Persistence

[krockerman]

I as a man (who also has Aspergers)

Have a hard time when it comes to two things in game:

I was on a date a couple of days back and I just could not escalate or make things Sexual

I am afraid to make girls uncomfortable or creep them out

I feel like I also need a very clear sign that it is ok to touch and even then I feel uncomfortable

When it comes to the metoo ways of looking at this clear verbal consent or if a girl is making the moves is the way to go when it comes to calibration of consent

The other thing is persistence

I have watched interviews girls that tell you that they have rejected men to test their determination to win them over

I am a very sensitive guy but I am lacking the dating/sex life I want 

So my question is, how can you become conscious persistent without being disrespectful, creepy or rapey?

And what should you do if you are not natrually socialy well calibrated when it comes to non verbal cues and making the move?

@Leo Gura

@Emerald

[Roy]

2 hours ago, krockerman said:

I was on a date a couple of days back and I just could not escalate or make things Sexual

You've got to create dates where physical contact can happen or is inevitable. Brainstorm activities where you might end up close to each other. Also end up in places that are romantic and/or have privacy. Those are good opportunities to kiss. Girls aren't stupid either, if you take them to some nice park with flowers everywhere and an enclosed space, they will loosen themselves up to be receptive to a kiss. If they are into you that is.

2 hours ago, krockerman said:

I am afraid to make girls uncomfortable or creep them out

You are going to have blunders, it's ok. It happens to all guys who have to learn. Just brush them off and keep going.

2 hours ago, krockerman said:

I feel like I also need a very clear sign that it is ok to touch and even then I feel uncomfortable

You are hardily EVER going to get that from a girl. You need to take full responsibility for this. If you wait for their verbal consent you are going to be waiting until you are bones in the ground.

With my current GF on our first date she was acting shy and closed off so I literally grabbed her face (gently) and turned it towards mine and kissed her passionately. She blossomed like a flower and felt relaxed after I took the lead and we are coming up on our 1 year anniversary now.

That moment was even slightly uncomfortable for me but sometimes that what it takes to get past the butterflies. Life is not a Disney movie.

2 hours ago, krockerman said:

I have watched interviews girls that tell you that they have rejected men to test their determination to win them over

DO NOT engage with girls that play these kind of games. They are psychotic and will ruin your life. The games don't end once you've won them over, they will persist in creating drama and gaslighting you continuously to keep themselves entertained.

They are for the streets. Just fuck them for the experience if you get the chance then block their numbers.

2 hours ago, krockerman said:

So my question is, how can you become conscious persistent without being disrespectful, creepy or rapey?

If you are shooting a lot of shots there WILL be stray bullets that hit people in ways they don't like. I had a date with a 33 year old woman where we just went for brunch and a walk with no physical contact and she called me a "rapist" for asking her on a 2nd date  Just do your best to have integrity and treat people well and you should be fine.

Understand that most women don't occupy the reality that you and I do. You can do everything perfect and they will still freak out and act crazy once in a while. It just is how it is. Like water being wet.

2 hours ago, krockerman said:

And what should you do if you are not natrually socialy well calibrated when it comes to non verbal cues and making the move?

You just need lots of experiences, good, bad, and everything in between. You need to be bold and reckless sometimes. Experiment and don't take it all so seriously.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Roy

[Raze]

To start, just take rejections at face value, and just ask to escalate. It can work too.

[Harman]

I have multiple things i could say but if you want to continue this path on dating then listen to Tykwondoe one of the most experience but also one of the only guys that breaks down everything in game not many like him.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Harman To the moon ?

[Leo Gura]

You just have to go for the physical touch early on and all the time in light, flirty ways that are quick and spontaeneous.

For example, when you meet her, give her a hug. Then when you tell her a joke and she's laughing, poke her. Ask to see her hands. Touch her watch or jewelery a bit. Put your hand on her shoulder for a bit. Then hold her hand. Bump your butt into her. Etc.

It all becomes very natural.

You don't have to worry about being creepy as long as your touching is light, quick, and playful. If she agreed to go on a date with you she's basically open to sleeping with you and she finds you attractive. So she is open to you touching her as long as it's not too sexual too fast.

Whenever you touch her, just look at her face. If she finds it creepy it will immediately show on her face and in her eyes. If she is smiling and laughing then that's a green light to escalate more.

A big part of not being creepy is to stop hesitating, worrying, and wondering whether you're crerpy. Just be the fun social guy who touches everybody. Start touching guys too! Start greet men by giving them a handshake and a pat on the shoulder. You can them start giving male staff high fives and greeting on the shoulder. Practice this 50 times and you'll get very comfortable with it.

Stop worrying and err on the side of boldness not caution. Overdo it just to get over the fear of it. The best way to practice is to go to a loud nightclub and just start doing physical openers near the dance floor. Keep doing that for weeks until you stop being scared of it.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Leo Gura

[NoSelfSelf]

@Leo Gura I dont get why you need to touch her early on and all the time what's the point?

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Leo Gura I dont get why you need to touch her early on and all the time what's the point?

That makes it more natural and less awkward.

If you go half the date without touching her that will make it very awkward to then touch her. You want to break those formality barriers within minutes, not hours.

You can pretty much hug any girl immediately on a first date. You can do a little informal platonic hug.

Stop being afraid and just see how much you can get away with. Worst case she brushes you off. It's no big deal and you gotta get comfortable with being brushed off by a girl.

I've had girls punch me in the face. It's okay. You're a man you will live, it's no big deal. You can't be walking around worrying about such little stuff.

I hope a girl slaps you in the face, just to toughen you up. I hope a girl calls security on you a few times.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Leo Gura

[StarStruck]

8 hours ago, krockerman said:

I as a man (who also has Aspergers)

Have a hard time when it comes to two things in game:

I was on a date a couple of days back and I just could not escalate or make things Sexual

I am afraid to make girls uncomfortable or creep them out

I feel like I also need a very clear sign that it is ok to touch and even then I feel uncomfortable

When it comes to the metoo ways of looking at this clear verbal consent or if a girl is making the moves is the way to go when it comes to calibration of consent

The other thing is persistence

I have watched interviews girls that tell you that they have rejected men to test their determination to win them over

I am a very sensitive guy but I am lacking the dating/sex life I want 

So my question is, how can you become conscious persistent without being disrespectful, creepy or rapey?

And what should you do if you are not natrually socialy well calibrated when it comes to non verbal cues and making the move?

@Leo Gura

@Emerald

Think of the opportunity costs. Yes, being reserved, shy and being in your comfort zone has its safety and benefits. But you will get old very fast and life will flash you by so there is a cost to being reserved. A life not lived is much costlier than getting your ego crushed. If I were you I wouldn't throw it on autism. You are just afraid.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Leo Gura Yeah i understand i like the hug,or when sitting close to take the hand and check out what she wears on her hand etc. i was more like looking from perspective,why push it when the way i talk to her and behave she is giving me an invitation to everything, so im just gently leading in that direction, not leading with a touch but with my talking intentions that opens up the touch,kiss if you know what i mean.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Leo Gura Yeah i understand i like the hug,or when sitting close to take the hand and check out what she wears on her hand etc. i was more like looking from perspective,why push it when the way i talk to her and behave she is giving me an invitation to everything, so im just gently leading in that direction, not leading with a touch but with my talking intentions that opens up the touch,kiss if you know what i mean.

What you are describing is actually more advanced. Of course you can also take it slow. But the guy in this thread is to afraid to escalate so he needs to train breaking that barrier early. Once you are experienced you can sit back and not even touch the girl and let her come to you. But not as a newbie in training.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Leo Gura

[NoSelfSelf]

@Leo Gura Now i get the whole picture thanks! ?

[krockerman]

@Leo Gura

How do you become consciously persistent when it comes to open/close?

I have worked as a door to door salesman for about 6 months

The biggest obstacle I had was according to my boss is that I was not pushy enough

I loved everything about except when it came to being pushy

I genuinely cared for my customers and even got an award for my quality

However even If I care about making money because I could not be pushy at all unless I was in survival mode and had to make a sale

Now when it comes to open/close I am very attentive but many PUAs like Julien and Todd have talked about plowing

Basically to talk and be persistent until the girls hook

Now what main principles can you follow to make sure that you are not harrasing the girl after you get token resistance? (It has happened many times in door to door sales that people tell right up front that they are not interested yet when you push beyond that, get to know them and starts to talk about the product they actually become interested)

[Raze]

https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-chasing-women-doesn’t-work-and-why-persistence-does

https://www.girlschase.com/article/3-reasons-women-will-resist-you-how-artfully-persist

https://www.girlschase.com/content/take-women-bed-successful-physical-escalation  

https://www.girlschase.com/content/escalation-windows

https://www.girlschase.com/article/why-autistic-people-struggle-dating-mind-blindness

[Harman]

@NoSelfSelf dojo to the moon to saturn to the solar system the limps wont even know we exists baby

[Leo Gura]

Quote

I have worked as a door to door salesman for about 6 months

The biggest obstacle I had was according to my boss is that I was not pushy enough

I loved everything about except when it came to being pushy

I genuinely cared for my customers and even got an award for my quality

However even If I care about making money because I could not be pushy at all unless I was in survival mode and had to make a sale

I don't like being pushy either.

Quote

Now what main principles can you follow to make sure that you are not harrasing the girl after you get token resistance? (It has happened many times in door to door sales that people tell right up front that they are not interested yet when you push beyond that, get to know them and starts to talk about the product they actually become interested)

Pushing yourself at the open on a girl is actually counter-productive and bad game.

What you should be doing instead is opening the girl in a fun way and quickly getting a sense of how receptive she is. Sometimes you open a girl and her whole face lights up and her body opens up to you and it's just on. That's what you want to screen for. If the girl is not very receptive, don't waste your time, move on to another girl. This is the most efficient way to game.

Now, with that said, sometimes you open a girl and she's just sorta shy, not too hot for you, and needs to be warmed up. In which case you carry on with banter and fun conversation. And you keep it going until she starts to show interest. As long as a girl is willing to talk to you there is no problem with you talking. That's not pushy. You're just being social and she's open to it.

The whole key to great game is being able to read the girl's face, reactions, and body language. Once you get good at this you don't need to push or harass girls, you can tell within minutes or even seconds whether to keep talking or walk away.

Basically, if the girl is smiling you keep plowing and if the girl is frowning then you leave. This ensures that she doesn't feel harassed. And if a girl pushes you away or tells you to leave, you just leave. Don't keep pushing.

But beyond talking you also need to learn to lead and bounce the girl around. Don't just stand in one place talking for 30 minutes. You talk for 5 minutes and then lead her to another place. When you suggest to a girl to move with you, you can immediately gauge how compliant she is. If she likes you she will move with you. Otherwise she won't. So start testing girls for this by just taking them by the hand and moving them.

Bottom line: If a girl is willing to talk to you, you keep talking to her. Then 5-10 mins later you suggest moving together. And if she refuses, then that's your clue that she's not very interested and you can save your time and talk to other girls. Sometimes it takes longer to get a girl to move. Maybe 20 minutes of talking. It's up to you to decide how much time you want to invest in a girl. But if you cannot get her to move within 20 mins then she's probably never sleeping with you.

When your game gets really good it's not pushy at all, it's about really vibing with the girl. You create this fun vibe between each other and then it's so on that being pushy isn't even a factor. You two are just having fun talking and moving together. That's the ideal. There has to be passion between you two. I recommend you change your whole mindset when approaching to one of: vibing, fun, passion! That's what you're attempting to create. And then it's just a matter of finding that one girl in the room who's into it. You will clearly see when a girl is into it. You will have her attention. Her eyes will lock on you. Her body will become open to your touch. She will be grinning from ear to ear. And at the point you can escalate heavy.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Leo Gura