Is everyone already enlightened?

[Psych2Awak3n]

I hear this phrase often with some gurus. What do they mean by this? It seems like they mean we are literally enlightened, but wouldn't it make more sense for them to say that our higher self does exists, but we are not actually enlightened AKA we don't realise it?

[softlyblossoming]

@Psych2Awak3n Maybe they want us to make our thoughts match the same as their thoughts, and it will bring us closer to their way of seeing the world? Or perhaps they want to point out that who we are is an illusion that only exists in our own thoughts, and underneath it we are what we really are, which is already underneath and is only being obscured.

Chances are, I'm about as sure as you are when it comes to this one.

What do you or others think of my hypotheses? What would you change to make them more reasonable?

[TheAlchemist]

Yeah I think it's essentially a pointer. A way of looking that goes against the idea that awakening/enlightenment is something that happens to some person as an event in the future as a result of practicing some techniques. 

But of course, just a conceptual understanding is not "it", but that doesn't seem to be a concern for those teachers. They see it so that the action of seeking can be a such a big distraction that it's better to be very direct.

But yes these are just my understandings of something that apparently the "me" cannot really ever grasp, so who knows, could be totally on the wrong tracks.

[cetus]

6 hours ago, Psych2Awak3n said:

It seems like they mean we are literally enlightened,

 You are enlightenment happening. This post is enlightenment.

[4201]

9 hours ago, Psych2Awak3n said:

I hear this phrase often with some gurus. What do they mean by this? It seems like they mean we are literally enlightened, but wouldn't it make more sense for them to say that our higher self does exists, but we are not actually enlightened AKA we don't realise it?

To Realize : become fully aware of (something) as a fact; understand clearly.

In your opinion, is a fact not a fact because you don't realize it? If your sunglasses are on your head but you don't realize it, does it mean your sunglasses are not on your head? A fact is a fact, whether you realize it or not.

But perhaps you had a different picture of what enlightenment is. And you might have a picture of yourself which doesn't match the other picture. But none of those mental pictures are what enlightenment is nor what you are. You cannot put enlightenment into a picture frame. Nor can I distill the essence of what you are into a bunch of bullet points. Enlightenment is the present moment with all of its uniqueness and oddness, it is consciousness, it is you.

Enlightenment is not a state you get triggered "into" after having a realization. It's not even a state where you have no thought or no identification. It's what you are right now.

But regardless of the ideas you have about enlightenment and about yourself, I recommend a combination of contemplating those ideas and meditation.

Edited November 29, 2021 by 4201

[Leo Gura]

No

[The0Self]

Enlightenment is searching for enlightenment, just for the hell of it. Nobody is enlightened. Yet, when the self dies, there is only life.

[Mosess]

You could say that everyone is enlightened but very few realize that literally in their actual direct experience.

many would just say it while sleepwalking, so they would just intellectualize about it, stuck inside their minds and too afraid to have the ball sack to actually see it for themselves

[gettoefl]

8 hours ago, Mosess said:

You could say that everyone is enlightened but very few realize that literally in their actual direct experience.

many would just say it while sleepwalking, so they would just intellectualize about it, stuck inside their minds and too afraid to have the ball sack to actually see it for themselves

you are enlightened but prefer the party in dark end

[mandyjw]

The knowing mistakes itself for the known. The knower is always actually the known. However there is no known without the knowing of it.  (These three statements go full circle.)

In your direct experience, what you might have thought to be you is always the known. I am aware of my hands typing, but the thought of an entity behind or doing this is always a thought I am also aware of. It is on equal level with the seeing of my hands, the sensation, it is never something that owns it. I am mistaken in my belief that I am ever the knower, when I have never experienced this but have only ever been knowing. 

known knowing

There is no knowing outside of now, hence "already". If one was to strip themselves of the known, strip themselves of themselves, "Be melting snow, wash yourself of yourself" -Rumi, this would only entail letting go of thoughts that knowing is aware of that claim to be the knower. However this can only be "done" now, and because of its timelessness is a seeing, not a doing. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by mandyjw

[Nadosa]

No.

[Mosess]

2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

you are enlightened but prefer the party in dark end

Yeah. i do

I find absolutely no point in attaining it. You don't attain anything. it is absolutely pointless to a degree that you can't even imagine and so, for that reason, i try to steer people away from enlightenment as much as i can.

Those who are not steered away, are the genuine few who do not "want" to be enlightened, but who can't help themselves. 

You can't even say that they desire to be enlightened, it so happens that enlightenment desires them, and so they need to be directed to it by someone who has went through the process.

Other than that, its a waste of time for most people, which is ALOT of people, atleast that is what i think for now