Why is there something rather than nothing? (opinion)

[Someone here]

19 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Nevermind the body for now.

No! Answer my question. Why can't the body be you ? 

19 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

I'm speaking about the seeking energy that feels like there's something that needs to be understood or known.... the feeling that the answer is just around the next corner somewhere.

Is this your experience?

Yes. 

[Someone here]

20 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Have you reached cessation yet? It adds a whole new dimension to this inquiry. 

I don't know what cessation is. 

[Tim R]

9 hours ago, The0Self said:

Forgetting that "you" are infinite is itself the entire substance of "you" -- as in it's not even that you are infinite, as that would be a position and a meaning to the ungraspable. If something is forgotten then there must appear to be someone who (unknowingly) forgot -- that's all the someone is.

Very well put. I always find it quite difficult to put this into words.

Infinity, what is boundless, can't be/know the finite or it wouldn't be infinity. To "dis-member" (as the opposite of "re-member"; i.e. to forget) is to become finite - but only in the sense that infinity appears to be finite, but never "actually" is. 

Something appears. Or: Love forgot. And not even that, Love doesn't forget, but to be Infinity/Love is to "necessarily" forget and remember. 

[silene]

@Tim R  so it's like, forgetting the infinite is the price we pay for knowing distinctions, having an identity with experiences (apparently). 

But then however many experiences the apparent individual enjoys (or hates)  we always sense there's something more, something deeper - like the infinite is calling us back.

But we think we can have our cake and eat it, be an enlightened individual with a foot in both camps. Is that possible or do we need to wait for mahasamadhi to completely end the illusion, return to the source, be infinite. Is it possible while we're still alive or do we need to retain some wisp of distinction, of ignorance? 

[Tim R]

5 minutes ago, silene said:

@Tim RBut we think we can have our cake and eat it, be an enlightened individual with a foot in both camps. Is that possible or do we need to wait for mahasamadhi to completely end the illusion, return to the source, be infinite. Is it possible while we're still alive or do we need to retain some wisp of distinction, of ignorance? 

To be honest, I don't know.

[VeganAwake]

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

No! Answer my question. Why can't the body be you ? 

So the body there is unsure whether or not it's the body there?

Why would it ever think its something else?

Yes. 

What do you think the body is searching for?

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by VeganAwake

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Tim R said:

To be honest, I don't know.

❤ ? 

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, silene said:

But we think we can have our cake and eat it, be an enlightened individual with a foot in both camps. Is that possible or do we need to wait for mahasamadhi to completely end the illusion, return to the source, be infinite. Is it possible while we're still alive or do we need to retain some wisp of distinction, of ignorance? 

There just isn't someone there waiting to attain mahasamadhi. That's the cosmic joke.

Like a self-perpetuating illusion, the waiting/seeking perpetuates the belief that there is in fact a real individual that can one day arrive at enlightenment.

This never happens.

Enlightenment is the recognition there was never someone separate from it in the first place.

❤ 

[Tim R]

@VeganAwake What is Mahasamadhi? 

 

[r0ckyreed]

Why is there nothing rather than something? Think about that mind screwer.

[silene]

@VeganAwake  I'm using me / we as figures of speech, not as a belief they're real. I don't even know what 'real' means anyway.  

51 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Like a self-perpetuating illusion, the waiting/seeking perpetuates the belief that there is in fact a real individual that can one day arrive at enlightenment.

This never happens.

Enlightenment is the recognition there was never someone separate from it in the first place.

I'm confused, does something happen or not?  

If the seeking illusion falls away that's just another way of saying that the belief in a separate individual ends. I was wondering if this can fully happen during our human lifetime, or only after death/mahasamadhi. Or does the mind need to retain a smidgen of seeking to stay alive? 

 

12 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Why is there nothing rather than something? Think about that mind screwer.

Not sure who this is aimed at, but here's my tuppence. Why should it be "rather than"?  Why not both, or even neither?   

Edited December 3, 2021 by silene

[VeganAwake]

57 minutes ago, Tim R said:

@VeganAwake What is Mahasamadhi? 

 

The word points to the end of the experience of separation or enlightenment, samadhi, nirvana, awakening, moksha, liberation, freedom, paradise, this.

❤ 

 

[Tim R]

4 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

The word points to the end of the experience of separation or enlightenment, samadhi, nirvana, awakening, moksha, liberation, freedom, paradise, this.

@VeganAwake Why speak of Samadhi and Mahasamadhi? 

Quote

Mahasamadhi (Sanskrit: mahāsamādhi m.) is the death of a master, the complete absorption of the master in Samadhi. Mahasamadhi means that the yogi or yogini, who has already reached Nirvikalpa Samadhi and has permanently realized oneness beyond all duality, consciously and intentionally leaves his/her body at a certain point in time.

I don't see why there should be any "leaving the body". Do you know what this is all about? 

Nirvana can't be different from Samsara, but in Samsara, it must seems like Mahasamadhi is necessary to reach Brahman?

[silene]

By coincidence (I hope!) this came up on my youtube feed today, an explanation of nothing vs something   

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by silene

[VeganAwake]

39 minutes ago, silene said:

@VeganAwake  

I'm confused, does something happen or not?  

It seems like something happens but it's the end of the experience of separation which was never real in the first place.... so it's a non happening.

If the seeking illusion falls away that's just another way of saying that the belief in a separate individual ends.

Yes and no. An illusion doesn't fall away because it was never real in the first place. It's more than just a belief, it's an experience of being a separate localized individual within the body.... but there's no one really there. (Illusion of self) 

I was wondering if this can fully happen during our human lifetime, or only after death/mahasamadhi.

It's worse than that because it's already the case....?.... try explaining that to your buddy lol.

Or does the mind need to retain a smidgen of seeking to stay alive? 

Did the mind seem to end when it was recognized Santa Claus wasn't real? No just the experience that Santa Claus was real ended.

❤ 

 

[VeganAwake]

19 minutes ago, Tim R said:

@VeganAwake Why speak of Samadhi and Mahasamadhi? 

It just seems to be what's happening.

I don't see why there should be any "leaving the body".

That's the cosmic joke....there already isn't anyone that could or couldn't leave the body.

Do you know what this is all about? 

It's just a concept within the experience of separation(dualism)

Nirvana can't be different from Samsara, but in Samsara, it must seems like Mahasamadhi is necessary to reach Brahman?

Here it would seem that nirvana, samsara, mahasamadhi and brahman are all words pointing to the end of the experience of separation.... (Paradise, Heaven On Earth, THIS)

❤ 

 

 

[The0Self]

8 hours ago, silene said:

@Tim R  so it's like, forgetting the infinite is the price we pay for knowing distinctions, having an identity with experiences (apparently). 

But then however many experiences the apparent individual enjoys (or hates)  we always sense there's something more, something deeper - like the infinite is calling us back.

But we think we can have our cake and eat it, be an enlightened individual with a foot in both camps. Is that possible or do we need to wait for mahasamadhi to completely end the illusion, return to the source, be infinite. Is it possible while we're still alive or do we need to retain some wisp of distinction, of ignorance? 

(In place of) that which was forgotten -- the "memory" of infinity -- appears as a big terrifying hole that we call death or the unknown, and it compels the individual to look away (compels God to look away, and thereby fool itself into being an individual). The calling back toward the infinite can be as simple as a curiosity about this hole. It's a story, but in a sense, God made this big gaping terrifying hole so that even God would look away from it so that it can sufficiently fool itself in order to pretend that it's a finite individual on a journey to what's longed for. Of course that means the journey or whatever appears is exactly what is longed for -- which is, "by design" so to speak, not understandable (as least not in a finite sense through finite means).

What "you" are is nothing (everything) -- infinitude -- imagining something else; awareness/objects.

Obviously don't take this as absolute truth. It's not a process that actually happens in time like other things. This is just a pointing to what can only be apparently revealed directly.

Edited December 3, 2021 by The0Self

[silene]

@VeganAwake  I think it's the difference in our language which is tripping me up rather than a substantial disagreement. I'd just add that illusions aren't completely unreal, they're a mixture of actual stimulus + imaginary interpretation of the stimulus. Eg A mirage is made of real light (true) + our cognition that the light represents water (false). Or a magician playing with actual cards, creates a false belief in our minds. I think something analogous is occurring with the sense of self. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by silene

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, silene said:

@VeganAwake  I think it's the difference in our language which is tripping me up rather than a substantial disagreement. I'd just add that illusions aren't completely unreal, they're a mixture of actual stimulus + imaginary interpretation of the stimulus. Eg A mirage is made of real light (true) + our cognition that the light represents water (false). Or a magician playing with actual cards, creates a false belief in our minds. I think something analogous is occurring with the sense of self. 

Gotcha, yes I understand what you're saying.

When the word illusion is used here it's pointing to an experience that seems real but is completely unreal.

❤ 

[Someone here]

18 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

No! Answer my question. Why can't the body be you ? 

So the body there is unsure whether or not it's the body there?

Why would it ever think its something else?

Yes. 

What do you think the body is searching for?

Yoo lost me there. I don't know what your talking about.