Are there any billion dollar companies that aren't devils?

[MarkKol]

Recently I've watched one of Leo's conscious politics videos (Part 4) and have been thinking to myself: Is a company valued at 1 billion dollars even possible without engaging in all sorts of devilry like moving money across seas to avoid taxes like Apple, the irony of slapping "Made by Apple in California" on your products and then literally going out of your own way to avoid contributing to that same state/country, or Steve jobs literally saying "The purpose of Apple is to sell products that we would recommend to our family and friends" and then overpricing your products and exploiting those same "FAMILY AND FRIENDS", but then if you compare someone who isn't really exploiting anyone like a Music artist for example Billie Eilish, her net worth is $53M, compared to Apple's $2 Trillion.

without doing much contemplation, my observation is: The more a company is worth the less likely they earned that much money with Integrity, which also means that if your in the TOP 10 most valuable companies like Apple... you definitely exploited and scammed your way to that position.

[Leo Gura]

The thing is, all survival is exploitation of others. You cannot survive without externalities and collateral damage.

Just to stay alive you gotta kill things every day. That's the nature of survival. You create externalities even if you are the bestest vegan hippie.

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

all survival is exploitation of others.

If everyone becomes a vegan hippie, it is possible to stop exploitation. 

Maybe I'm wishful thinking. 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

If everyone becomes a vegan hippie, it is possible to stop exploitation.

No it isn't.

[Average Investor]

19 hours ago, MarkKol said:

companies like Apple... you definitely exploited and scammed your way to that position.

Apple for sure has a fair amount of exploitation in with their manufacturing. However, this initial greed is also a big part of the reason you were able to type what you wrote. Apple innovated heavily with Steve Jobs around. 

I've seen some BS around people losing feeling in their fingers, that work on the Iphone from chemicals. 

I bought my first pair of leather boots the other day. Then I remembered hearing about people not liking that. I looked it up and of course it comes from slaughtering animals. Those boots could probably help get me laid though. So I guess you have to pick your battles. 

[Rilles]

The bigger the company the higher the chance for devilry, why? Because its hard to control so many variables without everything being out of control and the system going unconcious. Its so easy to be good when youre an ice cream stand, when billions of dollars depend on you its another story.

[gettoefl]

34 minutes ago, Rilles said:

The bigger the company the higher the chance for devilry, why? Because its hard to control so many variables without everything being out of control and the system going unconcious. Its so easy to be good when youre an ice cream stand, when billions of dollars depend on you its another story.

not necessarily the big guy only needs to fleece you of one cent, the small guy need at least a few bucks from you or he is not eating tonight

[Rilles]

53 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

not necessarily the big guy only needs to fleece you of one cent, the small guy need at least a few bucks from you or he is not eating tonight

Corporations fleece way more in their tax evasion.

[DocWatts]

Less of a binary thing and more of a sliding scale of Devilry.

Exon Mobile is further along on that scale than Tesla, but they're both playing a game where the incentive structure rewards Devilry.

[Shin]

9 hours ago, Preety_India said:

If everyone becomes a vegan hippie, it is possible to stop exploitation. 

Maybe I'm wishful thinking. 

You still exploit plants.

[Rilles]

49 minutes ago, Shin said:

You still exploit plants.

Lets start by treating all humans on the planet fairly then we can start worrying about the emotional life of plants.

[Shin]

5 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Lets start by treating all humans on the planet fairly then we can start worrying about the emotional life of plants.

I know but I was just replying to her, I still eat meat boko !

[gettoefl]

2 hours ago, Rilles said:

Corporations fleece way more in their tax evasion.

there is no vice in tax evasion ... no one wants to pay onerous tax and human nature will take any measure to ensure so

[Rilles]

4 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

there is no vice in tax evasion ... no one wants to pay onerous tax and human nature will take any measure to ensure so

1. Its a crime.

2. It harms society by straining the budget for public spending.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Rilles

[DocWatts]

34 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

there is no vice in tax evasion ... no one wants to pay onerous tax and human nature will take any measure to ensure so

Of course Corporations and affluent Individuals are going to use every means at their disposal to avoid contributing back to the system that made them wealthy by finding ways to evade taxes, because that's exactly what a culture mired in toxic individualism incentives.

Since we know that this is the case, it's on the more socially conscious among us to work and advocate for systemic reforms to limit the opportunities for the affluent to game and cheat the system.

Allowing individuals and syndicates to amass so much wealth in the first place is one of the Root issues, as it gives Bad Actors opportunities to capture political institutions and corrupt them to serve their own interests.

Unfortunately this is a feature rather than a bug that is baked in to Capitalism, where Capitalism and Democracy are working at cross purposes.

Social Democracy is a step in the right direction, but more fundamental reforms towards a post-capitalist society that takes a different approach to how markets and capital interact with the broader society will be what's ultimately required to fix the flaws with this perverse incentive structure.

Edited November 19, 2021 by DocWatts

[gettoefl]

35 minutes ago, Rilles said:

1. Its a crime.

2. It harms society by straining the budget for public spending.

yes excessive tax is a reckless crime, and companies do whatever it takes to minimize the hit and who will blame them

[Rilles]

11 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

yes excessive tax is a reckless crime, and companies do whatever it takes to minimize the hit and who will blame them

Whats excessive in your opinion? What should the rate be? 

[gettoefl]

15 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Whats excessive in your opinion? What should the rate be? 

in the uk it has often been above 50% on profit ... that is ludicrous ... it should be more or less what an individual pays, perhaps about 20%-25% is fair

[PurpleTree]

how about monsanto

everybody loves them

[AdroseAkise]

Exploitation does not necessarily have to be a cruel thing. If I milk a cow and harvest a chicken's eggs, yeah I'm exploiting those animals but I'm not hurting them.