 hours ago, zazen said:

If the reason isn’t obviously to destroy Palestinian history or make Gaza uninhabitable then I look forward to the creative reasons.

No other creative reasons, It has been officially stated by Netanyahu no Palestinian statehood would be allowed, I don't see any other interpretation for this other than an admission to ethnic cleansing. 

Edited January 19, 2024 by lina

[kenway]

[kenway]

https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/statement-unicef-deputy-executive-director-ted-chaiban-upon-conclusion-his-visit

Full statement from UNICEF - 18th Jan 2024:-

GAZA/ NEW YORK, 18 January 2024 - “I have just finished a three-day visit to the Gaza Strip, where I have been able to coordinate with local and international organizations about the emergency response and take stock of humanitarian operations since the last time I was in the Gaza Strip two months ago. But more than that, I was able to meet with children and their families suffering some of the most horrific conditions I have ever seen.

“Since my last visit, the situation has gone from catastrophic to near collapse. UNICEF has described the Gaza Strip as the most dangerous place in the world to be a child. We have said this is a war on children. But these truths do not seem to be getting through. Of the nearly 25,000 people reported to have been killed in the Gaza Strip since the escalation in hostilities, up to 70 per cent are reported to be women and children. The killing of children must cease immediately.

“On Tuesday, I met an 11-year-old girl called Sama at Al-Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis. She was skipping with friends when they were hit by shrapnel from a bombardment. The shrapnel sliced through Sama’s abdomen, forcing her into surgery to remove her spleen. She is recovering in hospital, isolated from everyone around her because she is now immunocompromised in a war zone full of disease and infection.

“10 minutes later I met 13-year-old Ibrahim. He was in a designated shelter with his family, in an area they were told was safe, when everything collapsed around them. Ibrahim’s hand was badly damaged and quickly became infected. Without medicine, gangrene took hold and he ultimately lost his arm during an amputation without anaesthetic. Ibrahim’s mother, Amani, who accompanied him to the south of the strip for life-saving treatment in Al-Nasser asked for help reaching her remaining six children and husband who had remained north of Gaza City. She has not heard from them in two months.

“A matter of hours after we left, many families fled Al-Nasser hospital as fighting closed in on the area.

“Over 1.9 million people, or nearly 85 per cent of Gaza’s population, is now displaced including many who have been displaced multiple times. Over a million of them are in Rafah, resulting in a patchwork of makeshift shelters and sites that have made the small town nearly unrecognisable.

“The sheer mass of civilians on the border is hard to fathom and the conditions they live in are inhumane. Water is scarce and poor sanitation is inescapable. The cold and rain this week created rivers of waste. The little food that is available doesn’t meet children’s unique nutritional needs. As a result, thousands of children are malnourished and sick.

“Two months ago, cases of diarrhoea were up 40 per cent from before the escalation in hostilities. By mid-December, 71,000 cases were recorded among children under five, a more than 4000 per cent increase since the war began.

“This is nothing short of a staggering decline in conditions for the children of Gaza. If this decline persists, we could see deaths due to indiscriminate conflict compounded by deaths due to disease and hunger. We need a major breakthrough.

“This starts with an end to the intense bombardment, which is not only killing thousands, but is also impeding the delivery of aid to survivors. We have to get more trucks in, do so via more crossings, and with far more efficient inspection processes. Before the conflict more than 500 trucks entered the Gaza Strip every day. When I was there in November, about 60 aid trucks a day entered. Now, it is about 130 trucks a day alongside an average of 30 commercial trucks a day. This is with the opening of a second crossing point but it still remains wholly inadequate. We are trying to drip assistance through a straw to meet an ocean of need.

“There must be fewer restrictions on the kind of aid we can bring in, such as generators for water pumps and pipes to repair water facilities, which are critical to restore the water and sanitation services essential for people’s survival.

“Once aid gets into the Gaza Strip, our ability to distribute it becomes a matter of life and death. It is imperative that access restrictions are lifted, reliable ground communications ensured, and movement of humanitarian supplies facilitated to ensure those who have been without aid for days receive desperately needed assistance. And, we have to get commercial traffic flowing in Gaza, so that markets can reopen and families can be less dependent on relief.

“Finally, we need access to the north. The estimated 250,000 to 300,000 people living in north Gaza have no access to clean water and barely any food. In the first two weeks of January, only 7 of 29 planned aid deliveries have successfully reached their destinations in northern Gaza. Not a single UNICEF convoy has accessed the north of the Gaza Strip in 2024.

“Where we have access, we can make a difference. I visited one of the two desalination plants in Khan Younis that UNICEF is supporting and that is providing some water to about 250,000 people. I saw children wearing the winter clothes we brought in and families using soap and sanitary products from hygiene kits that have gotten through. 

“We cannot wait any longer for a humanitarian ceasefire to end the daily killing and injuring of children and their families, enable the urgent delivery of desperately needed aid and the safe and unconditional release of the two remaining Israeli children still held hostage in Gaza. This cannot go on.”

[Nivsch]

A great achievement to Israel.

EU demands the releasing of the hostages as a mandatory condition to a ceasefire.

Some saneness and a fresh air Israel is so needed to.

Edited January 19, 2024 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

@kenway Yes before the war too it was indeed the most dangerous place to be a child in 📖🗡🧨😵‍💫

Edited January 19, 2024 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

16 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

A great achievement to Israel.

EU demands the releasing of the hostages as a mandatory condition to a ceasefire.

Some saneness and a fresh air Israel is so needed to.

Wow! Finally 🙌

[Lila9]

2 hours ago, jaylimix said:

But don't forget that there are many people on the other side that are now rallying behind Israel because of how the world responded after Oct 7.

- Denial of atrocities

- Silence on sexual crimes

- Laughed about atrocities

- Flip evil around and projected the evils of Hamas onto Israel

- Media blackout on Muslim countries to side with the Palestinians

- Want the destruction of a secular democracy and chose instead the survival of an Islamic terrorist state. Think the PLO is any better than Hamas? Think again. Heard of Pay-to-Slay? https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-768735

- Made Israelis and Jews felt demonized and all alone, angry and sad. https://x.com/mewapawa/status/1748254131247284437?s=20

This is so accurate, I'm frustrated with human stupidity and irrationality.

How can modern humans favor a radical, deadly Islamic terrorist organization over a secular democracy? It requires a twisted perception of reality.

It will be laughable as time passes, and people wake up from their delusions, realizing they were on the side holding humanity back.

[Lila9]

On 1/17/2024 at 7:24 AM, zazen said:

 

Lol, what a gross projection and distortion of reality. Look in front of your eyes, why you ignore what Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists organization do to Palestinians and Israelies?

 

[Lila9]

On 1/17/2024 at 7:58 AM, Nivsch said:

@Lila9 Everyone here talks from his or her trauma and childhood experience and this is what determines their side in this conflict basically.

The fact though is that Israel did everything to avoid this war. From a billion dollars smart fence, through 1000s of work permission to Gazans in Israel and millions of dollar poured on Gaza with Israel permission.

However Gaza was already saturated from wealth and money and could be the second Dubai, but it didnt help since every dollar was directed into terror.

Absolutely. They have responsibility to be better, it's not Israel's responsibility to indoctrinate them from their deadly dogma which honors death and terror over their lives and the lives of their children. This ideology is greater than themselves and is spread across he middle east. 

Israel's responsibility is to do everything to protect its people from its enemies and do what it can to promote peace. If there is no partner on the other side who wants peace, as it was already proved so many times that Palestinians and the Arab world don't give a genuine shit about peace and see Israel as a state of subhuman Jews pigs who don't deserve to live autonomously, but only under Islamic rules, then there is nothing Israel can do about it.

It's up to them to leave the victim mentality, develop, improve and be better humans.

[kenway]

18 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@kenway Yes before the war too it was indeed the most dangerous place to be a child in 📖🗡🧨😵‍💫

UNICEF disagrees. Do you know more than UNICEF?

Also, UNICEF have been to Gaza. Have you?

 

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

It will be laughable as time passes, and people wake up from their delusions, realizing they were on the side holding humanity back.

It's not about sides. Hamas and Israel are both devils. It's just that one has better weapons than the other.

[kenway]

@Nivsch

@Lila9

Also, seeing as you're both here. How long did you both serve in the IDF for?

You might want to declare that to the thread for purposes of transparency.

The assumption is that you're no longer being paid by the IDF. Correct?

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2024 by kenway

[Lila9]

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said:

Considering they got their land stolen and treated like shit for decades  they act quite civilized I think. Switch your place with theirs for some months then talk.

Not stolen, Jews were in Israel and lived in Israel for thousands of years.

Even if Palestinians believe that their land was stolen, commiting deadly terror attacks rape, beheading, burning people alive, cutting stomaches doesn't justify this.

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said:

So you suggest they bow down to the thieves that took their land? Most people tend to fight hard for their land. Look at Ukraine. I do not see them bowing down to Russia.

No, just to do the minimum and try to find solutions without killing? I think that would be enough.

Currently Russia stands with Hamas and supports it, which implies about the similarities between the two. Both of them believe in war for resolving territory issues over communication and negotiation, both of them started the wars and not surprisingly they are good allies with North Korea, China, Iran, Syria, and all the most "good" and "advanced", "developed", "stage green+", if not "turquoise" (I thought that maybe yellow would be an insult for them because they are so so developed), countries in the human society who never violated human rights... Interesting 🤔

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said:

The West Bank authority would be down for that if they got some normal terms. Meaning 50/50 split.

But will they stop the terror attacks? I don't think so.

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said:

There are countless articles from respectable sources saying so. If you want to ignore them that is on you

Very likely came from anti-Israel biased sources who simp Hamas.

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said:

The Hamas that your Neo Hitler Leader Benjamin has openly supported and founded? Interesting...

If any way to negotiate doesn't work, money must work, in his stage organge capitalist perception. He tried to bribe them, thinking that he can buy peace. This is his common tactic even in the internal Israel politics. He tried to prove to his loyal followers that he puts Hamas under control. It didn't work, obviously. A deadly Islamic ideology is stronger than money. Hate for Jews and the Israeli state is stronger than money. No matter how much Benjamin will try to bribe them, they will remain the same.

Mr. Benjamin is not a decent human being, which Israelies are trying to get rid of for a long time, he is a curropted leader, with many flaws, and together with his wife and sons, they obviously give the cringe, but Hitler? Lol, not.

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said:

If Israel minded its own business rather than steal land people would not be stuck in Gaza in the first place. From what I saw on the 1947 borders all the areas near Gaza were Palestine. All the areas Hamas attacked are Palestine. I am sorry for what happened to the people there but they do not belong to live there. It is stolen land. You can make the case about Israel existing but the UN plan of 1947 did not include all the areas near Gaza, the same areas Hamas attacked as Israel. Funny when thieves start crying once they are faced with the consequences of their theft.

This is the thing, that Israel minded its own business, was in attempt to create a state for Jews due to the persecution and the Holocoast.

The land was stolen from Jews before it was "stolen" from Arabs. Is stealing from the one who stealing from you is stealing?

What a philosophical question 🤔

 

[Lila9]

28 minutes ago, kenway said:

UNICEF disagrees. Do you know more than UNICEF?

Also, UNICEF have been to Gaza. Have you?

 

It's not about sides. Hamas and Israel are both devils. It's just that one has better weapons than the other.

There is devilry in everything in this world, as there is no good without bad. But, the degree of devilry varies, and while Israel has some level of devilry, Hamas has so much more than that. The devilry level is not the same at all and obviously, it's not smart or conscious to call out the one with the least devilry level over the one with the biggest devilry level, ignoring it and justifying it. 

It's like punishing and demonizing a poor person for stealing from the supermarket products worth $50 while ignoring the rich politician who's stealing his entire career, millions of millions.

 

[kenway]

21 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

There is devilry in everything in this world, as there is no good without bad. But, the degree of devilry varies, and while Israel has some level of devilry, Hamas has so much more than that. The devilry level is not the same at all and obviously, it's not smart or conscious to call out the one with the least devilry level over the one with the biggest devilry level, ignoring it and justifying it. 

It's like punishing and demonizing a poor person for stealing from the supermarket products worth $50 while ignoring the rich politician who's stealing his entire career, millions of millions.

 

But this is predicated on your relationship with Israel, and specifically, your belief that Israel is at war with Hamas, rather than Israel deliberately ethnically cleansing the Palestinian civilians. 

Exercise: If it became clear that the ‘war on hamas’ narrative was actually inaccurate, and rather intended to mask an ethnic cleansing campaign against Palestinian civilians, how would that modulate your position on Israel’s devilry relative to Hamas’s?

[Lila9]

37 minutes ago, kenway said:

@Nivsch

@Lila9

Also, seeing as you're both here. How long did you both serve in the IDF for?

You might want to declare that to the thread for purposes of transparency.

The assumption is that you're no longer being paid by the IDF. Correct?

 

 

 

Two years, as required. And no, I don't get paid by IDF lol, I'm an individual and I talk from my own experience and view of the conflict as an Israeli. 

[kenway]

1 minute ago, Lila9 said:

Two years, as required. And no, I don't get paid by IDF lol, I'm an individual and I talk from my own experience and view of the conflict as an Israeli. 

Thanks. I figured that might the case but I just thought I'd ask.

Appreciated.

[Bobby_2021]

17 hours ago, kenway said:

For example, how are you even defining the word "terrorist" or "terrorism"? When you say:-

All terrorists even look and act the same way. It's not that hard to define what a terrorist looks like. 

For example if Israel was a terrorist state, then you wouldn't be protesting here to stop the bombing. You can do that because there is chance that they might listen.

Actual terrorists do not care.

I am not going to bother defining a terrorist for you. It's willful ignorance.

There is standard definitions for terrorists groups and the states even have their list. What's in here that is worth philosophising about?

Israel is no angel and they have their share of terrorising Palestinians by flying jets above the speed of sound over their homes. In that case they should build a proper government, use the funding they get from Iran, among the supplies from UN to defend themselves instead of resorting to terrorism.

Hamas, Houthi, Hezbollah all are wings of Iran. They are looking for a reason to eliminate Israel. I wish they gets wiped off the map for good as the world could reach more stability.

I trust Israel to get it done. 

3 hours ago, jaylimix said:

Islamic States + Dictatorship + Communism

i.e.

Palestine/Iran + Russia + China + North Korea

This.

2020-29 decade has seen/seeing a temporary decline in globalism and these fringe powers are seeking to grab their pie in a dying attempt as the world moves on to more freedom and liberalism.

They absolutely hate that US is the leader of world and seek to dethrone them using cowardly tactics.

They know that there will be huge backlash from the world for inflicting such destruction on civilians so they choose to build bases right in the middle of civilian infrastructure. They are taking advantage of the liberal values we have and that's their last resort. That's cheap and cowardly. 

[Vrubel]

@Lila9

43 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

There is devilry in everything in this world, as there is no good without bad. But, the degree of devilry varies, and while Israel has some level of devilry, Hamas has so much more than that. The devilry level is not the same at all and obviously, it's not smart or conscious to call out the one with the least devilry level over the one with the biggest devilry level, ignoring it and justifying it. 

It's like punishing and demonizing a poor person for stealing from the supermarket products worth $50 while ignoring the rich politician who's stealing his entire career, millions of millions.

 

 

Exactly, for how evil you think Israel is, Palestinian culture is pretty much rockbottom bankrupt. And with culture I don’t mean any of their Arabic quaintness but how you became a hero of the nation by killing innocent civilians. 
Then people are outraged that this war is so ugly and pamper the Palestinians because they fit their overly redundant narrative of a poor, oppressed people overlooking their absolute moral bankruptcy. You can’t have an honorable war with these kinds of people. In a more honorable situation a fighting party would do everything to save their women and children. They seem to do the exact opposite and glee when their own women and children are “martyred” and they get more pampering from international actors and thus encouraging them.

They totally swim in the compassion and level headedness of Israel and the world but they themselves hold to no standards. 
It’s obvious that 7/10 happened exactly because Palestinians knew they would not get genocided. 

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

How can modern humans favor a radical, deadly Islamic terrorist organization over a secular democracy?

Israel is not a democracy because it does not respect human rights. A democracy treats all as equal. So it is not.

Also it kills far more so it gets more blame. Hamas killed 30 kids, IDF 10.000. Why should we hate on Hamas so much? 30 kids is nothing compared to 10.000. Therefore IDF is more hated.

Numbers matter.