Leo featured in suicide cult article

[Tim R]

12 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

"using different kind of epistemic foundations"

Haha I love that one? what a lovely post-modern way of talking. 

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

@Inliytened1 I guess we can add "cleared it all up" to the list of phrases you don't understand the meaning of - wow, this list is getting quite long! ?

Honestly mate, your lack of self awareness is pretty amazing. Your contribution to this thread has been awful, switching between straw man arguments, cringe inducing arrogance, a complete lack of logic or reasoning, misunderstanding of basic vocabulary, emotional immaturity, and just being an outright bully by abusing your moderator status and banning people. You have some serious work to do pal, and the fact that you act like this as an outcome of your much vaunted "awakening" really raises some red flags. 

REALITY CHECK - you didn't clear anything up, you got cleaned up, and the atmosphere in this thread would have been A LOT "clearer" if you had kept your petty immature ego out of it ?

 

So is this your new criticism because the healing stuff just didn't work out?  If thats the case I'm OK with it!  Do I have work to do?  Sure...we all do.  But I think we broke it down here that what you call delusional is in fact spirituality.  Whether you like that fact or not just really doesn't matter to me.

[zurew]

32 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

Here I would disagree. While fully accepting that one can have different epistemic foundations, I think it is evident that Leo in the video I reference is actually making claims about things that will play out within (for want of a better term) material reality, so the paradigm he is straddling there is blatantly clear. Now while his head might have been somewhere else, the claims are firmly rooted in this paradigm.

My argument was not about defending Leo's claim, my argument wanted to be about, that 'everything in the mind'. Even if i don't use awakening kind of arguments, i can say that if i use idealism as a foundation, then from that position it can be easily argued why every aillments is in the mind. I wanted to target that, i didn't want to defend Leo's claim, because, frankly i don't know if it is true or not.

 

36 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

As previously highlighted in this thread he is not talking in solipsistic metaphor, but claiming physical ability over human disease and ailments - and he (Leo) himself has agreed that he was overstepping the mark by making such claims, so I really don't think there is much else to debate in regards to this point.

The "debate" is not much about defending his claim on my part, its more about the fact, that neither me neither you know if such a thing that 'you can cure all ailments' is possible or not. Or that it is possible to do powerful things. The intellectually honest position is , that we don't know, now you can call bullshit on it, and you can say that it is not true, and that it is impossible, but that will stay merely an opinion not a fact. It does not mean that Leo was right about it, or that you are right about it, it means that from my and your pov , we don't really know. So i am arguing for more open-mindedness here, i am not defending Leo's position.

 

Btw, correct me if i wrong, but i think that you have more problem with not the claim itself, but the consequences that it can have on other people ,when they hear such a message.

43 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

I think its also worth highlighting a double standard here around such paradigms, and the Connor Murphy phone call debacle is a perfect example. Clearly Connor was making similar OBJECTIVE claims about what he could do with material reality - again, the paradigm that was "on the table" here was absolutely evident, and Leo was ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to state that Connors claims were delusional.

I would hold Leo to that same standard, i am holding you right now.The standard is, that there are x number of things that you don't know about, and making claims about things or attacking things that you don't know , is problematic in my opinion. But i understood why Leo did what he did there, and i understand (or assume) why you do this right now. You want to protect people from irresponsible messages, that you think is bullshit, and you don't want them to hurt themselves, or to be in a position where they can harm others.(again i am assuming a lot here, feel free to correct)

[Jahmaine]

This is what it looks like to me when I read some of the convos here.

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

So is this your new criticism because the healing stuff just didn't work out? 

Well its not new criticism is it mate? I have been consistent in calling out your glaring intellectual/emotional/irrational flaws and shitty behaviour throughout this ENTIRE THREAD, so if that is what you mean by "new" then sure! ?‍♂️

***adds "new" to the list of words @Inliytened1 does not understand***

I'm not sure what you are referring to in regard to "the healing stuff not working out". As far as I can see I have offered reasonable arguments to all points that have been raised, and while I admit I am slightly biased here - I think its fairly obvious that I owned you. Still if there is some outstanding topic you would like me to address then feel free to highlight it, although I must admit that I am growing a bit weary of your clumsy jabberings and lack of integrity, so I would prefer to deal with those who are more reasonable and intellectually capable - I hope you understand.

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Do I have work to do?

You seriously do, and honestly you have no business being a moderator while you are doing it. Your behaviour is appalling and if I was Leo I would be embarrassed by your display here. In my opinion there is no place for self aggrandizing bullies in the spiritual space, let alone moderating them.  

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

But I think we broke it down here that what you call delusional is in fact spirituality.  

Literally nowhere did we break it down to that, and I don't think you even know what spirituality means (along with most other words in the English vocabulary). I mean can you link me to where this particular strand of the conversation happened? That's a rhetorical question btw because I know that you cannot ?

I hate to take this kind of position and fully appreciate it looks bad or snobby, but you are not capable of keeping up with me on any level, and explaining basic things to you is becoming tedious. Please leave it to your more rational peers to have the big discussions, which will give you additional time to masturbate over how awakened you are(nt).

Edited March 10, 2022 by AdeptusPsychonautica

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Jahmaine said:

This is what it looks like to me when I read some of the convos here.

That's pretty funny.  Trump meditating would be a sight to see.  But spirituality isn't about transcending the ego.  That is just called humility.  And I know a lot of us here can use. a dose of that - including you.

[zurew]

 

9 minutes ago, Jahmaine said:

I read it with Trump's voice, it's pretty funny 

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

Well its not new criticism is it mate? I have been consistent in calling out your glaring intellectual/emotional/irrational flaws and shitty behaviour throughout this entire thread, so if that is what you mean be "new" then sure!       

***adds "new" to the list of words @Inliytened1 does not understand***

I'm not sure what you are referring to in regard to "the healing stuff not working out". As far as I can see I have offered reasonable arguments to all points that have been raised, and while I admit I am slightly biased here - I think its fairly obvious that I owned you. Still if there is some outstanding topic you would like me to address then feel free to highlight it, although I must admit that I am growing a bit weary of your clumsy jabberings and lack of integrity, so I would prefer to deal with those who are more reasonable intellectually capable - I hope you understand.

You seriously do, and honestly you have no business being a moderator while you are doing it. Your behaviour is appalling and if I was Leo I would be embarrassed by your display here. In my opinion there is no place for self aggrandizing bullies in the spiritual space, let alone moderating them.  

Literally nowhere did we break it down to that, and I don't think you even know what spirituality means (along with most other words in the English vocabulary). I mean can you link me to where this particular strand of the conversation happened? That's a rhetorical question btw because I know that you cannot ?

I hate to take this kind of position and fully appreciate it looks bad or snobby, but you are not capable of keeping up with me on any level, and explaining basic things to you is becoming tedious. Please leave it to your more rational peers to have the mature dialogue, which will give you additional time to masturbate over how awakened you are(nt).

Yeah..it's kinda making you look snobby at this point

Again - i guess we need to rehash.  Leo did not claim he was able to cure all ailments.  He claimed he discovered that it is possible in a state of God Consciousness.  Miracles are possible in these states of consciousness. 

[Jahmaine]

@Inliytened1 regardless of the conversation happening here, you do seem quite pedantic. 
If you had to self analyse, gun to your head, which spiral dynamic stage would you say you inhabit the most?

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yeah..it's kinda making you look snobby at this point

Again - i guess we need to rehash.  Leo did not claim he was able to cure all ailments.  He claimed he discovered that it is possible in a state of God Consciousness.  Miracles are possible in these states of consciousness. 

15 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

 

What I understood leo said, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that from the conscience of God you could do what you want, but that is exactly what you are doing. that is, if you have cancer it is because from the conscience of God, it is what you want, so when you access that conscience, you realize that you do not want to cure your cancer

Edited March 10, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Jahmaine said:

@Inliytened1 regardless of the conversation happening here, you do seem quite pedantic. 
If you had to self analyse, gun to your head, which spiral dynamic stage would you say you inhabit the most?

Spiral dynamics is just a model.  

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What I understood leo said, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that from the conscience of God you could do what you want, but that was exactly what you are doing. that is, if you have cancer it is because from the conscience of God, it is what you want, so when you access that conscience, you realize that you do not want to cure your cancer

Yes. At the highest levels of Consciousness there are no ailments.  You awaken from the dream 

[Jahmaine]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Spiral dynamics is just a model.  

The question I asked was “which stage do you think you inhabit the most?”  If you had to self analyse, gun to your head. 
 

i didn’t ask what it was.

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

Yeah..it's kinda making you look snobby at this point

Again - i guess we need to rehash.  Leo did not claim he was able to cure all ailments.  He claimed he discovered that it is possible in a state of God Consciousness.  Miracles are possible in these states of consciousness. 

I will happily take a self inflicted snobby, over being an immature halfwit bully ?

Here is a more accurate rehash for you: Leo absolutely made objective claims, the evidence for that is clear, and he himself admits he misspoke in making such claims, he also correctly labels other people making similar claims as "delusional". Nowhere has he made any clarifying statement that he was speaking exclusively to a certain state, so since you obviously do not speak on his behalf then we can disregard any attempts from you to do so. 

You are welcome!

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Jahmaine said:

The question I asked was “which stage do you think you inhabit the most?”  If you had to self analyse, gun to your head. 
 

i didn’t ask what it was.

I'm a blend of stages when I look at the model.

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes. At the highest levels of Consciousness there are no ailments.  You awaken from the dream 

then, there are no miracles, or everything is a miracle. what we call a miracle of healing is that you, as an ego, change the will of god, since the will of god is what it is. but that is not possible since if you do it, it is God's will that you do it, etc.

therefore, if you have cancer, you may or may not be cured. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Jahmaine]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

I'm a blend of stages when I look at the model.

If you had to pick ONE, that you inhabit the most, we are all a blend.

it’s not that deep, if you don’t want to answer then don’t and just say you’d rather not. No one’s judging you, just curious at your own personal analysis.

[mandyjw]

18 hours ago, zurew said:

It's flat out wrong only,if you are looking at it from your paradigm.

You are using a different kind of epistemic foundation compare to most of the users on the forum, and thats all okay. However, your last sentence is an objective sentence, that "it is just flat out wrong", now speaking from a materialistic paradigm it could be true. It all depends on, in what structure you want to place that statement. Basically, all your critisism can be boiled down to this problem, that you and Leo are using different kind of epistemic foundations, and your criticism is only true and valid within your paradigm, Leo's claims will be true if you are using his foundations (or it can only be then realised). So for your critisisms to be objectively true, as you want it, you have to assume, that your worldview is objectively correct, and you can just assume that whole foundation(that you use) before you want to make a claim or a criticism.

Now, we can start to argue whose foundation is correct and why, but i think what i said above, must be understood first.

The wrong "foundation" or house build upon the sand is that there are separate people and that the mind as imagined to be possessed by a separate person can possibly be a foundation for anything whatsoever. This is true possession, believing that one can posses knowledge. They are actually, possessed by that belief that they a separate self can posses. It only seems to be a foundation but it isn't. 

Once you stop worshipping knowledge and being owned by thought, you stop worshipping people you think posses knowledge. Or demeaning or belittling them for not possessing it for that matter. Because there aren't any, and no one possesses anything, no one actually knows anything. 

 

 

[Inliytened1]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

then, there are no miracles, or everything is a miracle. what we call a miracle of healing is that you, as an ego, change the will of god, since the will of god is what it is. but that is not possible since if you do it, it is God's will that you do it, etc.

therefore, if you have cancer, you may or may not be cured. 

Yes when you do access these levels of consciousness you realize nothing needs to be changed.  Yet at the same time it can be possible to change but that too would be your Will as God.  This sounds outlandish to a rationalist of course.  And of course I am not saying I can heal or anything like that.  But you are God dreaming up this dream and thus you have the ability to manipulate it as God - not as the ego.  

[Inliytened1]

18 minutes ago, Jahmaine said:

If you had to pick ONE, that you inhabit the most, we are all a blend.

it’s not that deep, if you don’t want to answer then don’t and just say you’d rather not. No one’s judging you, just curious at your own personal analysis.

Hmm that's a really good question.  I think day to day I'm pretty orange.