Using Psychedelics For Self Actualization

[Dhana Choko]

Has you real, tangible life gotten better after the use of these drugs?

[Giorgia Andriani]

Hi Leo! Would you ever try Ayahuasca? I'd really love to.

This is one of the things I want to do in my life but I don' know yet what's holding me back! 

[Emily]

Intriguing subject. I don't have an answer as I've not taken any drugs for years but I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's had any experience with ayahuasca. I read this pretty interesting article a while back http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-18202/why-i-quit-my-job-after-i-tried-ayahuasca-in-peru.html

Must say though, the thought of using some sort of chemical substance to become enlightened feels a bit like cheating to me, although I'll keep an open mind!

[ayokolomo]

I believe it was a podcast with Ram Dass and Duncan Trussell where they said large doses of lsd or psylocybin mushrooms were like an express elevator to enlightenment.  But you couldnt get off you could only gaze at the party.

[David1]

 

 

[Emerald]

7 hours ago, jordanhandrew said:

Hi I'm curious to see what people think of the enlightenment "process" through drugs that effect your psyche like cannabis, mushrooms, LSD 25 and DMT. I'm am aware that most drugs are used for stimulation, friction, or ("happiness"\excitement), and are illegal and can cause health problems. What if they could be used to give your enlightenment a boost? Ive experimented with all the drugs that i have listed and have had profound spontaneous realizations with almost all of them. I wouldn't consider it enlightenment because the feeling of contentment dissolves as i go sober, but I still carry some of the profound realizations( which have been very beneficial in my enlightenment work) to this day. I expect this topic to be shunned fairly fast, so please be opened minded. I'm not looking for an excuse to justify harsh drug use or even regulatory use. I just feel that these drugs are more than just obstacles in the enlightenment process and would love to hear what this community thinks about it.

@jordanhandrew @Emily 

The problem with spiritual drug use is that it is a temporary expansion of consciousness at best. The results aren't permanent. Six years ago, when I was in college, I tried Ayahuasca twice. Both times, I completely transcended my ego, and it was the most beautiful feeling I've ever had. I was whole again. So, I've had a taste of enlightenment. But the only value it now conveys to me is that it enables me to pursue enlightenment work without needing that much faith. I know there is a destination to the long journey, so I'm more likely to take it.

That said, I made many unwise decisions after the experience ended because I tried to abstractly apply the insights I received from the higher state of consciousness from a low-consciousness frame of mind, thinking that it would yield good results. For the most part, it did the opposite. Paradoxes will get you every time. My recommendation is to avoid spiritual drug use, because I don't want people making the same mistakes as I did. That said, if it's important to you, be sure to do tons of research and preparation; and remind yourself that an insight just becomes more knowledge, if it isn't directly connected to higher consciousness. Wisdom is like a river; it's alive and ever-changing. So, a wise decision now, is a foolish decision tomorrow. 

[MaxBlank]

@Jared Drugs have been with Man since the beginning of Civilization. While my experience with things has been interesting [to put it mildly], I have found drugs incompatible with my enduring path.

I have listened to folks like Terrence McKenna, and considered their positions; I just find myself doing something different. I don't feel as if I need the assistance of any drugs. All legalities and morality aside, the choice to do drugs for any reason is a personal decision.

If you are looking for advice from a variety of people with experience, my suggestion is to consider what you ultimately want for yourself. Can you ONLY get there with the help of drugs? What other help might be beneficial? Considering these questions could help. If you do decide to go with a drug, please take the utmost care in doing so.

 

I am not through yet, Jared. There are all kinds of people that make up this world. Some will take substances and have a wonderful time, some will burn the house down trying, and some will very much not like what comes of it, and some will not return from even a single trip. Think about it.

[Psychonaut]

Everyone is different, everyone reacts different to drugs, situations and external stimuluses. That is what psychedelics are, stimulants for the mind that can provide experiences that feel like they are out of this world. For me psychedelics are similiar to taking a trip to a new town, a new city etc. You see something new while still being able to stay in your comfort zone at home. For me this gives value to psychedelics. I think you have to believe that psychedelics can provide you something for them to give you anything. Otherwise taking them will just harden your believe that drugs are bad and useless.

I have tripped 4 times on LSD with a good friend of mine. I feel I have gained a LOT more from it than he has. This saddens me a bit, but shows me that psychedelics aren't for everyone.

 

Let's give you a quick rundown of my 4 experiences:

1. time: 300ug LSD (not recommended for 1st time)

This was a 24h rollercoaster, up down. I had to face almost all the issues I have. I couldn't run away. They were there and verrrry real. I thought about many things and discussed lots of stuff with my friend. It was generally a very positive experience and a turning point in my journey.

What I learned:

- To ask questions.

- That my thoughts produce emotions.

- That I can control the direction of my thoughts and by that I can also control the emotions I feel.

What I changed after that:

- I started to filter my emotions into good and bad and suppressed the bad ones. This took tremendous amounts of energy. I had a watchdog in place that was similiar to out of control police killing of all negative thoughts. More on why this approach didn't work later.

 

2. time: 75ug LSD

This one was kind of useless. I still had an overcontrolling mind, was absent and didn't let go. Showed that my approach to controlling all my thoughts was flawed and I had to let go and not overcontrol my mind.

 

...

Some time between my 2nd and 3rd trip I found Leo's channel. I was especially interested in meditation and tried to figure out what it was about and if it would be useful for me.

 

3. time 200ug LSD

This was after a long travel, I was exhausted and tired. I will never take LSD in such a state again ever. In the first half of the trip I felt  really dead, no life, no energy. I have never felt so dead ever before. I didn't have suicidal thoughts, but I just felt like this trip was absolutely pointless. I had no weed either and my friend had a similiar experience. In the second part (the afterglow) of the trip I got an energy boost and thought about things that have bothered me for quite some time. I thought about going vegeterian and deleting my porn collection that I have spend hundreds of hours on collecting.

Changes I made after that:

- following day I started my daily meditation habit

- deleted my porn

- a week later I went vegetarian

 

4. time 200ug LSD + 60mg 2C-B (my tolerance is very high ;-))

I had the time of my life, I threw in the 2cb just for fun. I had followed through with my daily meditation and meditated before starting my trip. I also had bought lots and lots of fruit. Raspberries, blueberries, 2 kinds of grapes and oranges to enjoy on the trip. I was at peace during the whole duration of the trip. I had zero negative thoughts and no aggression for the first time on a trip. I was insanely happy, enjoyed my fruits to the fullest. This was not the kind of artificial happyness that other drugs provide, this felt real. Something that I created by making all the changes I made in my life because of the previous experiences.

Changes I made after this:

- 2 days later I started #nofap

 

Tldr:

I gained a lot from my experiences in a short time span of about 6 months. Psychedelics showed me the things I had to change and I changed them. Through good input from Leo's videos I changed lots of important things that affected my every day life in a positive way. Psychedelics showed me a slightly higher level of happyness/consciousness that I tried to reach after my experiences. If I hadn't gone out and tried to look for ways to achieve higher consciousness it would have been totally pointless.

My friend which has joined me on my trips has gained a lot less in my opionion. I can not look into his mind, but from interacting with him not much has changed. He might be a little more positive, but he hasn't made any of the changes I have made. I talked to him about meditation multiple times and the benefits I have gained from it. But he hasn't started meditating yet to my knowledge. He doesn't have to and that's okay, you can't force people. He has a different mentality towards psychedelics, he expects a lot more from them than I do. I think he puts too much value in it and that limits the gains he gets from it.

I'm not saying that psychedelics are the only way. People experience life changing experiences in different ways. But I am very thankful I'm still alive to tell my story and for all the gains I got from psychedelics.

If you are here in this forum you are already on a path to higher consciousness and probably don't need psychedelics. I'm only here because I took psychedelics :-)

[Emily]

14 hours ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

 @jordanhandrew @Emily

The problem with spiritual drug use is that it is a temporary expansion of consciousness at best. The results aren't permanent. Six years ago, when I was in college, I tried Ayahuasca twice. DMT is the active ingredient in this. Both times, I completely transcended my ego, and it was the most beautiful feeling I've ever had. I was whole again. So, I've had a taste of enlightenment. But the only value it now conveys to me is that it enables me to pursue enlightenment work without needing that much faith. I know there is a destination to the long journey, so I'm more likely to take it.

That said, I made many unwise decisions after the experience ended because I tried to abstractly apply the insights I received from the higher state of consciousness from a low-consciousness frame of mind, thinking that it would yield good results. For the most part, it did the opposite. Paradoxes will get you every time. My recommendation is to avoid spiritual drug use, because I don't want people making the same mistakes as I did. That said, if it's important to you, be sure to do tons of research and preparation; and remind yourself that an insight just becomes more knowledge, if it isn't directly connected to higher consciousness. Wisdom is like a river; it's alive and ever-changing. So, a wise decision now, is a foolish decision tomorrow. 

Interesting perspective. One part of me, as I said earlier in the thread, thinks that using psychedelics to reach enlightenment is kinda like cheating. But on the other hand, just because 'society' says drugs are bad/illegal, that doesn't necessarily make it true. If there's an 'easy' way of experiencing the truth, (however temporary) and it helps you to ultimately become enlightened, maybe it's worth considering.

I'd be interested to hear more on what you mean when you say: "That said, I made many unwise decisions after the experience ended because I tried to abstractly apply the insights I received from the higher state of consciousness from a low-consciousness frame of mind, thinking that it would yield good results. For the most part, it did the opposite. Paradoxes will get you every time."

[Walter B]

6 hours ago, Psychonaut said:

Everyone is different, everyone reacts different to drugs, situations and external stimuluses. That is what psychedelics are, stimulants for the mind that can provide experiences that feel like they are out of this world. For me psychedelics are similiar to taking a trip to a new town, a new city etc. You see something new while still being able to stay in your comfort zone at home. For me this gives value to psychedelics. I think you have to believe that psychedelics can provide you something for them to give you anything. Otherwise taking them will just harden your believe that drugs are bad and useless.

I have tripped 4 times on LSD with a good friend of mine. I feel I have gained a LOT more from it than he has. This saddens me a bit, but shows me that psychedelics aren't for everyone.

 

Let's give you a quick rundown of my 4 experiences:

1. time: 300ug LSD (not recommended for 1st time)

This was a 24h rollercoaster, up down. I had to face almost all the issues I have. I couldn't run away. They were there and verrrry real. I thought about many things and discussed lots of stuff with my friend. It was generally a very positive experience and a turning point in my journey.

What I learned:

- To ask questions.

- That my thoughts produce emotions.

- That I can control the direction of my thoughts and by that I can also control the emotions I feel.

What I changed after that:

- I started to filter my emotions into good and bad and suppressed the bad ones. This took tremendous amounts of energy. I had a watchdog in place that was similiar to out of control police killing of all negative thoughts. More on why this approach didn't work later.

 

2. time: 75ug LSD

This one was kind of useless. I still had an overcontrolling mind, was absent and didn't let go. Showed that my approach to controlling all my thoughts was flawed and I had to let go and not overcontrol my mind.

 

...

Some time between my 2nd and 3rd trip I found Leo's channel. I was especially interested in meditation and tried to figure out what it was about and if it would be useful for me.

 

3. time 200ug LSD

This was after a long travel, I was exhausted and tired. I will never take LSD in such a state again ever. In the first half of the trip I felt  really dead, no life, no energy. I have never felt so dead ever before. I didn't have suicidal thoughts, but I just felt like this trip was absolutely pointless. I had no weed either and my friend had a similiar experience. In the second part (the afterglow) of the trip I got an energy boost and thought about things that have bothered me for quite some time. I thought about going vegeterian and deleting my porn collection that I have spend hundreds of hours on collecting.

Changes I made after that:

- following day I started my daily meditation habit

- deleted my porn

- a week later I went vegetarian

 

4. time 200ug LSD + 60mg 2C-B (my tolerance is very high ;-))

I had the time of my life, I threw in the 2cb just for fun. I had followed through with my daily meditation and meditated before starting my trip. I also had bought lots and lots of fruit. Raspberries, blueberries, 2 kinds of grapes and oranges to enjoy on the trip. I was at peace during the whole duration of the trip. I had zero negative thoughts and no aggression for the first time on a trip. I was insanely happy, enjoyed my fruits to the fullest. This was not the kind of artificial happyness that other drugs provide, this felt real. Something that I created by making all the changes I made in my life because of the previous experiences.

Changes I made after this:

- 2 days later I started #nofap

 

Tldr:

I gained a lot from my experiences in a short time span of about 6 months. Psychedelics showed me the things I had to change and I changed them. Through good input from Leo's videos I changed lots of important things that affected my every day life in a positive way. Psychedelics showed me a slightly higher level of happyness/consciousness that I tried to reach after my experiences. If I hadn't gone out and tried to look for ways to achieve higher consciousness it would have been totally pointless.

My friend which has joined me on my trips has gained a lot less in my opionion. I can not look into his mind, but from interacting with him not much has changed. He might be a little more positive, but he hasn't made any of the changes I have made. I talked to him about meditation multiple times and the benefits I have gained from it. But he hasn't started meditating yet to my knowledge. He doesn't have to and that's okay, you can't force people. He has a different mentality towards psychedelics, he expects a lot more from them than I do. I think he puts too much value in it and that limits the gains he gets from it.

I'm not saying that psychedelics are the only way. People experience life changing experiences in different ways. But I am very thankful I'm still alive to tell my story and for all the gains I got from psychedelics.

If you are here in this forum you are already on a path to higher consciousness and probably don't need psychedelics. I'm only here because I took psychedelics :-)

Glow in the dark slinky time! Get the backlight out! 

And yes there is a Christmas tree hanging upside down from the ceiling! Just like the slinky!

What, what, what was that outside.....shhhhh

Look....It's Johnny Depp surrounded by horny dinosaurs!

[Leo Gura]

I think their biggest benefit is that they can get people interested in consciousness work after the fun is over. Most people have too limited an imagination to see that their entire reality can be a matrix. And something like LSD will cut through that.

[Ludwig]

 

 

I highly recommend this video up from 1:16:25. It's about drugs and self-realisation. I made the same experiences he describes and i can totally agree.

I used Mushrooms and Ayahuasca. Especially Ayahuasca can turn your whole world view upside down. I could literally see peoples egos, know their life story, see their emotional body etc. I was out of my body which nearly freaked me out, i experienced life as one of my family members, and had long moments (5-6 hours that felt like 10 minutes) in ecstasy.

To some this might sound attractive, scary or worth trying, but i would never recommend it to anyone. If you need to see these things it will anyway happen.

What i want to stress is:

Humans everyday conciousness is in such a way that he is able to survive on this planet in his physical form. What psychadelics like Aya will show you is that there are infinite levels of conciousness that can perceive this world. So you can meet anything possible, talk to holy beings in the realm of gods or whatever. But you can never expect such things, Aya shows you only the stuff you are capable of handling. It confronts you directly with all your suppressed subconcious AND the collective unconcious of the world. This might for many people be more painful and frightening than they could ever imagine.

 

For those whose calling it is to experience these realms i want to give some advice. Please take it deep into your heart:

• You need to have done quite some work on yourself, you have to be comfortable with yourself alone (some spiritual maturity)
• It has nothing to do with enlightenment - enlightenment is NOT a state of mind
• SETTING is MOST important (it should be a complete fearless environment, you should trust the shaman and the crew around 100%!, workshop should be at minimum 3-4 days)
• Whatever happens during the ceremony (it can seem that you will die!) DON'T resist, no resistance at all, LOVE EVERYTHING!! that comes up
• Don't do it unless you can't do otherwise

 

Much love.

[Emerald]

11 hours ago, Emily said:

Interesting perspective. One part of me, as I said earlier in the thread, thinks that using psychedelics to reach enlightenment is kinda like cheating. But on the other hand, just because 'society' says drugs are bad/illegal, that doesn't necessarily make it true. If there's an 'easy' way of experiencing the truth, (however temporary) and it helps you to ultimately become enlightened, maybe it's worth considering.

I'd be interested to hear more on what you mean when you say: "That said, I made many unwise decisions after the experience ended because I tried to abstractly apply the insights I received from the higher state of consciousness from a low-consciousness frame of mind, thinking that it would yield good results. For the most part, it did the opposite. Paradoxes will get you every time."

Because of the paradoxical nature of truth and wisdom, it means that wisdom isn't a fixed state. A wise action one minute can be a foolish action the next. So, wisdom is a constantly changing state of being and not any particular insight. For example, when I was on the Ayahuasca, I had an insight that everything was one and that there was no barrier between myself and anything else in existence. I felt deep unconditional love for everyone and everything. So, after the experience was over, I sought to have no boundaries between myself and others and to attempt to practice unconditional love. This was foolish and sometimes unsafe. So, I choked out the more practical truth that a person needs healthy boundaries for the loftier truth that all boundaries are illusory. Also, I had an insight that so much of my striving for achievements were neurotic attempts to feel significant. I was in college, so I was then pulling myself in two opposite directions: trying to maintain my achievements and trying to stop being in the achievement mindset. My grades dropped a bit, and I always felt conflicted and guilty about achievement from that point forward. I'm still trying to reconcile that one a bit. So, my misunderstanding of paradoxical insights really threw me for a loop for years following my experiences.

[Simon Zackrisson]

16 minutes ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

Because of the paradoxical nature of truth and wisdom, it means that wisdom isn't a fixed state. A wise action one minute can be a foolish action the next. So, wisdom is a constantly changing state of being and not any particular insight. For example, when I was on the Ayahuasca, I had an insight that everything was one and that there was no barrier between myself and anything else in existence. I felt deep unconditional love for everyone and everything. So, after the experience was over, I sought to have no boundaries between myself and others and to attempt to practice unconditional love. This was foolish and sometimes unsafe. So, I choked out the more practical truth that a person needs healthy boundaries for the loftier truth that all boundaries are illusory. Also, I had an insight that so much of my striving for achievements were neurotic attempts to feel significant. I was in college, so I was then pulling myself in two opposite directions: trying to maintain my achievements and trying to stop being in the achievement mindset. My grades dropped a bit, and I always felt conflicted and guilty about achievement from that point forward. I'm still trying to reconcile that one a bit. So, my misunderstanding of paradoxical insights really threw me for a loop for years following my experiences.

Does this have to be bad?

Don't we all want to affect to world in some way, preferably positive. 

 

Or do you mean that it felt like it wasn't really for you that you were doing it? Like you could find more authentic happiness elsewhere. (Technically one still does everything for oneself, even if that means that the emotional gratification is granted with the perception of doing something for someone else).

[Choks]

I always like to give everything a try to feel the experience. Whether its new food, drugs, countries, skydiving, etc. For me, the title of the discussion is wrong: "using psychedelics for self actualization". I tried certain drugs, not to be more self actualized or gain consciousness, but because of the experience. That experience may be good, may be bad, may shatter the ego, or may even make the ego stronger. But if you have a bad experience with shrooms or LSD, yes, you are going to live in hell for a while. But then you are going to realize it was all created because of your thoughts. You had the bad experience because your brain wasn't trained enough or ready yet to try this hallucinogens. You will learn that not everything you labeled as "bad" is bad, or whatever you labeled as "good" is good. So in a way, by having the experience, you may come to these realizations and help you to awaken. But its not like I'm going to say: ok, time to feel actualized, bring me some shrooms and acid. 

There is this treatment that is called micro dosing. A doctor uses LSD in micro amounts and injects it into you scalp or other part of the body i don't remember... so you don't feel those hardcore effect or hallucinating. The outcome was that the person ended up feeling clear minded, much more creative, productive, and with new perspectives. I would like to try that one day. I'm not saying: drugs are good, all of you should try them. Everybody reacts differently but in my opinion and experience, drugs have really helped me awaken (the first time or couple times i did it). But now that i know the path, I'm not going to go look for psychedelics to try self-actualize. I already found the path because of the drugs. Now instead of using more drugs to self actualize, i use books, journaling, meditation, visualizations, etc. Drugs sometimes just show you the path, sometimes they don't and the ego grabs it as just another thing to identify itself with. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by Choks

[Walter B]

38 minutes ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

Because of the paradoxical nature of truth and wisdom, it means that wisdom isn't a fixed state. A wise action one minute can be a foolish action the next. So, wisdom is a constantly changing state of being and not any particular insight. For example, when I was on the Ayahuasca, I had an insight that everything was one and that there was no barrier between myself and anything else in existence. I felt deep unconditional love for everyone and everything. So, after the experience was over, I sought to have no boundaries between myself and others and to attempt to practice unconditional love. This was foolish and sometimes unsafe. So, I choked out the more practical truth that a person needs healthy boundaries for the loftier truth that all boundaries are illusory. Also, I had an insight that so much of my striving for achievements were neurotic attempts to feel significant. I was in college, so I was then pulling myself in two opposite directions: trying to maintain my achievements and trying to stop being in the achievement mindset. My grades dropped a bit, and I always felt conflicted and guilty about achievement from that point forward. I'm still trying to reconcile that one a bit. So, my misunderstanding of paradoxical insights really threw me for a loop for years following my experiences.

Once I perceived wholly that all of us have the potential to make the same achievements it became natural to enjoy them simply bc it was my life. I became a teacher eventually. With purpose to help others achieve more than myself. So, there you go. Make all the money you can spend. Learn all your mind can handle. Achieve the most you can. Just stay humble and never forget where you came from. Your achievements may help the whole world someday. In spite of those that would have you climb under a rock and hide them. But...do choose your battles relative to your circumstance wisely and remember patience can be your best friend.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Simon Zackrisson said:

Does this have to be bad?

Don't we all want to affect to world in some way, preferably positive. 

 

Or do you mean that it felt like it wasn't really for you that you were doing it? Like you could find more authentic happiness elsewhere. (Technically one still does everything for oneself, even if that means that the emotional gratification is granted with the perception of doing something for someone else).

I realized that I was sacrificing a lot of personal happiness for the sake of perpetuating and aggrandizing an illusory self-image. When this impetus fell away, true inspiration and satisfaction remained. I had desires to affect the world, but none of them were grounded in ego; they were a result of pure joy, love, and inspiration. But self-interest didn't go away. It's just that my perception of myself expanded to include all of existence. So, compassion and self-interest were one and the same.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Pyrrhocorax graculus said:

Once I perceived wholly that all of us have the potential to make the same achievements it became natural to enjoy them simply bc it was my life. I became a teacher eventually. With purpose to help others achieve more than myself. So, there you go. Make all the money you can spend. Learn all your mind can handle. Achieve the most you can. Just stay humble and never forget where you came from. Your achievements may help the whole world someday. In spite of those that would have you climb under a rock and hide them. But...do choose your battles relative to your circumstance wisely and remember patience can be your best friend.

Well said.  

[JustinS]

Depends on your intentions and how you use it and what you will expect when coming back down. They can be a great stepping stone or a big weight on your shoulders when it comes to self actualization work, it all varies in the slightest way depending on your current inner state. I personally have used them in the past and have gained major life changing perspectives and would probably not have been on this journey if it weren't for them introducing me to spirituality, and showing me what it's like to be in the eternal Now. I am forever grateful for them, but now do not need them as I have faith in the direction that I'm heading in. 

[charlie2dogs]

On 2/10/2016 at 8:24 AM, Jared said:

To preface, I am not encouraging the use of illegal psychedelics, I am just curious on your opinions on how beneficial the use of things like LSD and DMT can be in the enlightenment journey. I personally have experienced an extreme ego death on DMT which was what got me interested in meditation, self improvement and the idea of no self. Obviously if someone plans to have one of these experiences they should be knowledgeable of the drug, it's potency and the effects it will have. Most importantly I want to note that for me psychedelics are used as way to gain new perspectives on certain aspects of life, using them solely to find answers is not what they are meant for. So what are your thoughts and opinions? Has anyone had a similar experience, and was it beneficial to self actualization?

psychedelics and enlightenment should not be in the same discussion together,  In my lifetime i have studied from many masters and sages, and not one of them promote the use of drugs for enlightenment.   Altering your state of consciousness is not the way to attain self realization, first of all how do you know where what you are experiencing is really coming from and why, can can you really trust what you are experiencing being you are not in a clear state state of consciousness but rather an altered one.   Anyone attaining self realization will do it without drugs and will want to remain in a state of clarity.  The use of drugs is like dreams, too many people put too much stock in their dreams and have no idea where what they dreamed really came from and why they dreamed it.  The human identity dreams because it is the dream and often it needs drugs to cope with the dream.  This line of thinking won't  popular with those who like to use psychedelics and most human identities, many of which needs some kind of drug to cope with what they have created unconsciously.