About the last Insight post and general critique of Leo

[vibv]

7 minutes ago, vibv said:

It's about becoming CONSCIOUS of the Absolute. That's not a binary insight that you just get some afternoon.

Except that it is just that. But then there's more. It's not really conveyable per words because words are a part of what you try to explain as is everything else.

Ok let me try it this way:

THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE. THE END.

But now YOU AS THE ABSOLUTE are in the process of BECOMING. There's agency involved.

This becoming happens in a perfect way, but it's not at all known how exactly it will unfold. Only that it will eventually.

This is the Absolute reminding itself that IT IS NOT YET FINISHED.

Both statements (there is nothing but the ever-perfect unchanging Absolute; the Absolute is in the process of Becoming)  are true at the same time and this transcends human logic. The error that's being done is discarding one side of the coin (the Becoming) and only accepting the other side (the unchanging Absolute). That's where you get stuck.

[Osaid]

16 minutes ago, vibv said:

It's not about there being something above the Absolute.

This is exactly what it is, but somehow you guys have reasoned to yourselves that this isn't what you're doing.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, SOUL said:

What you suggest is that there are parts of reality that are less or more consciousness than others, which cannot possibly be if everything, all of reality, is consciousness. It's absolute infinite. Any perception of consciousness in degrees is just our awareness of it, not consciousness being it.

YOU are reality and you are conscious to various degrees.

Everything is consciousness but not equally conscious.

Awakening requires more consciousness than non-Awakening. Otherwise there would be no point to spiritual practice.

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The relative is an illusion, it appears in degrees and states of conditions. Which doesn't mean it isn't 'real', its reality is illusory, it does not appear as it really is. Consciousness appearing in degrees is an illusion of one's relative conditional conscious state within the 'dream'.

Just no.

Consciousness is exactly like a light bulb. It shines in many degrees of brightness. All light is light, but not all light is equally bright.

If you believe you are at max brightness you have lost yo mind.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

YOU are reality and you are conscious to various degrees.

Everything is consciousness but not equally conscious.

Awakening requires more consciousness than non-Awakening. Otherwise there would be no point to spiritual practice.

Just no.

I'm tired of explaining this.

If you believe you are maximally conscious you have lost your mind.

No one believes you are maximally consciousness but that rather there are divine states of consciousness.    There are such divine states of consciousness that you will never reach these states with psychedelics and you will only reach them naturally, spiked by meditation.  Psychedelics will never give you the divine states of consciousness I am speaking of and you will never get them with your genetic makeup. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Inliytened1

[vibv]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

.. that you will never reach these states with psychedelics and you will only reach them naturally, spiked by meditation.  

Says who? How is that not just a belief?

Edited September 23, 2023 by vibv

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

No one believes you are maximally consciousness

Many claim that consciousness has no degrees. So they certainly believe they are maxed out.

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but that rather there are divine states of consciousness.

I fully agree.

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There are such divine states of consciousness that you will never reach these states with psychedelics and you will only reach them naturally, spiked by meditation.  Psychedelics will never give you the divine states of consciousness I am speaking of and you will never get them with your genetic makeup. 

I would say the inverse to you, but we've already had this debate elsewhere. Let's not do it again here.

Believe what you will.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

I just became conscious that I’m absolutely Patrick Star.

And that’s fucking intelligent.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, vibv said:

Says who? How is that not just a belief?

We have guys here saying that meditation cannot bring you those states and I, from direct experience, can tell you it's the inverse.  

[vibv]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

We have guys here saying that meditation cannot bring you those states and I, from direct experience, can tell you it's the inverse.  

I believe that it's theoretically possible without psychedelics. But you don't know the inverse. It's just different tools.

It's also very likely that every person walks their own path. Psychedelics are certainly a completely valid one. Also every path has advantages and disadvantages.

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Many claim that consciousness has no degrees. So they certainly believe they are maxed out.

I fully agree.

I would say the inverse to you, but we've already had this debate elsewhere. Let's not do it again here.

Believe what you will.

You're still the man in my book.   But dude, really don't lose sight of your earlier insights.   The problem with you is you questioned everything ad infinitum- to your own destruction.   

Edited September 23, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Javfly33]

It's obvious. Psychedelics are chemicals and they twist something in your brain/consciousness in order for you to tap into those states. The fact that one can not get into those states naturally, is debatable, but I would say yes, is not possible. But in the other hand, by the same "logic", psychedelics are limited precisely because they put your chemistry in a certain state/way. If they wouldn't fix in a certain way your inner chemistry, then you yes, you *could tap into every state unimaginable, but since they have a certain chemistry design, they are limited to that design or certain way they twist your chemistry.

When you have no chemical influence under, the inner chemistry is free and can be tweaked in any way.

Also I do believe is possible to tweak your state of consciousness naturally as a psychedelic does, the only reason monks or yoguis or mystics don't do it is because psychedelic states have a certain anxiety and lack of energetic control that no one would produce if they had at one point the panel of control of their chemistry.

Someone that can produce a high state of consciousness will produce the clarity, blissfulness and intensity, but will not produce any kind of negative effect such as over stimulation, energetic imbalances or twists in consciousness. Something that psychedelic do as a side effect of putting you in mystical states. 

Overall, when you taste explosive blissful and clear states of consciousness "naturally", you will see the psychedelic states as not so good and not so "perfect". Most people haven't touch this unfortunately so they think the psychedelic states are the peak of the peak.

No, no. This is like all your life what most you have driven is a BMW and you think BMW is the best.

Until you try a Maserati or a Ferrari. Then you'll realize how naive you were you thought you've seen it all.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Javfly33

[Yimpa]

Guess what trumps meditation, enlightenment, and psychedelics?

L O V E

[Osaid]

In order to perceive a higher consciousness state, you must be a human. A human who dreams of higher states. A human who dreams of psychedelics. That is a relative human conception. Created by a human who has returned to a lower state, who imagines other states. Who then imagines exploration. Your entire idea of reality is based on human anthropomorphisms.

[Osaid]

On 9/21/2023 at 5:36 PM, Bandman said:

If consciousness can be increased without limit , to go along with our analogy of levels of consciousness, woudn't that mean that level absolute infinity could never be reached? and wouldn't this paradoxically prove a transcendant Godhead that is outside of reality and could never be reached through any state of consciousness because any state of consciousness can always go deeper and never reaches the end? Doesn't this mean you're not God?

That is very well put, and If I were to add my interpretation, I think it naturally highlights the main issue of "trying to transcend the absolute" which will inevitably keep popping up.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Osaid

[Inliytened1]

15 minutes ago, vibv said:

I believe that it's theoretically possible without psychedelics. But you don't know the inverse. It's just different tools.

It's also very likely that every person walks their own path. Psychedelics are certainly a completely valid one. Also every path has advantages and disadvantages.

Well, at least you're open to the possibility.  That's more than I can say for your leader here.  At least you think for yourself. 

[Leo Gura]

@Inliytened1 There is an interesting wrinkle which may help explain some of the clashing we are having, and it is this:

Since reality is a dream and imagination, you might be dreaming that psychedelics do not work in your dream world, and I may be dreaming that meditation does not work in my dream world. And we may not be able to un-dream these dreams any more than we can un-dream gravity.

So be careful assuming that everyone is in the same dream as you.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Greatnestwithin]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Inliytened1 There is an interesting wrinkle which may help explain some of the clashing we are having, and it is this:

Since reality is a dream and imagination, you might be dreaming that psychedelics do not work in your dream world, and I may be dreaming that meditation does not work in my dream world. And we may not be able to un-dream these dreams any more than we can un-dream gravity.

So be careful assuming that everyone is in the same dream as you.

@Leo Gura have got any insights into why you wouldn't be able to un dream Gravity? 

[Inliytened1]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Inliytened1 There is an interesting wrinkle which may help explain some of the clashing we are having, and is this:

Since reality is a dream and imagination, you might be dreaming that psychedelics do not work in your dream world, and I may be dreaming that meditation does not work in my dream world. And we may not be able to undream these dreams, any more than you can undream gravity.

That is excellent.   Now we are talking.   I just poked you to push you deeper for your students- because you were leading them down a dark path.

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Greatnestwithin said:

@Leo Gura have got any insights into why you wouldn't be able to un dream Gravity? 

As a human you are locked into a certain kind of dream.

If you could un-dream stuff like gravity you would no longer be human and you would lose human sanity.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

Not to bust balls here or split hairs or to sound like Nahm or anything like that...BUT:.

Reality is NOT dream . Reality is just Reality  . Just like red is just red  . 2=2. 

Have you noticed that everything is itself and not some other thing ??