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There is zero evidence the world is imaginary

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Posted (edited)

Please provide some evidence that the world is imaginary and I will attempt to dispute every claim. If you can't prove that the world is imaginary then how can you call it so?

To be clear I'm not claiming the world is real but rather there is no evidence that it's imaginary.

Edited by Questioner

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11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Questioner you have to awaken to it.  

 

If one "awakens" to falsehood then one is delusional not enlightened.

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Just now, Questioner said:

If one "awakens" to falsehood then one is delusional not enlightened.

Correct in which case it's not awakening it's someone deluding themselves.   Awakening from a dream is Consciousness waking to itself - it is direct Being so there can be none who doubts.


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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9 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Correct in which case it's not awakening it's someone deluding themselves.   Awakening from a dream is Consciousness waking to itself - it is direct Being so there can be none who doubts.

Which dream did you wake up from?

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Posted (edited)

Go do some practices. This will not help you gain any clarity or understanding.

Edited by Gesundheit2

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1 hour ago, Questioner said:

Please provide some evidence that the world is imaginary and I will attempt to dispute every claim. If you can't prove that the world is imaginary then how can you call it so?

Materialism requires evidence, but there can never be any since all evidence for a material world is inextricable from experience.


All paths lead to a deeper unreality.

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1 hour ago, Questioner said:

Please provide some evidence that the world is imaginary

If I jump out of an airplane and flap my arms prove to me I'm not flying. 

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33 minutes ago, axiom said:

Materialism requires evidence, but there can never be any since all evidence for a material world is inextricable from experience.

That is not proof that the world is imaginary.

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13 minutes ago, cetus said:

If I jump out of an airplane and flap my arms prove to me I'm not flying. 

You're flying straight into the ground.

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1 hour ago, Questioner said:

Please provide some evidence that the world is imaginary and I will attempt to dispute every claim. If you can't prove that the world is imaginary then how can you call it so?

I think this is said because if you seriously meditate, deconstruct all the learned concepts that you take for granted, do psychedelics to detach yourself from the collective ego that has you trapped, you will realize that reality is absolute. there is no one thing perceiving another, there are no separate things interacting with each other, there is an absolute unity that is reality, and there is nothing outside of it. the idea "outside" is just an idea inside the unit. everything is just an idea of unity that has no limits, and that unity, how couldn't it be otherwise, ultimately, is you. that is, there is only existence, without limit. limitless power. limitless intelligence. a well that has no bottom but that always, no matter how much you go into it, is you. and everything that seems to be happening is just an idea, a dream that you have

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@Questioner Now your catching on!

What I'm saying is any resemblance of flight would be an illusion. And a temporary one at best.

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7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think this is said because if you seriously meditate, deconstruct all the learned concepts that you take for granted, do psychedelics to detach yourself from the collective ego that has you trapped, you will realize that reality is absolute. there is no one thing perceiving another, there are no separate things interacting with each other, there is an absolute unity that is reality, and there is nothing outside of it. the idea "outside" is just an idea inside the unit. everything is just an idea of unity that has no limits, and that unity, how couldn't it be otherwise, ultimately, is you. that is, there is only existence, without limit. limitless power. limitless intelligence. a well that has no bottom but that always, no matter how much you go into it, is you. and everything that seems to be happening is just an idea, a dream that you have

Well reality is interacting with reality I won't deny that. Inside and outside are relative to certain boundaries (such as the body). Do you deny the existence of boundaries?

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Posted (edited)

19 minutes ago, Questioner said:

Well reality is interacting with reality I won't deny that. Inside and outside are relative to certain boundaries (such as the body). Do you deny the existence of boundaries?

There exist , but ultimately they are apparent. look at it from a material point of view: all reality is made up of the same particles, combined differently. each organism is a pattern in which quadrillions of particles are located exactly. what is this pattern? is something? inert matter is also organized according to physical laws. a planet is a set of particles organized by these laws. what are these laws? are they something? And these elementary particles, if you break them down to the last, they are just energy taking a shape. what is energy? And the shape? Is something? it is all the emptiness "imagining" itself and creating an artistic mosaic that goes far beyond what our mind can conceive. the same as if you penetrate a particle to the end, if you penetrate yourself to the end, you will find an infinite, absolute void, in which everything is possible. that emptiness is you, or me. we are the same. The thing is that this emptiness has a quality, it is. it is full power. absolute power. There is not outside. It is not so difficult to get there, it is to work for a while. 

You, as you perceived yourself, are an idea of that limitless, but same time, you are that, because really, nothing is except that. So that's why it could day that you are like a dream 

The key is realization that's almost impossible without psychedelic: absolute. It's difficult because the mind is a machine that make contrasts, thoughs are put one thing in relation with another, relative. Absolute is alone, you can't think in it

 

 

Edited by Breakingthewall

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You also can’t prove it’s non imaginary. So it could be both. Why do you stick to the belief that reality is non imaginary? Because it keeps you sane. Seriously doubting the realness of reality is really painful. Your mind hates it. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be true. 

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Posted (edited)

Truth > proof.
 

At best I can provide you with a counter example about why reality being imaginary cannot be proved nor disproven.

 

In this video, Carl Sagan demonstrates how unless a three dimensional being lifts the 2D flatlanders from flatland, they can never even conceive (let alone prove) the existence of the 3 third "up" axis.

Awakening is akin to this thought experiment. Unless you do the practice to awaken to any given facet of ultimate reality, it cannot be percieved through direct experience. It can happen by serindepity for some but that's a big stretch to even consider..

Same goes with god, it cannot be proven, nor disproven, it is completely "transparent" by design (for the ego atleast), and the transparency of god is proportional to the thickness of one's ego.

 

For a more elaborate explanation on matters that fall outside of provability watch Leo's video on the metaphysical implications of Gödel's incompleteness theorem.

Edited by 5-D - L O V E

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23 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

There exist , but ultimately they are apparent. look at it from a material point of view: all reality is made up of the same particles, combined differently. each organism is a pattern in which quadrillions of particles are located exactly. what is this pattern? is something? inert matter is also organized according to physical laws. a planet is a set of particles organized by these laws. what are these laws? are they something? And these elementary particles, if you break them down to the last, they are just energy taking a shape. what is energy? And the shape? Is something? it is all the emptiness "imagining" itself and creating an artistic mosaic that goes far beyond what our mind can conceive. the same as if you penetrate a particle to the end, if you penetrate yourself to the end, you will find an infinite, absolute void, in which everything is possible. that emptiness is you, or me. we are the same. The thing is that this emptiness has a quality, it is. it is full power. absolute power. There is not outside. It is not so difficult to get there, it is to work for a while. 

You, as you perceived yourself, are an idea of that limitless, but same time, you are that, because really, nothing is except that. So that's why it could day that you are like a dream 

The key is realization that's almost impossible without psychedelic: absolute. It's difficult because the mind is a machine that make contrasts, thoughs are put one thing in relation with another, relative. Absolute is alone, you can't think in it

 

 

What precisely do you mean when you say boundaries are only apparent?

What's the difference in your mind between a real and imaginary thing?

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28 minutes ago, Jannes said:

You also can’t prove it’s non imaginary. So it could be both. Why do you stick to the belief that reality is non imaginary? Because it keeps you sane. Seriously doubting the realness of reality is really painful. Your mind hates it. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be true. 

I didn't say the world is not imaginary only that there is no proof that it is imaginary. 

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@Questioner

2 hours ago, Questioner said:

Please provide some evidence that the world is imaginary and I will attempt to dispute every claim. If you can't prove that the world is imaginary then how can you call it so?

   Why are you begging us to provide proof to you that reality is imaginary? Why can't you validate it yourself?

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22 minutes ago, 5-D - L O V E said:

Truth > proof.
 

At best I can provide you with a counter example about why reality being imaginary cannot be proved nor disproven.

 

In this video, Carl Sagan demonstrates how unless a three dimensional being lifts the 2D flatlanders from flatland, they can never even conceive (let alone prove) the existence of the 3 third "up" axis.

Awakening is akin to this thought experiment. Unless you do the practice to awaken to any given facet of ultimate reality, it cannot be percieved through direct experience. It can happen by serindepity for some but that's a big stretch to even consider..

Same goes with god, it cannot be proven, nor disproven, it is completely "transparent" by design (for the ego atleast), and the transparency of god is proportional to the thickness of one's ego.

 

For a more elaborate explanation on matters that fall outside of provability watch Leo's video on the metaphysical implications of Gödel's incompleteness theorem.

I'm not denying the existence of a source (in fact I know I am the source of this response), but this isn't about the existence or nonexistence of a source but rather whether the world is real or imaginary.

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