Thoughts on what comes next...

[zurew]

49 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This planet will not run out of resources for a million years. There is no lack of resources.

If we are talking about maintaining or trying to continue with the constant economic growth, then this is not true.  Maybe if we had the knowledge to transform energy any way we like it instantly, then we can say that we won't run out of resources.

We are in the dark ages when it comes to energy using. We are "wasting" so much energy because when it transforms into certain states we can't do shit with it or we can't utilize it, because we don't have the knowledge or the tech for it.

But we are getting exponentially more effective at burning energy though. But thats not very good , when it comes to mainiting resources.

Even when we try to create energy sources, we probably burn more energy creating them, compared to how much energy they produce.

[Wilhelm44]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Mankind has been stupid for 10,000+ years. Hasn't stopped us yet.

This planet will not run out of resources for a million years. There is no lack of resources.

Stop worrying and go about your life.

@Leo Gura The difference is that only recently our technology has developed such that mankind's stupidity can have truly terrible consequences. 

[zurew]

53 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

The difference is that only recently our technology has developed such that mankind's stupidity can have truly terrible consequences. 

Exactly.

Also, there are so many different kind of global extinction factors that we can be aware of and if any from those become true, we can say goodbye for most humans.

• water scarcity,
• global war potential,
• dying of the ecosystem,
• AI takes over the world,
• soil degradation,
• species extinction
• deadly infectious diseases,
• biowarfare
• ocean acidification, coral die off
• Planetary natural disasters (Volcanoes, hurricanes, floods, droughts, earthquakes) 
• Distributed exponential technology (as times goes on its more and more easier for anyone to reach for really deadly weapons and tools)
• etc etc etc. 

This is not fear-mongering. This is about being realistic and being aware of global problems. Ignoring all these is somewhat part of the problem why these are really hard to solve.

Edited May 4, 2022 by zurew

[Bob Seeker]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This planet will not run out of resources for a million years. There is no lack of resources.

Your views on this are unclear. You share videos of Daniel Schamchtenberger and also say things like this. These seem to contradict each other. I would like to understand your views.

Also, what about price increases and large economic disruption?

Edited May 5, 2022 by Bob Seeker

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Bob Seeker said:

You share videos of Daniel Schamchtenberger and also say things like this.

Schmachtenberger is a smart guy. I like the way he thinks. But his whole job is sorta irrelevant because mankind is not going to kill itself and even if it is, Schmachtenberger's work will not prevent it.

[Wilhelm44]

5 hours ago, Bob Seeker said:

Your views on this are unclear. You share videos of Daniel Schamchtenberger and also say things like this. These seem to contradict each other. I would like to understand your views.

Also, what about price increases and large economic disruption?

Money will become worth less and less, so that people can wake up to the truth of what really matters. There is a deeper intelligence working in all of this. 

[zurew]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Schmachtenberger is a smart guy. I like the way he thinks. But his whole job is sorta irrelevant because mankind is not going to kill itself and even if it is, Schmachtenberger's work will not prevent it.

@Leo Gura I would be interested too, why you  are so optimistic about it. I know you know more about these catastrophic risks than we do, and still you are optimistic. Do you have reasoning for that or you have a deep intuition that tells you that most humans will survive?

Btw, i don't think either that humanity will cease to exist, but at the same time i think that there are a lot of possibilities for viping out hundrends of millions or a few billions of humans. Especially, if not just one, but more than one catastrophic risks are taking place at the same time.

Edited May 5, 2022 by zurew

[TK2021]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Schmachtenberger is a smart guy. I like the way he thinks. But his whole job is sorta irrelevant because mankind is not going to kill itself and even if it is, Schmachtenberger's work will not prevent it.

Yes, he is a smart guy, and if you don’t share his concern, I doubt you’re emotionally intelligent enough to understand and inhabit his POV yet. Mankind most likely will not go literally extinct, and Schmachtenberger is not fearmongering about that, as you know. Its more like if you have any emotional intelligence, compassion, love - it would be a lack of integrity not to do your best for all the “stupid” people you seem to have little compassion for. The intensity of suffering going on in the world today is hellish, and the existential risks unprecedented, so to just go about your life and be stoked because you’re killing it is pretty fucking psychopathic, and non-Godlike. Godlike compassion even gives a “stupid” guy shoving drugs up his ass in Vegas glimpses of Love. 

When you realize this and let this sink in, and don’t just get overwhelmed and dismissive and go about your life distracting yourself from that truth, everything changes.

Of course his work could be a little more down to earth, and I don’t doubt he is working on that. But then again, how do you think telling lost people in their early 20s they are God is gonna make things better? This just shows how you severely misunderstand the developmental models you promote.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, TK2021 said:

The intensity of suffering going on in the world today is hellish

No different than it's always been.

Schmachtenberger's approach is like giving a college lecture on the deck of the sinking Titanic. His heart is in the right place but it's not a realistic political solution. Be ware of idiot compassion.

[Kalki Avatar]

Its all nonsense until one toy rocket gets launched. 

[TK2021]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No different than it's always been.

Exactly. Well, not exactly, since there’s billions of more people suffering now. But that only reinforces the fact that a non-psychopathic life purpose ultimately ought to be to liberate people from suffering.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Schmachtenberger's approach is like giving a college lecture on the deck of the sinking Titanic.

I already said that his work needs to be more practical. However it seems he is working on some very practical stuff regarding the regulation of social media. Can't do it all. Yet considering your political takes when Russia invaded Ukraine was “boohoo call the wambulance” and “let’s try to understand Putins POV” - it doesn’t seem that you have better alternatives yet. Or perhaps I’m strawmanning you here, I don’t follow this forum too closely.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Be ware of idiot compassion.

At no point was I advocating for that, but it’s important to be aware of. But what’s even more important, is to not let that fear of being taken advantage of consume you and limit your love unnecessarily.

[Guest Nilsi]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No different than it's always been.

Schmachtenberger's approach is like giving a college lecture on the deck of the sinking Titanic. His heart is in the right place but it's not a realistic political solution. Be ware of idiot compassion.

Just for context, how deeply have you actually studied Schmachtenberger? The way I see it is he's doing a lot of the same things you are. Its quite obvious that he enjoys the work he does and doesn't do it out of some sense of obligation. To me he is a perfect example of healthy, well integrated Turquoise. He talks about epistemology, spirituality, psychedelics, mental well-being, peak performance and where humanity is headed and does so in a uniquely non-ideological way; his "philosophy"/"mysticism" strikes me as very similar to that of Ken Wilber. He is obviously an extremely developed and conscious being. Is it that he's not explicitly talking about God and awakening or where is this contempt coming from?

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Nilsi

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, TK2021 said:

 it doesn’t seem that you have better alternatives yet.

I'm not trying to save the world.

5 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Just for context, how deeply have you actually studied Schmachtenberger? The way I see it is he's doing a lot of the same things you are.

I'm not trying to save mankind from self-destruction.

Quote

Its quite obvious that he enjoys the work he does and doesn't do it out of some sense of obligation. To me he is a perfect example of healthy, well integrated Turquoise.

Yes, and good for him. I'm just saying it won't save the world.

If he enjoys what he does, no problem.

Quote

He talks about epistemology, spirituality, psychedelics, mental well-being, peak performance and where humanity is headed and does so in a uniquely non-ideological way; his "philosophy"/"mysticism" strikes me as very similar to that of Ken Wilber.

Yes, exactly. And I don't think Ken Wilber's work is gonna save the world either.

Quote

He is obviously an extremely developed and conscious being. Is it that he's not explicitly talking about God and awakening or where is this contempt coming from?

I don't have contempt for him. I admire his work. I just said it won't save the world and it is not politically practical.

You can talk endlessly about Game B, but our world runs on Game A, and it will run that way for the next 100 years at least.

My point here is not contempt but to add some realism to the discussion. It's easy to get seduced and deluded into this Wilberian futurism where the whole world wakes up to Tier 2. That's not going to happen.

[Raptorsin7]

A mass awakening is very possible. All it would take is a wise teacher who was effective at sharing their wisdom and understanding with others. 

Imagine talking to someone and they have sufficient knowledge to give you a psychidelic high with simple practices. It's possible, people are only getting wiser. Think about how much wiser you are now than you were a few years ago.

[zurew]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can talk endlessly about Game B, but our world runs on Game A, and it will run that way for the next 100 years at least.

If you are talking about a 100% Game B world then i would agree, But this game A world will eat itself up faster than 100 years.

There will still be some game A elements in the future, however a lot of game A system will start to collapse. Why do i say that?

This level of game A world will self terminate, i suspect in the next 30-35-40 years. (

• we are running out of oil and other natural resources,
• we are completely destorying oceans,
• we are destroying animal life and the ecosystem,
• the nutritional value of our food is constantly declining - so we need even more food to get the same nutrients as we get from the past [we need about 9 oranges to get the same amount of nutritients as we got from the mid 20st century]
• water scarcity

All those that i mention above are because of systemic problems. So they can only be solved by systemic  changes. So drastical system changes are required to solve all those above. And all those above need to be solved for humans to survive further. Most of those i mention need to be solved under 50 years because the damage is so high already.

So some level of transitioning will take place, and it doesn't matter if the world is ready for it or if people want it or not. It will be necessary for surivial and we know that survival is the biggest motivational factor.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

If you are talking about a 100% Game B world then i would agree, But this game A world will eat itself up faster than 100 years.

There will still be some game A elements in the future, however a lot of game A system will start to collapse. Why do i say that?

This level of game A world will self terminate, i suspect in the next 30-35-40 years. (

Way too idealistic.

1 hour ago, zurew said:

• we are running out of oil and other natural resources,

No we aren't and by the time we run out of oil we will have better energy sources.

Energy on this planet is practically infinite.

1 hour ago, zurew said:

• we are completely destorying oceans,

Meh, they can be cleaned and resorted.

1 hour ago, zurew said:

• we are destroying animal life and the ecosystem,

A bit, but it can be resorted.

1 hour ago, zurew said:

• the nutritional value of our food is constantly declining - so we need even more food to get the same nutrients as we get from the past [we need about 9 oranges to get the same amount of nutritients as we got from the mid 20st century]

That's easy to solve.

1 hour ago, zurew said:

• water scarcity

The Earth basically has infinite water.

[puporing]

Well it was nice to see all the care-i-boos gathering. 

[Harikrishnan]

@Leo Gura So Sadhguru in actuality wanted to do something with his time, so took up save soil initiative. Do you think there is no need for initiatives like this? 

Isnt climate change a thing? Or do u think it will be fine

 

 

[Guest Nilsi]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm not trying to save the world.

I'm not trying to save mankind from self-destruction.

Yes, and good for him. I'm just saying it won't save the world.

If he enjoys what he does, no problem.

Yes, exactly. And I don't think Ken Wilber's work is gonna save the world either.

I don't have contempt for him. I admire his work. I just said it won't save the world and it is not politically practical.

You can talk endlessly about Game B, but our world runs on Game A, and it will run that way for the next 100 years at least.

My point here is not contempt but to add some realism to the discussion. It's easy to get seduced and deluded into this Wilberian futurism where the whole world wakes up to Tier 2. That's not going to happen.

Thank you for your thoughtful answer  I think you and Schmachtenberger are more similar than you realize. He has clearly stated that the way to get to Game B ist through winning Game A; he has talked about the necessity to develop or train some kind of Alexander The Great type character; he has talked about Nietzsche. I'm just saying, I think there is a lot of common ground and things to be learned from one another in regards to your respective works.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Nilsi

[flyingguitarist]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't have contempt for him. I admire his work. I just said it won't save the world and it is not politically practical..

@Leo Gura in your mind , what kind of approaches would be feasible &  politically practical ones with the same intent as these guys(Daniel , Ken wilber , GameB members etc..)  

Edited May 6, 2022 by flyingguitarist