The Ego As Demonic Entity

[Echoes]

I know, I know; it sounds extreme. "The ego is not your enemy" you will say "accept your ego" you will say. But first hear me out.

The ego has it's own agenda. It wants to survive, and it needs energy and a web of (unconscious) justifications for it's existence. It judges, complains, worrys, fears, and is projecting living and happiness into the future to substitute living NOW. The ego is not able to fully love. It is a defense mechanism for not being loved fully. It is terrified to open up again, and again being devastated by projective missiles of non-love (credits to Shunyamurti). So the ego resists full blown love, it thinks love is not present or a scarce ressource. The ego-mind consists of unconscious fragments/projections and is therefore split. It is not whole and fully integrated. It is a monstrous underestimated entity that has nested in our consciousness and is trying to deceive and control us. trying to prevent us from seeing the present moment and absolute truth. It is transforming our lives into a hellrealm and this planet into a radioactive desert. In that sense, the ego is like an alien entity that is trying to survive by all available means.

You will say, there a more healthy ego's than others. And this is true. However, because the fact that the ego is itself a defense mechanism with an existent unconscious consisting of multiple invisible fragments, there is still something in the consciousness that's running it's own agenda. There is still self-deception, delusion, and defense against love. As long as there is an unconscious, consciousness is not fully in control, because it has no knowledge of the ego's real agendas. Even if the ego is empathic and want's goodness for the world, it is still limited by unconscious fantasys.  

In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to sugarcoat the ego and live with it. It must be transcended fully and fight against with acceptance and love. What do you think?

e: acceptance has an ambivalent meaning here. One acceptance would be "Yea, I have an ego, so what? gonna live with it and have fun" The other acceptance would be a deep investigation through meditation/psychedelics with full commitment to extinguish this entity through collecting and loving every unconscious fragment of the ego (I don't see yet how this can ever be possible)

Edited March 10, 2017 by Echoes

[Psychonaut]

The ego has spoken. 

The ego is not a thing. It's egoic consciousness. It protects you. You just don't need that protection.

[Shin]

Ego is just inconscious thoughts patterns, all webbed into the delusion that we are separate from one another.

Thinking that it is evil, is probably one of the best way to fuel it.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Shin

[InDaZone]

I absolutely see where you are going with this and concur that it is very easy to see it as a demonic enemy within yourself.

I suppose though, at the same time, it isn't healthy to think this way as it means that we will end up resisting / pushing away the ego, which will in  turn just make it stronger like others have pointed out.

No doubt though, that it is important to watch out for certain "ego delusions" within your mind so that you  don't fall victim to them.

[Echoes]

34 minutes ago, Psychonaut said:

The ego has spoken. 

The ego is not a thing. It's egoic consciousness. It protects you. You just don't need that protection.

the ego consists of things. It consists of repressed traumatic memories/emotions. a web of unconscious fragments, composed out of beliefs/assumptions/different personalities or roles. "Ego" is just a label to describe this mechanisms. The problem is, that it protects us also against love and truth.

32 minutes ago, Shin said:

Ego is just inconscious thoughts patterns, all webbed into the delusion that we are separate from one another.

Thinking that it is evil, is probably one of the best way to fuel it.

Look what the ego is doing in this world. Of course there is no such thing as good and evil in the absolute sense, but relatively speaking the ego causes more harm than good. Yes, it's various unconscious patterns, thats why it's split. It's not whole. That IS the ego. In wholeness, ego is not.

29 minutes ago, InDaZone said:

I absolutely see where you are going with this and concur that it is very easy to see it as a demonic enemy within yourself.

I suppose though, at the same time, it isn't healthy to think this way as it means that we will end up resisting / pushing away the ego, which will in  turn just make it stronger like others have pointed out.

No doubt though, that it is important to watch out for certain "ego delusions" within your mind so that you  don't fall victim to them.

Yes, I agree. But simultaneously the ego IS the obstacle that has to be transcended. I mean, that's probably the reason why we are all here. Enemy may be not the best label, but to me it certainly behaves like an entity that has nested in us. We could also say that there are mechanisms in us who together behave like an entity, but that's just semantics.

[Echoes]

9 minutes ago, unknownworld said:

Ego cannot exist when you accept the present moment. It's not about accepting the ego, it's about accepting the present moment. Ego is fueled and arises whenever you resist the present moment. 

 

Yes, that's why the ego exists in the first place. It's a resistance against the present moment. It needs linear time to survive. But still I think it's important to look at all the shadows of the ego and accept them. Otherwise consciousness will almost always be pulled back into it's gravitational energy.

[Christian]

There is nothing "evil" about the ego. The ego is just your sense of self and calling it evil is just going to give it a greater sense of self. Do you realize that you are just engaging in this game with your post. You are talking about your ego as though it is some separate entity from you. No, the ego is the thing that wrote the post right there. You want to transcend the ego, but in doing it, you want to be gentle to yourself.

You can imagine that calling certain aspects of yourself "evil" will lead to building a shadow-side. Real growth is about accepting the aspects of yourself that you have been suppressing, even the so-called evil stuff. But doing it in a mindful way, not a dogmatic or forceful way. Intention is important when transcending the ego. Do you want to transcend the ego to experience truth or do you want it because your ego is "the devil" and there is something to conquer there? If you want to conquer something, what is the entity that wants to conquer the ego? That is the thing you should REALLY be worried about. That is just more ego right there for ya.

[Echoes]

4 minutes ago, Christian said:

There is nothing "evil" about the ego. The ego is just your sense of self and calling it evil is just going to give it a greater sense of self. Do you realize that you are just engaging in this game with your post. You are talking about your ego as though it is some separate entity from you. No, the ego is the thing that wrote the post right there. You want to transcend the ego, but in doing it, you want to be gentle to yourself.

You can imagine that calling certain aspects of yourself "evil" will lead to building a shadow-side. Real growth is about accepting the aspects of yourself that you have been suppressing, even the so-called evil stuff. But doing it in a mindful way, not a dogmatic or forceful way. Intention is important when transcending the ego. Do you want to transcend the ego to experience truth or do you want it because your ego is "the devil" and there is something to conquer there? If you want to conquer something, what is the entity that wants to conquer the ego? That is the thing you should REALLY be worried about. That is just more ego right there for ya.

I think you didn't fully understand what I was saying. Yes, the "me" who was describing the ego, WAS the ego. I know that. But we need a form of communication, right? And the term "Ego" is accepted and known in this community. I also could call me an entity. In absolute truth, no entity exists nowhere. However, "we" are emptiness. And in this emptiness, there -seemingly- lives an entity with own (to us unconscious) agendas. You could also say, a mythological apparent entity is arising in emptiness/consciousness. There is only nothingness, but in this nothingness, an "entity" has nested with which we identified ourselves. Again, once non-duality is realized, the duality of "good" and "evil" is just a dream. But in relative terms we would call killing jews/raping people/steal from others "evil". And it is the ego who does this. Both on the micro and the macro cosmos it's running amok. I also wrote we must love and accept the unconscious shadow parts that are already existent. This is the opposite of building a shadow-side.

[PureExp]

1 hour ago, Echoes said:

And it is the ego who does this.

No ! Please do not make that mistake. A bunch of survival programs do not do anything on their own. You are giving too much importance to Ego than it really deserves.

Even consciousness does not do anything. It merely witnesses. There is no doer of any sort. Events are experiences, and experiences happen, all varieties, possibilities, permutations and combinations of experiences happen.

There is an elegant way, just know what Ego is, become aware of it. That's all one needs to do. Don't use a sword where a needle is enough.

[Psychonaut]

This mind-body-spirit complex has had an intuition about the ego.

An analogy is best used to explain what is meant.

Envision an onion with many protective layers. This is you. 

When you are around certain people like your parents, boss, girlfriend or random stranger layers might be added. This is either to protect you from saying something you shouldnt or prevent emotional pain in other selves. 

Can you see a self perpetuating cycle here? It is even built into the language that this mind-body-spirit complex is using to communicate with you.

Once the desire to seek for truth and reunion with intelligent infinity what is referred to as the ego can be encountered and many properties are assigned to it. However the important thing based on this mind-body-spirit complexes experience with the ego is the following:

There are many layers to an onion. If you have had any experience with real onions you might know that even if the outer layers are rotten the core remains fresh. These rotten layers might be the cause for the negative properties that you have assigned to the ego. 

The ego can be seen as the guardian of your onion which you refer to as "you". When layers are peeled away a backlash from the ego may be experienced. This is very common for the techniques and paths that have been devised to get to a non egoic experience of consciousness.

This backlash can be very severe and this mind-body-spirit complex has had some experiences with this. In later stages, experiences that you might refer to as panic attacks or existential terror can be experienced. Whenever a strong backlash is experienced there might be a very strong urge to relieve the pain. This might be through sex, masturbation, food cravings, tv, videos or anything that can act as a distraction. In a sense what you refer to as ego is trying to grasp at anything to make it stay. It might do anything to convince you to hold on to your egoic onion.

However once you have let go fully "you" can experience a completely impersonal experience of reality. 

This mind-body-spirit complex has had success with using the Wim Hof breathing technique to help relax at times of panic attacks. Any breathing techniques, referred to as pranayama in Hinduism might be useful.

Meditation is useful to cultivate self control in the prefrontal cortex and provide some insight into the workings of the mind.

Entheogens help to temporarily remove several layers of the onion. However too high doses might lead to panic attacks which this mind-body-spirit complex has experienced. 

These are some things that have helped this mind-body-spirit complex to accelerate it's growth:

Open mindedness, self control, honesty (mainly with yourself), a practical approach (if it doesn't help discard it), the ability to let things)emotions/concepts/thoughts go (if it doesn't help you throw it away), acceptance of what is, acceptance of feelings, acceptance of other selves state of development...

 

[Galyna]

8 hours ago, Echoes said:

I know, I know; it sounds extreme. "The ego is not your enemy" you will say "accept your ego" you will say. But first hear me out.

The ego has it's own agenda. It wants to survive, and it needs energy and a web of (unconscious) justifications for it's existence. It judges, complains, worrys, fears, and is projecting living and happiness into the future to substitute living NOW. The ego is not able to fully love. It is a defense mechanism for not being loved fully. It is terrified to open up again, and again being devastated by projective missiles of non-love (credits to Shunyamurti). So the ego resists full blown love, it thinks love is not present or a scarce ressource. The ego-mind consists of unconscious fragments/projections and is therefore split. It is not whole and fully integrated. It is a monstrous underestimated entity that has nested in our consciousness and is trying to deceive and control us. trying to prevent us from seeing the present moment and absolute truth. It is transforming our lives into a hellrealm and this planet into a radioactive desert.

You will say, there a more healthy ego's than others. And this is true. However, because the fact that the ego is itself a defense mechanism with an existent unconscious consisting of multiple invisible fragments, there is still something in the consciousness that's running it's own agenda. There is still self-deception, delusion, and defense against love. As long as there is an unconscious, consciousness is not fully in control, because it has no knowledge of the ego's real agendas. Even if the ego is empathic and want's goodness for the world, it is still limited by unconscious fantasys. 

In that sense, the ego is like an alien entity that is trying to survive by all available means. The ego is the true puppet master in this day and age, riding this earth to it's apocalyptic end. 

In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to sugarcoat the ego and live with it. It must be transcended fully and fight against with acceptance and love. What do you think?

e: acceptance has an ambivalent meaning here. One acceptance would be "Yea, I have an ego, so what? gonna live with it and have fun" The other acceptance would be a deep investigation through meditation/psychedelics with full commitment to extinguish this entity through collecting and loving every unconscious fragment of the ego (I don't see yet how this can ever be possible)

[Echoes]

3 hours ago, PureExp said:

No ! Please do not make that mistake. A bunch of survival programs do not do anything on their own. You are giving too much importance to Ego than it really deserves.

Even consciousness does not do anything. It merely witnesses. There is no doer of any sort. Events are experiences, and experiences happen, all varieties, possibilities, permutations and combinations of experiences happen.

There is an elegant way, just know what Ego is, become aware of it. That's all one needs to do. Don't use a sword where a needle is enough.

You are saying the illusional state of consciousness that identifies with the body/mind is not causing the major problems on this earth? Sure, in the absolute sense you can say that things just happen. undifferentiated perceptions and thoughts enter and leave awareness. But that wouldn't get us anywhere. Yes, things just happen. But to communicate and adress certain areas of life we have to conceptualize them or try to combine observed patterns. 

Quote

just know what Ego is, become aware of it. A bunch of survival programs. There is no doer of any sort.

Yes, thats ultimately true. But that's like saying "you are already enlightened, you have nothing to do" To know the ego it is important or atleast helpful to understand and know how it works, even if it's not real. Almost all of the content of Actualized.org is about mechanisms of the ego and "a bunch of survival programs". In the end you have to drop all of this, but up to a certain lvl I think it's helpful

@Psychonaut But the ego is the complete onion. The true self is not the inner layers or the core of the onion, but no-onion  Also, I wouldn't agree that the "rotten" aspects are on the outer layers. The outer layers like emotions/thoughts are only the "excesses" of the repressed traumas or deeply ingrained delusional beliefs. The ego is like an iceberg, most of it's operating is unconscious.

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Echoes

[pluto]

The Ego is everything resistant to natural universal flow.

[Bodhi123]

@Echoes @Leo Gura

Ego = Mind = Sin = Devil = Hell

Are these your thoughts or Leo's?

I already know the answer.

[Prabhaker]

17 hours ago, Echoes said:

It is transforming our lives into a hellrealm and this planet into a radioactive desert. 

The ego is an accumulated phenomenon, a by-product of living with others. If a child lives totally alone, he will never come to grow an ego. But that is not going to help. He will remain like an animal. That doesn't mean that he will come to know the real self, no.

The real can be known only through the false, so the ego is a must. One has to pass through it. It is a discipline. The real can be known only through the illusion. You cannot know the truth directly. First you have to know that which is not true. First you have to encounter the untrue. Through that encounter you become capable of knowing the truth. If you know the false as the false, truth will dawn upon you.

One reaches to knowledge only through suffering. You cannot throw anything just by logical argument. You can throw something only when it has become so painful that it cannot be carried any further. This is the mechanism of life: you have to be egoists, you have to fight your way, you have to fight with so many millions of desires around you, you have to struggle, you have to survive.

Ego is a survival measure. If a child is born without the ego, he will die. He cannot survive, it is impossible, because if he feels hunger he will not feel: I am hungry. He will feel there is hunger, but not related to him. The moment hunger is felt, the child feels: I am hungry, he starts crying and making efforts to be fed. The child grows through the growth of his ego.

Ego is part of natural growth. But that doesn’t mean that you have to remain with it forever. It is a natural growth, and then there is a second step when it has to be dropped. That too is natural. But the second step can be taken only when the first has come to its crescendo, its climax, when the first has reached its peak. 

[Bob84]

Ego A says ego B is evil 

[Echoes]

6 hours ago, Bodhi123 said:

@Echoes @Leo Gura

Ego = Mind = Sin = Devil = Hell

Are these your thoughts or Leo's?

I already know the answer.

You compare a similarity in phrasing with something Leo wrote some time ago and conclude that everything I wrote are Leo's thoughts? Why don't you reply this to anyone who says Infinity=God; God=Love? It's not even Leo's thoughts, but christian mythology. If you study both non-duality and christianity it's kinda obvious to make this comparison.

5 hours ago, Bob84 said:

Ego A says ego B is evil 

I already said something about this. 

 

[Bob84]

1 hour ago, Echoes said:

I already said something about this.

I'm to lazy to read all posts

[Echoes]

1 minute ago, Bob84 said:

I'm to lazy to read all posts

That's your inner demon! 

[Bodhi123]

4 hours ago, Echoes said:

It's not even Leo's thoughts, but christian mythology

True

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 5:37 AM, Echoes said:

It is transforming our lives into a hellrealm and this planet into a radioactive desert. 

 

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 5:37 AM, Echoes said:

It is a monstrous underestimated entity that has nested in our consciousness and is trying to deceive and control us.

What do you gain from having such a negative and antagonistic view of the ego?

You're fucking yourself up for no reason. Stop it.

You are not wise. You are depressed.