Can stage yellow support the death penalty?

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Vets euthanize thousands of animals. This would be easier than that cause this ain't no innocent dog.

 

Quote

What not a lot of people know it that there is a higher number of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder in executioners than Iraq war veterans. Studies have revealed that 31% of prison personnel that work in executions will have PTSD later in their lives and 20% in Iraq war veterans.

https://medium.com/@batchellerlauren/the-emotional-impact-on-executioners-9c448c4e02ec

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

https://medium.com/@batchellerlauren/the-emotional-impact-on-executioners-9c448c4e02ec

That is a good point, however you'd have to compare that to the PTSD and abuse workers receive over 50 years of housing a psychopath.

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

That is a good point, however you'd have to compare that to the PTSD and abuse workers receive over 50 years of housing a psychopath.

I don't think the worst killers are actually that much worse in terms of behavior than the average violent prisoner, and again, you're not really removing that many people through executions.

[zurew]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

however you'd have to compare that to the PTSD and abuse workers receive over 50 years of housing a psychopath.

So right now you have a point about workers being harmed by toxic human behaviour. How do you get around this question: Why shouldn't we kill people in mental asylums - they are giving people all sorts of bad vibes, unpredictable behaviour , probably a lot of anxiety and sadness as well.

[thepixelmonk]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is a good point, however you'd have to compare that to the PTSD and abuse workers receive over 50 years of housing a psychopath.

Don't we already have this info? Prison guards aren't the ones who have 31% PTSD rates, it's the executioners.

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, zurew said:

So right now you have a point about workers being harmed by toxic human behaviour. How do you get around this question: Why shouldn't we kill people in mental asylums - they are giving people all sorts of bad vibes, unpredictable behaviour , probably a lot of anxiety and sadness as well.

Should we kill kids with ADHD? Jking 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, zurew said:

So right now you have a point about workers being harmed by toxic human behaviour. How do you get around this question: Why shouldn't we kill people in mental asylums - they are giving people all sorts of bad vibes, unpredictable behaviour , probably a lot of anxiety and sadness as well.

1) If they are overly dangerous, maybe we should kill them.

2) But generally, if they didn't harm anyone then it would be unfair to kill them.

4 minutes ago, thepixelmonk said:

Don't we already have this info? Prison guards aren't the ones who have 31% PTSD rates, it's the executioners.

Firstly, PTSD is not the only factor. Secondly, you need way more gaurds and support staff than executioners.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Should we kill kids with ADHD? Jking 

We should kill people who drive loud motorcycles in the morning

Edited September 4, 2022 by Leo Gura

[AtheisticNonduality]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

That is a good point, however you'd have to compare that to the PTSD and abuse workers receive over 50 years of housing a psychopath.

No, the power dynamic in the prisons is not prisoners bullying guards; it's guards beating up the inmates, especially on death row. Most of the people attracted to that line of work will have superiority complexes. Same with police. If you're basing your entire occupation on imprisoning people, being an authority meant to keep them in line, etc.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/sexual-victimization-reported-adult-correctional-authorities-2012-15

Quote

Fifty-eight percent of substantiated incidents of sexual victimization in 2015 were perpetrated by inmates, while 42% were perpetrated by staff members.

And there's Echols, who has brain damage and permanent health problems from being severely beaten by the guards on death row when he was falsely convicted of murdering children (timestamped).

 

[AtheisticNonduality]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

We should kill people who drive loud motorcycles in the morning

Leaf-blowers, lawnmowers, weed-whackers, etc. Leaf-blowers especially just shouldn't be used in any context.

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Should we kill kids with ADHD?

Yes.

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

if they didn't harm anyone then it would be unfair to kill them.

I think the main job of the criminal justice system is to create a safe society, and I don't think killing a few naked prisoners is going to have a dramatic effect on improving the safety of society. I sense the lust for retribution.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

No, the power dynamic in the prisons is not prisoners bullying guards; it's guards beating up the inmates,

I agree that is a problem.

But also consider why the gaurds become assholes in first place: because they have to in order to successfully deal with assholes and survive at that job.

Cops are tough because they deal with a lot of shit every day.

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Yes.

Nooooo ? @thisintegrated 

?

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I sense the lust for retribution.

I honestly don't care about retribution.

[zurew]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

1) If they are overly dangerous, maybe we should kill them.

2) But generally, if they didn't harm anyone then it would be unfair to kill them.

I think if there would be a weird hypothetical where the guards would benefit from a murderer you still wouldn't care about that part, I think you would still try to execute that murderer, is that true, or giving the guards a hard time is really a point that changes your opinion on this matter?

Lets say only sociopathic guards will work with these murderers, how do you get around that?

Edited September 4, 2022 by zurew

[Leo Gura]

You guys are missing the point of this thread. The issue was whether Yellow can support the death penalty. I think that has been answered.

I'm really not attached to the position itself. If you want to hug a psychopath, go ahead.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys are missing the point of this thread. The issue was whether Yellow can be pro death penalty. And I think I that has been answered.

I think stage yellow person wouldn't support death penalty, however if we focus on the point of this thread, then I think this thread's goal was more about trying to find hypothetical scenario where taking a super controversial position would be an overal good for society, but tier 1 people wouldn't take that position because of their morals, even though they would know beforehand, that taking that particular position would be a global benefit overall.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, zurew said:

I think if there would be a weird hypothetical where the guards would benefit from a murderer you still wouldn't care about that part, I think you would still try to execute that murderer, is that true, or giving the guards a hard time is really a point that changes your opinion on this matter?

I think caretaking and housing extremely deranged people is an unfair burden on decent, hard-working, honest people.

Do you really want to design a system when the caretakers are as nasty as the criminals? No, you want a humane prison system. But for a humane prison system you need to weed out the worst of the worst.

I would even be in favor of the death penalty for criminals who did not commit murder, but are so violent and abusive in prison that they are a nightmare to handle. Some kind of 3 strikes policy where if you act abusively towards the staff or inmates, you get axed.

The issue here is really one of concern for the staff who have to deal with these monsters. And yes, some of them are monsters. So what I'm for is minimizing the harm and danger towards the staff and creating a non-abusive prison environment where the good criminals can be rehabilitated. You need some process of sorting the redeemable from the irredeemable criminals.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Leo Gura

[The Mystical Man]

I don't think we have the right to execute anyone, regardless of what they've done. Just keep them away from society. Execution costs more: https://www.criminaljusticedegreehub.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-execute-a-death-row-inmate/

[Carl-Richard]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys are missing the point of this thread. The issue was whether Yellow can support the death penalty. I think that has been answered.

I'm really not attached to the position itself. If you want to hug a psychopath, go ahead.

I think we're partially demonstrating the point by showing that Yellow can have internal disagreements (if that is a reasonable assumption)