Hurt others' ego as much as possible

[Ajax]

8 hours ago, An young being said:

When it comes to Spirituality, ego is the main obstacle. Whenever we learn some new insight through sold Spiritual practice or other means, it pulls us one step up, but when you see down from there and think you are above others, the whole staircase moves two steps distance down. This section is all about Spirituality, so if you want to do something good for the people here, hurt their ego as much as possible, so that the entire staircase moves upwards, but make sure your staircase is not moving down in that process.

Show me a person with no ego.

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Show me a person with no ego.

There is no person.?

[Ajax]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

There is no person.?

Shh, ? nobody knows that! It's a secret ?

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Ajax said:

Shh, ? nobody knows that! It's a secret ?

There's nobody to know that. That's the secret. Tell nobody?

[Ajax]

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

There's nobody to know that. That's the secret. Tell nobody?

touché, Princess, touché. I love you so...❤️

[An young being]

11 hours ago, vibv said:

.

Ok, I have learnt my lesson here. My post clearly shows how generalising something and being open about it with less words is not good. Let me tell my understanding about the spiritual ego ( I mentioned just ego because I assumed most people here claim being awakened and so mostly spiritual ego will be involved) and how stepping on it will be beneficial, according to me:

Spiritual ego: You have discovered something new based on your experience or understanding and you try to establish it as ultimate truth, denying everything else as false. You feel superior as a result of it.

So, there are two ways to deal with such ego of others:

1. The flower way: You try to deny them with kind words and try to establish your points step by step, hoping they will understand your points as well. This will work for people with an open mind, but doesn't work for those with a strong ego.

2. The lion way: You strongly oppose their points, by giving them a slap in their face, with the hope that they might realise that their points are not the only right ones. This doesn't mean you should attack them personally or use similar tactics. It simply means to prove their points wrong with strong valid points, but not worrying about whether they will be hurt in the process, hoping that it will be good for them in the long term.

I was talking about the second way here.

 

11 hours ago, Incognito said:

 

[An young being]

12 hours ago, Larry Kaul said:

@An young being My perspective is different. The barrier between us and progress is our beliefs and burdens. We access freedom from beliefs by examining them. Burdens are thought/feeling loops buried in our bodies. The pathway to success is to embrace and experience them. The ego is not the barrier. The ego is the self of experience that has the limitation of not knowing what's going on as it seeks to remember what it is in reality. 

@Larry KaulI agree that beliefs need to be broken to discover in any field, especially spirituality. When it comes to burdens, deflating our ego helps to reduce attachments to our burdens. The only time we can be free of ego completely is during ego dissolution, even then we are just expanding our sense of self to include everything that ego reaches infinity. It didn't disappear but it becomes so big that we are not able to see it. By hurting or reducing ego, I simply mean becoming less selfish and feeling humbler, and not necessarily stopping to take care of your own needs. There are so many definitions of ego that it becomes easy to get confused.

[Incognito]

[An young being]

12 hours ago, Razard86 said:

There is no right way or wrong way to help people as each process has pros and cons. For example if I needed to raise an army, your way of trying to get them into shape would not be effective. There is a masculine way of training people and a feminine way of training people. The method majority of you are sharing is good in peace times, where you can help someone deal with their emotional issues. But if I dropped you on an island and stuff needed to get done then all this talk on how best to reach people falls by the way side.

Don't be so quick to dismiss different methods of training, suffering and pain are VERY BENEFICIAL in certain circumstances and in others THEY ARE NOT. It is always RELATIVE to the situation at hand. If you get locked into any perspective you are just limiting your intelligence and making yourself dumb to a certain way of thinking.

True. When you are open minded, you can find some good even during your worst experience and something useful even in the ridiculest of all ideas.

11 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Does a flower grow if you step on it?

We are not talking about the flower here, but the stubborn rock on the top of the barren mountain. It needs a hard pushing to roll down the mountain, to see the fields and the river.

[Harsh Bagdia]

1 hour ago, An young being said:

2. The lion way: You strongly oppose their points, by giving them a slap in their face, with the hope that they might realise that their points are not the only right ones. This doesn't mean you should attack them personally or use similar tactics. It simply means to prove their points wrong with strong valid points, but not worrying about whether they will be hurt in the process, hoping that it will be good for them in the long term.

I was talking about the second way here.

 

Loved your answer???????

[An young being]

8 hours ago, Harsh Bagdia said:

Hello my friend. 

I am Harsh Bagdia. And I am an ego?

I dare you to try to hurt me. 

Hey but I won't be responsible if you get hurt in the process.

This is your idea not mine. I am just inviting you to implement your idea. 

 

 

 

 

Ok I know I am acting all smart. 

There's a reason for saying such a statement. 

And that is:

ego is such a misused/abused word that you can just relate anything negative with it. 

Let's take the most common perception of ego. It is that ego means Selfishness.

So according to me Majority of today's population need more ego not less. 

Try changing my mind on this. 

 

 

 

 

@Harsh Bagdia I am also talking about the ego that is of selfishness but also of superiority. Being selfish is what has kept the world running, including all the technological Marvels that has taken place. But, when it comes to your own individual welfare, being selfish is good only when it concerns your survival. Beyond certain point, the individual has to move towards less selfishness, for his own happiness and well being. Also, being selfless doesn't mean you should ignore your well being but to add others well being as your own. It is to move beyond what you call as your body.

[An young being]

7 hours ago, Ajax said:

Show me a person with no ego.

There is none.

 

15 minutes ago, Incognito said:

Ha ha!

[An young being]

11 minutes ago, Harsh Bagdia said:

Loved your answer???????

Thank you!

[TheAlchemist]

How do you know you aren't just making the ego stronger and more resistant to change?

[An young being]

26 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

How do you know you aren't just making the ego stronger and more resistant to change?

That mostly happens only if you blatantly attack them for personal reasons without any valid points. If you are making logical and valid points, others will also support you, and that automatically forces them to  bring down their spiritual ego. It works only if you are aware of how your own ego is getting affected in that process. You may be strengthening your own ego while trying to attack others. In such case, it creates a viscious, never ending cycle of hatred. 

It works best against those who are not being open minded and not ready to look into others' points in addition to their own.

[Harsh Bagdia]

1 hour ago, An young being said:

@Harsh Bagdia I am also talking about the ego that is of selfishness but also of superiority. Being selfish is what has kept the world running, including all the technological Marvels that has taken place. But, when it comes to your own individual welfare, being selfish is good only when it concerns your survival. Beyond certain point, the individual has to move towards less selfishness, for his own happiness and well being. Also, being selfless doesn't mean you should ignore your well being but to add others well being as your own. It is to move beyond what you call as your body.

I get what you are saying. 

I and you are actually on the same page here. 

I too believe hurting others superiority ego is good for them and myself and everyone when we truly have great insights. 

 

What I am doing is using the framing of Ego Itself To Challenge The Ego.

I believe I will become the most selfish being in this entire universe♾️?

 

In my view,

Advanced Spiritual Beings Are Most Selfish Beings There Exists?

Their definition of self is universal. 

So in their experience, everything is themselves.

 

So in that sense highest selflessness is highest selfishness. 

?

 

You may have this question that why I am using this kind of framing?? 

It is because of abuse that happens in the name of spirituality. 

I have seen so called "Gurus" who teach non-duality (there's no self..there's no doer... become the watcher...desire is bad and etc etc) 

While those teachings may be right from a certain perspective, it is dangerous to those who are at low levels of ego development (to whom they mostly teach(young students, women)). 

What they need is regular self-help teachings and move through the stages of development. 

And spirituality must be taught to them in a different fashion than traditional no-self and Neo-Advaita. 

 

I use such statements (like I am selfish) only to challenge such gurus. 

 

I appreciate this conversation between us?

It has helped to bring more clarity to my mind. 

I hope it does the same for you too. 

 

Namaste

 

PS: Adiyogi statue is just damn awesome, no? I have visited the Ashram just 2 times and have fallen in love with Adiyogi

 

[BlueOak]

For me i've learned plenty from being shouted at, physically beaten, demeaned, gaslighted, forgotten about, manipulated, lied to, all manner of things we might consider negative to my family I have learned from.

As you get older, your range of experience will get broader. The worst (and best) thing that happens to you will keep setting new expanded limits for what you consider significant.

Someone told me once, when you are a child you fall over it's the worst thing in the world, you cry and cry, because it's the worst thing you've experienced. I imagine someone who has had three divorces, lost a kid, and is walking around in crippling pain from an injury he suffered in a war and sleeps with PTSD would look at this and laugh. I know the things I've experienced like a brother being beaten with a baseball bat because he hasn't stolen enough that month, for his 20-year opiate addiction, or the time I chose to leave him in a fight because of it to get help certainly weigh a lot more on me than any words someone could say on an internet forum.

Perspectives on this line of teaching differ.

[An young being]

47 minutes ago, Harsh Bagdia said:

You may have this question that why I am using this kind of framing?? 

It is because of abuse that happens in the name of spirituality. 

I have seen so called "Gurus" who teach non-duality (there's no self..there's no doer... become the watcher...desire is bad and etc etc) 

While those teachings may be right from a certain perspective, it is dangerous to those who are at low levels of ego development (to whom they mostly teach(young students, women)). 

What they need is regular self-help teachings and move through the stages of development. 

And spirituality must be taught to them in a different fashion than traditional no-self and Neo-Advaita. 

 

I use such statements (like I am selfish) only to challenge such gurus. 

 

I appreciate this conversation between us?

It has helped to bring more clarity to my mind. 

I hope it does the same for you too. 

 

Namaste

 

PS: Adiyogi statue is just damn awesome, no? I have visited the Ashram just 2 times and have fallen in love with Adiyogi

 

@Harsh BagdiaTrue. Jumping straight into such advanced concepts may be addictive, but not good for their well being. It may even lead to them taking extreme measures. Regarding Adiyogi, I love the statue, but the same can't be said about Sadhguru. I neither have a positive or negative view upon him.

32 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

For me i've learned plenty from being shouted at, physically beaten, demeaned, gaslighted, forgotten about, manipulated, lied to, all manner of things we might consider negative to my family I have learned from.

As you get older, your range of experience will get broader. The worst (and best) thing that happens to you will keep setting new expanded limits for what you consider significant.

Someone told me once, when you are a child you fall over it's the worst thing in the world, you cry and cry, because it's the worst thing you've experienced. I imagine someone who has had three divorces, lost a kid, and is walking around in crippling pain from an injury he suffered in a war and sleeps with PTSD would look at this and laugh. I know the things I've experienced like a brother being beaten with a baseball bat because he hasn't stolen enough that month, for his 20-year opiate addiction, or the time I chose to leave him in a fight because of it to get help certainly weigh a lot more on me than any words someone could say on an internet forum.

Perspectives on this line of teaching differ.

I am happy that you have learnt a lot from your negative experiences. Most people suffer not because of their present, but recalling unpleasant memories of the past knowingly or unknowingly. It's important we learn from them instead of clinging to them and wondering why it happened to me, although it is easier said than done.

[Kksd74628]

@An young being

The way you said it in beginning was weird and even I didn't get what you meant. If being brutally honest to people was what you meant then you're correct and that's the way to go. Build up people by always being more and more honest with them until they gotta face the truth. Practice your communication btw, because the way you did it in start was so bad basically everyone got your message wrong. At the same time you should realize there is no point helping anyone realize anything, because it's your dream and life and there's nothing else. Helping is just you coping thinking that you're good person, but why you need to feel being lie a good person. Think about that.

-joNi-

[An young being]

44 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@An young being

The way you said it in beginning was weird and even I didn't get what you meant. If being brutally honest to people was what you meant then you're correct and that's the way to go. Build up people by always being more and more honest with them until they gotta face the truth. Practice your communication btw, because the way you did it in start was so bad basically everyone got your message wrong. 

I feel that the title was a bit too intense, although it achieved its purpose of creating a debate. When it comes to communication, English is my second language, so basically I am weak there. Also, I was half asleep, so that might have played a role there.

 

44 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@An young being

 At the same time you should realize there is no point helping anyone realize anything, because it's your dream and life and there's nothing else. Helping is just you coping thinking that you're good person, but why you need to feel being lie a good person. Think about that.

-joNi-

It's not me helping others to realise something, it's me giving new perspective to things that are well established like a rock in other people's minds. I enjoy doing that, that's why I do it, even if it's my dream.

Coming to helping other people, it gives me joy when someone benefits from my thoughts or actions. So, you can call it a selfish act.

Edited October 3, 2023 by An young being