Differences 5-MeO-DMT freebase, fumerate, hydrochloride

[manuel bon]

Can you explain me the differences between these three types?

I have never tried this compound, and I would like to try it first by snorting it, but don't know which one is the best for this. I read the freebase hurts like hell, but what about the fumerate and hydrochloride?

[Leo Gura]

Snorting is nasty regardless, but freebase is best for vaping.

[manuel bon]

@Leo Gura yeah snorting is not nice, but I would prefer doing it this way, since I don't have anyone who could tripsit me, and the come up is slower.

There is really no difference between the three types if snorted?

[Girzo]

@manuel bon HCl is the best for snorting as it weighs the least so you will have less substance to snort.

That’s the only reason I can think of, the fumarate should also be perfectly snortable.

For me snorting hasn’t been too nasty. I have only ever regretted snorting 50+ mg doses of DPT HCl.

20 mg of any tryptamine is doable. But not freebase, freebase is nasty.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Girzo

[manuel bon]

@Girzo Okk, dzjekuje!

[Breakingthewall]

24 minutes ago, manuel bon said:

@Leo Gura yeah snorting is not nice, but I would prefer doing it this way, since I don't have anyone who could tripsit me, and the come up is slower.

There is really no difference between the three types if snorted?

snorting freebase is very difficult because it's like a wax more than powder, and it has a very basic ph, 9 I think, so your nose will burn. there is a way, you dissolve it in vinegar until the ph is neutral (you measure it with ph strips) and then you use it as drops. most likely it will pass into your throat and it seems that sulfuric acid has been poured down your throat, but if you spend a long time looking down with your nose covered so that it does not come out, it may all be absorbed. With hcl it is easy to snort but it can also happen in the throat, and that at the same time as the effect of 5meo is extremely unpleasant. Remember to spend as much time as you can looking down with your nose covered, massaging the nostrils so that it is absorbed, and only lie down when you cannot resist anymore.

[manuel bon]

@Breakingthewall thanks for the useful advice!

[halfknots]

Fumarate and hydrochloride are salt forms whereas freebase is the pure, basic form of a compound

Salts are water soluble which means they are well suited to intranasal, rectal, and intramuscular routes of administration. Salts By their nature contain less of the active component by weight. Hydrochloride is approximately 98% 5-MeO-DMT whereas fumarate is less, maybe 66-75% by weight. Salts are valuable for a number of reasons, one being that they are more stable and another that the routes of administration come on slower and last longer.

Freebase refers to the pure compound without any ionic bonds. Freebase is best suited to vaping but can easily be converted to a salt form on the fly by the addition of acid such as vinegar or a citric acid solution. Freebase is by weight he most potent form of a compound but also the most prone to degradation by heat, oxygen, and light.

The reason freebase hurts if you get it in a mucus membrane like your nose is because it is extremely basic. Salt forms are acidic, but the pH can be buffered in solution to something closer to neutral to reduce the sting.

[manuel bon]

@halfknots Thank you for the detailed explanation! What if I put these the compound in a capsule, am I going to get the effects? If yes, which one is the best?

Just checking the possibilities.

[halfknots]

@manuel bon

 

5-MeO-DMT is generally considered not orally active in either the salt or freebase form. I've heard some people claim that it is, but without direct experience I can't say one way or the other.

5-MeO-DMT salts can be taken sublingually if you don't want to use the intranasal or rectal route.

Orally active options include 4-HO-MET and 4-ACO-DMT, among other 4 and 5 subbed tryptamines. Consult psychonautwiki.

Edited August 17, 2023 by halfknots

[manuel bon]

@halfknots thank you!

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

Fumerate has the longest shelf-life.

[mpechura]

The other week Gerhard Fourie recorded a video about volumetric dosing using a nasal spray. I can't seem to find this video any longer. I assume Youtube has deleted it.

I created a nasal solution following the steps as laid out by Gerhard and it's my favourite route of administration at the moment. I like it more than snorting because the experience feels much more potent with the spray given the same amount of chemical. The results are much more consistent as well. With snorting you get clumps of material not dissolving, putting your straw not deep enough into your nostril, etc. Maybe you can master the sniffing technique. I didn't. So I'm seeing snorting as a good way to start so that you can acclimate yourself to the chemical but ultimately you'll need to give it up for something better. When I plugged either 5-Meo-Malt or 5-Meo-Dmt, I'd always get a ego backlash. I can't say why that is. Maybe it's because plugging is more potent than nasal. Maybe it's because I needed to clear out some negative energy. If you don't know what "ego backlash" is, watch the corresponding video on Leo's Youtube channel. But if you have ever had drug comedowns, that's basically what it means. Anyways, I'm revisiting plugging later. I only have had positive experiences with the nasal spray. Burning has never been an issue for me, even with sniffing, but spray can help with that problem too. I also haven't had an issue with feeling sick when using spray on a full stomach. But then I've only plugged on an empty stomach. So I don't know if I get that particular problem in the first place.

I created a step-by-step guide replicating the Gerhard's deleted video on Youtube and shared it with some on these forums. Posting it again for manuel bon's benefit.

First you need to determine how much solution each spray delivers in one spray. Maybe you can figure this out by reading the description on the spray bottle, but I couldn’t, even after having spent some time at my local pharmacy looking at different brands. Here’s a simple trick Gerhard mentioned:
1)      Weigh your solution first.
2)      Spray the nasal spray 5 times.
3)      Weigh it again.
4)      Subtract the difference and divide it by 5.
(40.721 - 39.976) / 5 = 0.150ml

So I get 0.150ml per spray for my nasal spray.

Next, take the nozzle off the bottle using a Philips screwdriver

So a little bit of maths. I know my bottle will fit 10ml of water. 10ml / 0.15ml per spray = 67 sprays. I know that a red 10mg scoop fits around 7mgs of 5-meo-dmt and I want one spray to deliver one 10mg red scoop. So 7mgs * 67 sprays = 467mgs of 5-meo-dmt

I put a rollie paper under the chemical to make the job of delivering the powder into the nasal spray bottle easier. Roll the paper into a tube and upend it into the bottle. Or alternatively use the plastic tray may have been supplied with the scales.

Now measure 10ml of water

And off you go blasting into the infinite

Plugging is probably superior anyway, but it's always best to try all the options and understand what works best for you. Like, Gerhard said that he uses his nasal spray while out on public for microdosing (concerts and such). I remember Girzo mentioning he goes around puffing n,n-dmt smoke from his vape. I used the spray while hiking, keeping the dose low enough to still be able to walk. The hike was very colourful and amazing. I think this could be a good solution for someone for tried plugging but feels the experience was too intense. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by mpechura

[mpechura]

@halfknots I recently ordered freebase. If i dissolve it in vinegar, will it burn my nose? HCL doesn't. My plan is to use the converted freebase in the nasal spray mentioned above. I remember Leo saying that converting freebase yields you 20% more chemical. Does it mean that I'll get 1.2 grams of salt if I start with a gram of freebase when weighed on my scales? Or does it mean that the gram will still weight a gram but it will be 20% more potent?

Update: Did a little searching on the 5-meo-dmt megathread and found the following two posts.

Converting freebase to acetate

Converting HCL to freebase on dmt-nexus

Edited August 19, 2023 by mpechura

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

35 minutes ago, mpechura said:

The other week Gerhard Fourie recorded a video about volumetric dosing using a nasal spray. I can't seem to find this video any longer. I assume Youtube has deleted it.

I created a nasal solution following the steps as laid out by Gerhard and it's my favourite route of administration at the moment. I like it more than snorting because the experience feels much more potent with the spray given the same amount of chemical. The results are much more consistent as well. With snorting you get clumps of material not dissolving, putting your straw not deep enough into your nostril, etc. Maybe you can master the sniffing technique. I didn't. So I'm seeing snorting as a good way to start so that you can acclimate yourself to the chemical but ultimately you'll need to give it up for something better. When I plugged either 5-Meo-Malt or 5-Meo-Dmt, I'd always get a ego backlash. I can't say why that is. Maybe it's because plugging is more potent than nasal. Maybe it's because I needed to clear out some negative energy. If you don't know what "ego backlash" is, watch the corresponding video on Leo's Youtube channel. But if you have ever had drug comedowns, that's basically what it means. Anyways, I'm revisiting plugging later. I only have had positive experiences with the nasal spray. Burning has never been an issue for me, even with sniffing, but spray can help with that problem too. I also haven't had an issue with feeling sick when using spray on a full stomach. But then I've only plugged on an empty stomach. So I don't know if I get that particular problem in the first place.

I created a step-by-step guide replicating the Gerhard's deleted video on Youtube and shared it with some on these forums. Posting it again for manuel bon's benefit.

First you need to determine how much solution each spray delivers in one spray. Maybe you can figure this out by reading the description on the spray bottle, but I couldn’t, even after having spent some time at my local pharmacy looking at different brands. Here’s a simple trick Gerhard mentioned:
1)      Weigh your solution first.
2)      Spray the nasal spray 5 times.
3)      Weigh it again.
4)      Subtract the difference and divide it by 5.
(40.721 - 39.976) / 5 = 0.150ml

So I get 0.150ml per spray for my nasal spray.

Next, take the nozzle off the bottle using a Philips screwdriver

So a little bit of maths. I know my bottle will fit 10ml of water. 10ml / 0.15ml per spray = 67 sprays. I know that a red 10mg scoop fits around 7mgs of 5-meo-dmt and I want one spray to deliver one 10mg red scoop. So 7mgs * 67 sprays = 467mgs of 5-meo-dmt

I put a rollie paper under the chemical to make the job of delivering the powder into the nasal spray bottle easier. Roll the paper into a tube and upend it into the bottle. Or alternatively use the plastic tray may have been supplied with the scales.

Now measure 10ml of water

And off you go blasting into the infinite

Plugging is probably superior anyway, but it's always best to try all the options and understand what works best for you. Like, Gerhard said that he uses his nasal spray while out on public for microdosing (concerts and such). I remember Girzo mentioning he goes around puffing n,n-dmt smoke from his vape. I used the spray while hiking, keeping the dose low enough to still be able to walk. The hike was very colourful and amazing. I think this could be a good solution for someone for tried plugging but feels the experience was too intense. 

 

15 minutes ago, mpechura said:

@halfknots I recently ordered freebase. If i dissolve it in vinegar, will it burn my nose? HCL doesn't. My plan is to use the converted freebase in the nasal spray mentioned above. I remember Leo saying that converting freebase yields you 20% more chemical. Does it mean that I'll get 1.2 grams of acetate if I start with a gram of freebase when weighed on my scales? Or does it mean that the gram will still weight a gram but it will be 20% more potent?

Dude! You ARE a LEGEND! THANK YOU!

[halfknots]

@mpechura converting to freebase will not create more of the active compound, but because freebase is the "pure"  compound not bound in a salt form, it is more potent by weight.

Like when you step on a scale fully clothed, you'll weigh more because there is a bunch of stuff there that isn't you. The clothes are like the salt bond. Without clothes you're just you.

[shree]

Great tutorial @mpechura

Thanks for sharing.

I found refillable spray bottles on Amazon. They are of a decent quality.  I am sure similar ones are available in other places.

EDIT: Here is a link: 3 x Spray Bottles 15 ml Amber Glass with Funnel

Edited August 28, 2023 by shree
Forgot to share a link