Should i just settle for average/below average girls? Confused, need advice

[something_else]

14 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Dude i am not talking about party guys. Believe it or not most party guys i know do not even approach girls. They just have fun with the other 10 people they go with and that's it. Most guys are not party guys. The number of girls i know is arguably the highest out of all my guy friends and higher than a lot of guys i know so it is not just that. Yes, i did not approach 1000 girls but almost nobody does and they still get some result once in a while. I do not. That is what i am saying. I am not complaining why i am not banging 10s every 2 weeks, i am complaining why i have not managed to get a girl to geniounly want to date me despite having talked to probably more girls than those guys that had 1-2 girlfriends during their life so far.

Well somehow those dudes are getting girlfriends. I highly doubt they’re doing that without talking to any girls

A lot of extroverted dudes don’t need to frame it as approaching because they go out with friends and naturally bring new people into the conversation, many times girls. It’s not really approaching for them, it’s just all very natural

If they go out and have fun with their group of friends there will be lots of natural socialising and intermingling of groups where they get tons of exposure to girls

But if this doesn’t come naturally then you’ve got to be a bit more direct and start approaching rather than just waiting for things to happen to you

Most of the framing in your posts very much comes across as “I want a girlfriend without having to go and talk to girls”

That is often what it feels like you want when I read your posts

90% of relationships start with the guy approaching the girl in some flirty way, it’s unavoidable. If you’re introverted you have to learn this skill

Also no one is telling you to go and do a thousand approaches. Even just like meeting 5 new girls a week would be better than sitting waiting for things to happen to you. It’s scary, but it’s not as bad as it seems. Just find one or two ways you can increase your exposure to girls and go from there

Even if you have everything else in your life together, which it sounds like you do, that doesn’t mean you automatically deserve a GF with zero extra effort. You still need to do a bit of work for it, but it’s not that much work. Well, it’s not that much work if you get lots of exposure to girls

[Karmadhi]

@something_else I do talk to girls whenever i can. It is not true that i do not as you claim. How do you think i even get dates? Think about it!

I said it again, i know more girls than probably most guys around me. So it is not just a "you do not talk to girls issue". It used to be like that until i started talking to them and asking them out and got like 5 dates in 2 months which did not go anywhere. I have 2 of them written out above in details.

[something_else]

That’s fair enough. But keep that pace up at the very least. I only thought that way because you couldn’t really give an exact number or estimate to how many girls you meet a week, but you should be meeting enough girls weekly that you can at least put a rough number on it

The more new girls you talk to the better your dates go. I used to be very invested in dates but now idgaf because I know if I want to meet girls I can meet 20 every weekend. It lets you have more fun in dates instead of feeling like they’re a job interview 

Also knowing lots of girls doesn’t really count for that much. I’m assuming most of these girls are friends. Once that frame is set it’s tough to undo. It’s less about knowing lots of girls and more about your ability to meet new girls whenever you feel like it

[Leo Gura]

18 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Basically the issue is that i get ruthlessly punished for small mistakes i make. It is not that i am perfect, it is just that a girl is harsher to me than she would be normally. I will write some examples:

1. A girl ghosted me (kinda, did not want to meet me again), just because i did not kiss her on the first date. Now this is obviously a mistake but i still flirted with her, touched her hand a lot, we sat next to each other, i teased etc. I know plenty of guys that did not kiss on the first date and still managed to get the girl as long as they were not just platonic. Meanwhile i did not get a second date.

2. Another girl i actually managed to make out with on the first date, touched her, flirted a bit, teased a lot, talked for quite some time but she made some retarted shit tests and in her mind i failed them and that was enough for her to cast me out. Example: I saw on her phone that the train she would take to go to her city (she lives in a close town) was on platform 4 when we were on the bar. When we are at the train station going to the platform she asks me if it is platform 3. I tell her: "No, it is platform 4". She says: "No, it is platform 3". I repeat, "it is platform 4, i remember well do not worry". Then she says: "I have it on my phone, it is platform 3, i can see it on my phone". Then i am like: "Fine, if it is on your phone it is platform 3". She gets bit frustrated and goes like : "You should be more confident in your opinion, im trying to make you more confident". 

She says this legit 20 mins after i go in and kiss her with her not giving me any super clear obvious signs, if this is not confident i do not know what is. She accepted my kiss and then kissed me herself. After the first date she friendzoned me harshly. So out of like 3 hour date i "slip up" once even though the overall was good and that is enough for her to frienzone me. The proof that the rest was good was the fact that she actually accepted my kiss and even kissed me back towards the very end. The next big thing that happened on that date after the kiss was this story with the train platform. So i probably got friendzoned because she did not think i was "confident" enough for her just because of this 1 slip. Quite ruthless imo.

These are 2 examples out of many. 

Usually for a first date i go for a drink at a nearby bar/loungue place near the center. Afterwards usually for a walk (the center is quite pretty) and while walking we might get a waffle or something. I am not advanced yet to lead the date to my place but that is on the works. I tend to prefer to fuck on a second date (if i actually would get one) then on the first date (unless i am meeting a girl from tinder or something).

During the date, well it depends. General rule is that i make it positive, fun, playful. Also i try to build some rapport/comfort with the girl and find out what she likes, her dreams, what is into etc. I use this also as a way of screening the girl to see if she would be a good fit. After a while i try to slowly escalate with the girl, at first by touching her hand and if she is receptive slowly escalate to the point where i can kiss her. So far escalations have been smooth, never had issues with them nor been rejected a kiss. I do not do heavy makeouts unless i know i can fuck her but i definetly kiss her.

That's just some bad luck. Keep doing what you're doing and you will get great results.

You are giving up too soon. You must be more persistent and have more patience with the entire process. Sometimes I would go out for months and not get laid just because of bad luck. Then I would get a model. Dry spells happen in this game.

If you are getting dates you so close to closing. Don't quit now. You need to reframe every date as a success, even if she never calls you back. This is an inner game issue. You're not framing this properly in your own mind.

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's just some bad luck. Keep doing what you're doing and you will get great results.

You are giving up too soon. You must be more persistent and have more patience with the entire process. Sometimes I would go out for months and not get laid just because of bad luck. Then I would get a model. Dry spells happen in this game.

If you are getting dates you so close to closing. Don't quit now. You need to reframe every date as a success, even if she never calls you back. This is an inner game issue. You're not framing this properly in your own mind.

Yes i agree. I have to managed to reach a point where i can confidently escalate and go for a make out with a girl on a first date, something that seemed alien to me 6 months ago. However, i am really off-putted by the harshness i get from girls regarding every mistake i make. You think if i go out on other dates they will be less harsh as long as my performance is around this level?

Edited March 27, 2022 by Karmadhi

[Razard86]

11 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Yes i agree. I have to managed to reach a point where i can confidently escalate and go for a make out with a girl on a first date, something that seemed alien to me 6 months ago. However, i am really off-putted by the harshness i get from girls regarding every mistake i make. You think if i go out on other dates they will be less harsh as long as my performance is around this level?

........Why do you care so much about making mistakes? Do you REALLY think women friendzone guys and cut them off because of mistakes? I will give you a hint since it doesn't seem you have noticed this. Women base all interactions with men on "VIBE." It has NOTHING to do with MISTAKES (unless the women has emotional issues and if that's the case be thankful it didn't work out) women are naturally more INTUITIVE than us men on average. Women can FEEL a man's inner thoughts, and emotions. Women are more sensitive than us men to stimuli. They read body language, tone of voice, emotion, and interpret that information in the form of an emotion. Based on that woman's maturity level, her culture, and image of what a man should be she will compare you to that. Stop thinking its mistakes, all a woman cares about is the VIBE she is getting from you. The only real mistakes I have ever seen throw a woman off is lack of knowing what to do sexually. Outside of that, if the VIBE is good SHE IS GOOD. 

[Karmadhi]

@Razard86 My vibe is chill and fun so there is nothing i can think of in terms of vibe that could be an issue.

[hoodrow trillson]

15 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

........Why do you care so much about making mistakes? Do you REALLY think women friendzone guys and cut them off because of mistakes? I will give you a hint since it doesn't seem you have noticed this. Women base all interactions with men on "VIBE." It has NOTHING to do with MISTAKES (unless the women has emotional issues and if that's the case be thankful it didn't work out) women are naturally more INTUITIVE than us men on average. Women can FEEL a man's inner thoughts, and emotions. Women are more sensitive than us men to stimuli. They read body language, tone of voice, emotion, and interpret that information in the form of an emotion. Based on that woman's maturity level, her culture, and image of what a man should be she will compare you to that. Stop thinking its mistakes, all a woman cares about is the VIBE she is getting from you. The only real mistakes I have ever seen throw a woman off is lack of knowing what to do sexually. Outside of that, if the VIBE is good SHE IS GOOD. 

This.  This right here.

Women are like 15 years ahead of men in terms of social skills and being sensitive to the vibe (ugh I hate that word but it's true).  They can also sense if you're a fucking weirdo.  It's like they're university graduates with highest honors and we've just entered high school.  This doesn't reach parity until the man is older and more experienced--no matter how much you think you're good at it.

The only thing from my experience that short circuits all of this and bypasses it all, is having no ego.  

[Space]

8 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Yes i agree. I have to managed to reach a point where i can confidently escalate and go for a make out with a girl on a first date, something that seemed alien to me 6 months ago. However, i am really off-putted by the harshness i get from girls regarding every mistake i make. You think if i go out on other dates they will be less harsh as long as my performance is around this level?

You got any useful tips/thoughts about improving with escalation on dates? I've only just started physically escalating on dates recently, with not much success. Still trying to shake off my old nice-guy habits and patterns. I'm noticing there's a lot of subtle shame and embarrassment when I try to escalate physically.

[integral]

Did you figure out what you're doing wrong yet?

[Tudo]

16 hours ago, Razard86 said:

........Why do you care so much about making mistakes? Do you REALLY think women friendzone guys and cut them off because of mistakes? I will give you a hint since it doesn't seem you have noticed this. Women base all interactions with men on "VIBE." It has NOTHING to do with MISTAKES (unless the women has emotional issues and if that's the case be thankful it didn't work out) women are naturally more INTUITIVE than us men on average. Women can FEEL a man's inner thoughts, and emotions. Women are more sensitive than us men to stimuli. They read body language, tone of voice, emotion, and interpret that information in the form of an emotion. Based on that woman's maturity level, her culture, and image of what a man should be she will compare you to that. Stop thinking its mistakes, all a woman cares about is the VIBE she is getting from you. The only real mistakes I have ever seen throw a woman off is lack of knowing what to do sexually. Outside of that, if the VIBE is good SHE IS GOOD. 

Yes, exacly. The fact that he is so afraid of making mistakes tells alot about his vibe around girls. 

[Karmadhi]

47 minutes ago, Tudo said:

Yes, exacly. The fact that he is so afraid of making mistakes tells alot about his vibe around girls

Actually during the interaction itself i do not think at all about "making mistakes" stuff. I am  lost on the moment, it is AFTER the date that i reflect and say ok maybe i made this this mistake. 

[SonataAllegro]

2 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Actually during the interaction itself i do not think at all about "making mistakes" stuff. I am  lost on the moment, it is AFTER the date that i reflect and say ok maybe i made this this mistake. 

Still, your mindset needs to be "i don't care what little tests she throws at me, i won't derive my self worth from her approval"

[Karmadhi]

8 hours ago, Space said:

You got any useful tips/thoughts about improving with escalation on dates? I've only just started physically escalating on dates recently, with not much success. Still trying to shake off my old nice-guy habits and patterns. I'm noticing there's a lot of subtle shame and embarrassment when I try to escalate physically

Be playful, make jokes and make the whole interaction non-serious. Try to sexualize a bit (not a lot). These 2 should be before starting to escalate. Afterwards start with the hand (it is crucial to sit somewhat within hand reach of her), find some dumb excuse to play with her hand (or she with yours). Build some intimacy physically with the hand. Then you can touch a bit her shoulder also, hug her a bit etc. Super depends but the hand i think matters a lot (idk why). Then when the girl is laughing and in a good mood you look her in the eye for 2 seconds with a smirk and lean in and kiss her. No double guessing. For me it was SCARY AF the first time but now getting the hang of it. Tbh i have never been rejected a kiss or physical touch in general so i do not know what to do in that case.

[Karmadhi]

2 minutes ago, SonataAllegro said:

Still, your mindset needs to be "i don't care what little tests she throws at me, i won't derive my self worth from her approval"

It is like that man. However when your ghosted/friendzoned after and do not know why you start assuming it is based on that. Everything i said was an assumption. Plus you really think EVERY guy that goes on a date is super confident about it? You are telling me how experienced guys date however most guys are not that. Yet still they get results.

I noticed that when a girl really likes a guy she will tolerate a lot of shit from him on a date. She likes him after all. Usually it is because they find the guy good looking. I am not good looking therefore i get hard mode treatment.

[SonataAllegro]

14 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

It is like that man. However when your ghosted/friendzoned after and do not know why you start assuming it is based on that. Everything i said was an assumption. Plus you really think EVERY guy that goes on a date is super confident about it? You are telling me how experienced guys date however most guys are not that. Yet still they get results.

I noticed that when a girl really likes a guy she will tolerate a lot of shit from him on a date. She likes him after all. Usually it is because they find the guy good looking. I am not good looking therefore i get hard mode treatment.

Maybe this is a situation where you have to realize you did nothing wrong and that you don't really like her because she seemed to be judging and testing you the whole time, and you don't appreciate that. Don't forget you gotta like her too.

[Karmadhi]

31 minutes ago, SonataAllegro said:

Maybe this is a situation where you have to realize you did nothing wrong and that you don't really like her because she seemed to be judging and testing you the whole time, and you don't appreciate that. Don't forget you gotta like her too.

I think usually they are not that into me but i manage to get them with my personality, but because my looks are not good enough they cross me out with 1 mistake because they are not into me. Or is this bs?

[SonataAllegro]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

I think usually they are not that into me but i manage to get them with my personality, but because my looks are not good enough they cross me out with 1 mistake because they are not into me. Or is this bs?

What I’m hearing: “I manage to get them with my personality, but because I think my looks are not good enough, I start thinking they’re not into me and I shut down the outgoing parts of my personality and focus on saying the right thing to make up for my looks”