How is it possible to not eat vegatables at all

[Intense]

I need a way to approach an extreme low carb diet without getting deficiencies, i have been having sibo symptoms and need to lose weight and i basically want to cut out carbs forever. 
 

@Leo Gura you talked about literally cutting out all carbs. This means you do not even eat vegetables. How is this possible, is this only for sibo? Would you eat veg if you did not have sibo? Do you  need to take supplements for fiber and other nutrients?

so basically an extreme keto diet would be only healthy fats and protein, So only meat, healthy oils and butter, avocados, and that is basically it. Even nuts would be too much carbs.

I dont see how that could be sustainable, i thought the whole appeal of low carb was to restrict carbs but eat a wide variety of vegetables, meats, and nuts. If you substract vegetables and nuts it is basically carnivore only. 
 

 

[Intense]

@Michael569 thanks. so how much fruit and veg is minimally required per day ti remain healthy? Because I do want to keep carbs as low as possible

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Intense said:

 

@Leo Gura you talked about literally cutting out all carbs. This means you do not even eat vegetables.

Yup, easily doable.

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How is this possible, is this only for sibo?

I did it for SIBO and other health issues I've been struggling with.

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Would you eat veg if you did not have sibo?

Yes

Veggies are usually good for ya.

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Do you  need to take supplements for fiber and other nutrients?

No.

Protein and fat contain all the nutrients you need. I do take a bit of supplements but I doubt it's necessary.

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so basically an extreme keto diet would be only healthy fats and protein, So only meat, healthy oils and butter, avocados, and that is basically it. Even nuts would be too much carbs.

Research carnivore diet.

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I dont see how that could be sustainable, i thought the whole appeal of low carb was to restrict carbs but eat a wide variety of vegetables, meats, and nuts. If you substract vegetables and nuts it is basically carnivore only.

I don't recommend carnivore diet unless you have some special condition that requires it, like SIBO.

Carnivore will shoot your bad cholesterol through the roof. So be careful.

I do not consider carnivore diet to be healthy long-term. You should try to eat as many fruits and veggies as you can if your body can tolerate them.

[How to be wise]

@Michael569 From my research, it seems that fruits are actually unhealthy because of their high sugar level. As for the nutrients, you can simply rely on supplements. I’ve seen many phd’s that recommend cutting out fruits altogether.

[Username]

On 25/10/2021 at 4:42 PM, Leo Gura said:

Carnivore will shoot your bad cholesterol through the roof. So be careful.

Fasting will also rise your LDL. So be careful  

https://www.hcplive.com/view/cholesterol-levels-rise-after-a-24-hour-fast

Your LDL will be higher if your body is using fats as a fuel. LDL isn't a good indicator of CVD.

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura How about sugar. How could you live without consuming anything sweet? I doubt I could live without sweetening my tea.

[Username]

58 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura How about sugar. How could you live without consuming anything sweet? I doubt I could live without sweetening my tea.

It is super easy to eliminate sugar almost completely (there are sweeteners so there is no real sacrifice). It's much harder to use it in 'moderation' because it's addictive. I have same issue with coffee. If I start to drink certain amount of caffeine it will go out of control quickly.

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura How about sugar. How could you live without consuming anything sweet? I doubt I could live without sweetening my tea.

It's not fun, that's for sure. But I have done it.

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura Have you tried stevia? It’s a sugar substitute, but I don’t think it’s carb.

[Username]

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Interesting finding. I wonder what would happen if they kept observing for a few more days. Maybe this was an initial adaptation as glucose and glycogen were depleted and fats were excessively shuttled around the body. Longer-term data would be interesting to see for comparison although this is obviously challenging when you have participants on water fast. 

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

But an acute elevation of a marker does not mean that that particular marker has no value in diagnosis of chronic disease.

Large buoyant LDL is a fuel carrier and isn't a problem. The issue is that if you measure total LDL it is mostly large buoyant and it doesn't give much information about more dangerous forms of LDL which are smaller. In some cases people might have higher cholesterol and be healthy, and some people with normal cholesterol levels might have too much small dense LDL.

Another paradox is that if you test LDL in a fasted state (this is how it is usually made), person who is fat adapted will get higher levels of cholesterol. LDL itself isn't a direct cause of CDV. I agree that if you have high LDL it is worth to check other makers to be safe.

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

I see this idea of "LDL is not useful because XYZ" in the low-carb community and it is an incredibly dangerous statement to make and to share amount public uneducated about the risks of elevated cardiovascular markers. A person with no understanding of medicine hears this and they're like "oh well maybe it's ok that my cholesterol is up" and they will not see a doctor, not undergo treatment, carry on eating beef and bacon and end up with myocardial infarction in their late 40s because they've been exposed to brainwashing on youtube. 

Another interesting fact:

"Cholesterol absorption efficiency was lower and cholesterol synthesis was higher in obese subjects with diabetes than in those without diabetes, suggesting that diabetes modulates cholesterol metabolism more than obesity alone."

https://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/25/9/1511

The problem is that you lump together opposite groups of diabetes and low carb because of one shared marker - LDL.

I do not hold strong opinion about this subject but it seems to me that issue of LDL is overblown and in many cases dangerous because it impacts dietary choices.

[Nomad13]

On 10/26/2021 at 11:00 AM, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura How about sugar. How could you live without consuming anything sweet? I doubt I could live without sweetening my tea.

It’s possible. I used to be addicted to sweets (mint chocolate icecream, werthers candy, tres leche cakes, etc).  Now, I eat one meal a day ~20 gr carb whole food Keto diet. Even with one meal a day, I don’t  have hunger or snack food cravings. Before starting the keto diet, I went on an extended fast to break my addiction to all processed or junk food. 
Dr. Eric Berg’s youtube channel has lots of videos on keto and intermittent fasting that I found useful. I also take Athletic Greens to supplement my diet.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Nomad13

[Nahm]

@Intense

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/41823-the-loophole-shake-easy-way-to-change-diet/?do=findComment&comment=521516

[Leo Gura]

On 10/26/2021 at 11:22 PM, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura Have you tried stevia? It’s a sugar substitute, but I don’t think it’s carb.

Stevia tastes gross to me.

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura How about sugar alcohols?

[Leo Gura]

21 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura How about sugar alcohols?

They feed SIBO so absolutely not for me.

[Karmadhi]

How is your health? Are you still on the carnivore diet? Is it working?@Leo Gura

[HypnoticMagician]

You can get almost all vitamins, minerals, and proteins with just meat but you need probiotic, fiber too.