Russia and Ukraine making me feel nervous

[no_name]

8 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

I don't mean to be offensive at all, but so called "Nazis" are actually situated pretty close to Donbass region if we are to believe the story. 

They say the most famous nazi battalion is Azov - which is named for its proximity to Azov Sea, which is on the east of Ukraine. And their base is believe to be in Mariopol, which is in the east as well and very close to Donbass.

So they didn't really need to travel anywhere, they were very close

It was formed in 2014… after russia first invaded the eastern part of Ukraine, to fight russia..

Edited October 9, 2022 by no_name

[Hello from Russia]

3 minutes ago, no_name said:

It was formed in 2014… after russia first invaded the eastern part of Ukraine, to fight russia.. would only make sense for them to form in the eastern part of Ukraine, I don’t think they could have fought remotely..

Sure, but then it means they legitemately travelled across from the west to east to fight with pro-Russian population here, which kinda contradicts your argument as well

[no_name]

3 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

Sure, but then it means they legitemately travelled across from the west to east to fight with pro-Russian population here, which kinda contradicts your argument as well

They were not formed to fight “russian population”, they were formed to fight russia that invaded in 2014.

There was no issues in the eastern part of Ukraine prior to 2014.

Edited October 9, 2022 by no_name

[Hello from Russia]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regimen

Even US banned the funding of this battalion, and it was before 2014

Read chapter 4 about Human Rights Violations and chapter 5 about Neo Naziism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regiment#Human_rights_violations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regiment#Neo-Nazism

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, no_name said:

The “nazis” live in the western Ukraine. Unless you are saying that for some reason the “nazis” from western Ukraine travelled all the way to the east of Ukraine to abuse the russian speaking population there… what you’re saying just doesn’t make sense whatsoever. 

From what I understand there are many Russians living in Eastern Ukraine and there has been fighting in that region between them and Ukrainian nationalists. Which is why Putin wanted to annex those regions. Of course Putin also wants to annex them for other reasons such as natural resources and to get a land bridge to Crimea.

Quote

Is Alaska American? Who’s to say?

It's Russian

The situation in Crimea is much less clear than Alaska.

Quote

Ukraine has been investing in the infrastructure in Crimea, developing its economy, etc., for years. You can’t just come and chop a peace of land away because you desire to do so..

I generally agree. But again, people have different perspectives on that. Crimea used to be part of Russia and has many Russians living there.

And in practice, the way politics works is.... yes, you literally CAN just come and chop a piece of land away because you desire to do so. If you have the power to enforce it. That's how countries are made. And that is exactly what happened. This is a power game. If you don't have the raw power to hold a piece of land, you lose it. Putin understands this reality. Yes, it's an asshole move, but countries are made by assholes not saints.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Leo Gura

[no_name]

2 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regimen

Even US banned the funding of this battalion, and it was before 2014

Read chapter 4 about Human Rights Violations and chapter 5 about Neo Naziism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regiment#Human_rights_violations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regiment#Neo-Nazism

And it is English wikipedia btw. If you read it in Russian, it's way worse 

 

“Neo-Nazism comprises the post–World War IImilitant, social, and political movements that seek to revive and reinstate Nazi ideology. Neo-Nazis employ their ideology to promote hatred and white supremacy, attack racial and ethnic minorities (which include antisemitism and Islamophobia), and in some cases to create a fascist state.[1][2]”

I think @Something Funny explained brilliantly that Ukrainian “nazis” do not apply to this description. 

[Hello from Russia]

Quote

In 2016, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch received several credible allegations of abuse and torture by the regiment.[225] Reports published by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) documented looting of civilian homes and unlawful detention and torture of civilians between September 2014 and February 2015 "by Ukrainian armed forces and the Azov regiment in and around Shyrokyne".[226][227]

Another OHCHR report documented an instance of rape and torture, writing: "A man with a mental disability was subject to cruel treatment, rape and other forms of sexual violence by 8 to 10 members of the 'Azov' and 'Donbas' (another Ukrainian battalion) battalions in August–September 2014. The victim's health subsequently deteriorated and he was hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital."[227] A report from January 2015 stated that a Donetsk Republic supporter was detained and tortured with electricity and waterboarding and struck repeatedly on his genitals, which resulted in his confessing to spying for pro-Russian militants.[227]: 20 

Quote

The Azov Battalion has been described as a far-right militia,[63][16] with connections to neo-Nazism[233] and members wearing neo-Nazi and SS symbols and regalia, and expressing neo-Nazi views.[61][234]

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[no_name]

3 hours ago, Something Funny said:

Especially since the biggest irony is that whatever nazis there are in Ukraine right now, were unheard of before 2014. And even if they existed, they existed as marginalised groups with zero social and political power.

And whaetever war crimes were committed in Donbass, they would have never happened if it wasn't for Russia.

But oh surprise, if you attack people and hurt them, and open centuries old national wounds, they will inevitably become more hateful and radicalize back at you. WHAT A SURPRISE.

@Hello from Russia

[no_name]

3 hours ago, Something Funny said:

You probably don't  even have any concrete definition of what a neo-nazi is in your mind. Is a person who committed a war crime and speak Ukrainian a neo-nazi? Is a person who voted for Poroshenko a neo-nazi? Is a person who says that we shouldn't teach Russian language in school a neo-nazi? Etc. 

….

Most of those people you call nazis are just individuals traumatized by centuries of Russian oppression. A fun fact is that most of them are "nazi" only towards Russia. They don't exhibit other features of naziism like racism, homophobia, eugenics, etc. They also don't antagonize progressive west, and democratic values like true Russian nazis do.

[Hello from Russia]

1 minute ago, no_name said:

3 hours ago, Something Funny said:

Most of those people you call nazis are just individuals traumatized by centuries of Russian oppression. A fun fact is that most of them are "nazi" only towards Russia. They don't exhibit other features of naziism like racism, homophobia, eugenics, etc. They also don't antagonize progressive west, and democratic values like true Russian nazis do.

Sure, but why anti-semitism? They actually do exhibit these things

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Hello from Russia]

My bad, it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regiment

[no_name]

@Hello from Russia

Let’s first establish this, if it wasn’t for russia invading in 2014, there would be no “nazis” and no Azov battalion.

Russia started the conflict in 2014, so it could then use it as a pre-tense to:

1. Annex Crimea

2. Start a full blown war a few years later

Thats just a game russia played. De-stabilized the east of Ukraine, then used it to justify the full blown war.

Just like any other country, Ukraine has a tiny monitory (0.0001-2%) of, like I mentioned, rapists, nazis, psychopaths, drug addicts, etc. Knowing that majority of russian population is easily brainwashed and unable of nuanced complex analysis , like the one in my prior sentence, russia used a few of such extremely rare examples, and blew it out of proportion.

As a matter of fact, if I had nothing else to do with my life, I could google pictures of russian nazis, and find a ton of them too, like the one below. 

 

So why is there such a huge problem with anti-semitism in russia?

Edited October 9, 2022 by no_name

[Hello from Russia]

1 minute ago, Something Funny said:

Are you aware of the fact that both Zelenskyi and Poroshenko (supposedly main supporters of nazis in Ukraine) are both Jews? As well as most of Ukraine's ruling elite and oligarchs.

Sure, but it doesn't have any connection to my question, because I am talking about Azov people and their tatoos and reputation, not Zelensky or Poroshenko or other elite

[Hello from Russia]

3 minutes ago, no_name said:

@Hello from Russia

Let’s first establish this, if it wasn’t for pa-russia invading in 2014, there would be no “nazis” and no Azov battalion.

Nope. This wikipedia page and independent research from western sources state that people from Azov were nazis long before Azov's creation

Maybe there wouldn't be an Azov Battalion, sure, but why does it matter? They would do their nazi things under a different name/structures

Also, these guys are clearly not only anti-Russia, they are anti non-white people in general and exhibit all kinds of xenophobias that are generally related to Naziism as a phenomena

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Galyna]

4 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

But there are and they are very cruel and stage Reddish

I've seen a lot of videos of them committing various kind of atrocities and basically revealing their consciousness and vibe. 

That is why Russians will be slaughtered like cows by their own Putin.

He does not give a shit about his own people.

Look at this poor soldiers and ammunition. They have been spending all the governmental money for so many years on their own needs. Now, your own people need to buy their own ammunition, this is ridicules. 

 Whatever subsidies he is giving you now are bread crumps compared to the poverty, he allowed mafia to lead Russia too. 

Did they show you there in Russia what crime did they commit, your solders in my native city Mariupol, in our theater?  And after this you are saying that Ukrainians committing atrocities. 

Propaganda in Russia is way too ridicules. My sister lives in Moscow now, my dad as well, both brainwashed by Putin. She truly believes that after mobilization, if her spouse is chosen, he will do some training and return back home from "Special Operation". 

Guys, you need to wake up to a stark reality. I do not hate Russians; I truly think that poor people there don't have any control over what they are being fed.  

I agree with Leo partially that Lunatic wants to protect his territory from Nato, but please, lets be honest with ourselves, Russian government including Putin has never had interest in poor Russians. 

 

 

[Hello from Russia]

@Galyna Guys, I'm not pro-Russian at all, stop framing me in such a way / associate with Russian Government just because I talk about Russian agenda and nazis

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Hello from Russia]

@Something Funny Sure, they actually also tried to whitewash themselves big time after all these media scandals and so forth. Maybe right now there is not that many nazis in it

Anyways, I think we gotta agree both that we have no clue how many nazis are there in Azov right now and was in the past. We can't deny tho there were nazis and there were atrocities, which was my only point of this convo

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[no_name]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

From what I understand there are many Russians living in Eastern Ukraine and there has been fighting in that region between them and Ukrainian nationalists. Which is why Putin wanted to annex those regions. Of course Putin also wants to annex them for other reasons such as natural resources and to get a land bridge to Crimea.

That is not true. The fighting that started there in 2014 was because of russia.

Russia wanted to de-stabilize Ukraine after Maidan since it lost it’s influence in Ukraine when the pro-russian president was overthrown. Russia wanted to halt Ukraine’s integration with European Union, and so it started the conflict in the eastern Ukraine. There were lots of soldiers captured there with russian passports, and the ammunition and military equipment was coming from russia.

[Galyna]

2 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

@Galyna Dude, I'm not pro-Russian at all, stop framing me in such a way just because I talk about Russian agenda

 

I am reading your posts and they are very misleading to the other people in our forum.

Especially about Donbass, do you have any relatives there?

People hate Putin there in Donbass, and they do not want to be a part of Russia. They are tired of the conflict that has been there for 8 years. 

What the fuck are you talking about, all the ruins of wars, Russia left Donbass behind, nobody helps to rebuild that territory. Maybe 8 years ago some were delusional, now they see that Putin does not give a crap about them. He uses that region as his tactic in war. 

I feel sorry that Russians are so ignorant. Too much ORT and Soloviev. 

[no_name]

@Hello from Russia

I truly think it would help you to understand the situation with nazis in Ukraine, if we first talk about the nazi situation in russia

 

Could you please explain to me why are there people in russia doing the nazi salute?

Edited October 9, 2022 by no_name