Leo Gura

Leo's Practical Guide To Enlightenment

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@Leo Gura I realize those aren't the same thing (my understanding of the distinction is still really incomplete), but I thought the degree to which one's affected by a psychedelic would correlate with degree of enlightenment, no? I'm not really sure.

Also, I'm not sure if this is really a worthwhile question in terms of personal development; I think I might just be mentally masturbating on this one since I would probably be better to answer it if I had experience with psychedelics and was enlightened.

Edit: Thanks for your edit; I think that clears it up a bit. I'll have to keep working at getting direct experience so my intuition is sharper.

Edited by username

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32 minutes ago, username said:

I thought the degree to which one's affected by a psychedelic would correlate with degree of enlightenment, no?

Why would there be any correlation?


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why would there be any correlation?

I've been under the impression that the sudden change in level of consciousness is the main variable in how one gets affected by the psychedelic trip. but that's been entirely based on conversations I've had with psychedelic users and from reading trip reports. 

From what I've learned/ read in addition to the minor insight I've gained from my spiritual practice, I thought that raising consciousness changes the way experiences affect you. For instance, with my meditation practice, I find myself to be more tranquil in what would have been previously very dramatic state experiences; I thought this would only become more pronounced with enlightenment.

Although, I'm thinking my idea of enlightenment may be very misguided. Since we talk so much about raising consciousness, I noticed I've been holding this underlying assumptions that enlightenment is sort of arrived at when you've raised your consciousness enough. However, I suppose this contradicts what else I've learned about enlightenment, being that it is not some state experience but a realization of your true existential nature.

That reminds me of another question I haven't been able to resolve on my own: Is enlightenment its various degrees a different matter from raising your consciousness?

Also, in your 5-Meo video, you describe the substance as inducing pure ego death, no visuals or strange experiences. Now, this may just be a misunderstanding on my part, but I thought that meant 5-MeO is just a preview of what complete enlightenment would be like. I inferred that would mean that by sufficiently raising one's consciousness, you could attain that permanently.  Did I get the wrong idea there? 

I think I might be out of my depth here though. I've only done daily meditation and self-inquiry, and one retreat with no enlightenment experiences yet and no experience with psychedelics, so I'm afraid I might be wasting my time trying to get good mental models without the proper reference experience.

Sorry if my structure here was a bit incoherent; I wrote this as a train of thought.

Edited by username

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@username Become highly enlightened, then do some heavy psychedelics, and let us know your findings.

Extra credit: Take a rattlesnake bite to the ass as well, just to be sure ;)


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Where am I ?

How can I only be "this" (this = what you really believe you are right now).

Why do I think I'm behind my eyes ?
What is this "ball" behind my eyes ?

 

OK BACK TO IT !

 

lets-do-this.gif

 

Edited by Shin

God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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"A Guru is not someone you meet or shake hands with. It is not someone you bow down to or beg for this or that. A Guru is a certain space or energy. The difference between a teacher or a scholar and a Guru is, a teacher is someone who holds a torch to something and shows it to you. Because of them you might have seen something. A Guru doesn’t hold a torch. He is the torch. He burns. Either you burn with him or you don’t.”

– Sadhguru

Wow, what a quote! So, basically, a guru mastered this life. It's the end of suffering for him. He learned to apply his "enlightenment experience" in real life (Maya). He doesn't identify with anything in the Maya - not the monkey mind to not identifying with the body - because "he is the 'pain'" - he can literally burn himself up like a torch (Eg. Like the monk who burned himself up in protest against the Vietnam War). Or, to a lesser degree, he mastered a skill, like yoga, and you are doing yoga with him.

Edited by Key Elements

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@Key Elements Don't idealize guru's too much. They are NOT perfectly enlightened. It's very hard not to identify with anything in Maya on a practical, everyday level.

@Afonso Yes, although the bot has to realize not just that it's the whole system, but that it is NOT any of the system.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Leo Gura I'm making my way through your book list and read God Is Nothingness and Mastering The Core Teachings of the Buddha, currently on Enlightenment, the Damndest Thing, and one thing that is conflicting me is the difference between Enlightenment and spiritual insight you get from state experiences. 

On one hand, I can see how experience as a whole, even the mystical ones could be just a distraction from Truth, on the other hand, it sounds like they might be worth cultivating. Do you think developing high concentrations states like the eight Jhana or profound samadhis are worthwhile, or should I not worry about attaining those and put more emphasis on just insight practice?

I'll keep going back and studying more carefully, but right now I don't know. Daniel Ingram seems to think it can be worthwhile but not necessary while I'm getting the impression Jed McKenna argues that all experience is just a distraction and mysticism may lead to delusion.

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@username It's not going to be a one-shot deal. You're gonna have tons of various kinds of experiences and mystical states along the way, most likely.

Concentration practice is very important. It's not the only important thing. But it's important.

There are many different paths. Many of them contradict on the surface, or in their practical application.

I've seen results from both inquiry and from meditation. I think they work great together. Most modern minds are very addicted, which is why I stress meditation so much. Most minds are in no position to do inquiry. Most minds need a few years of meditation practice just to calm down enough to do 20 minutes of inquiry.

You have to understand that people like Jed are extremely rare and hardcore. Are you willing to do what he did?

There are gradual paths, there are extreme paths. Obviously the extreme paths can take you deeper, faster. But most people cannot handle them. You always have to consider who the teaching is aimed at, and how well you fit the bill. A teaching is worthless to you if you cannot handle it.

Meditation is not about experience. It's about training up your mind so you can more easily break through experience.

And "Truth" is far from the only consideration.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Leo Gura I see, thank you. As for being hardcore, it's a long-term goal, but I'm not shy to admit that I need to do a lot more prep before handling that level of work. I've minimalized my life to just consciousness work and life purpose, but I still sort of have to tip-toe around the intense work since I was overwhelmed by going full blast without much prep, so now I spend a lot of my time reading up on the theory while being more mild with the practice since I'm a rookie. 

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And "Truth" is far from the only consideration.

Are you referring to the post-enlightenment work you and others talk about, such as embodying Truth and working on the unhealthy ego structures?

I'm a bit confused about that as well (I'm going to be hitting up Peter Ralston's series pretty soon and I know he discusses that).  Ingram talked about training in morality as an important part of development on the path, and I know a lot of teachers emphasize things like love and compassion, but I don't get if I'm supposed to intuitively grasp right action as a result of my practice or if that is an endeavor of it's own. 

You speak about this sort of stuff here:

Is this stuff part of pursuing Enlightenment, or is it transformation advice that isn't necessarily about pursuing Truth, or both?

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@username Truth and changing yourself are really two unrelated things. They are related of course, but best not to muddle them up, because it will lead to all sorts of stupidity, as seen in some of the threads about morality, etc.

The Absolute Truth is one thing. And then changing yourself, developing your human body and mind and life, is another thing.

One of the biggest problems with religions is that they muddle up existential truths with lifestyle changes. And this confuses a lot of people into thinking that Absolute Truth mandates a certain kind of lifestyle. Strictly speaking it does not. Although as you become more conscious, you want to naturally act more consciously.

For example, a lot of people will tell you that being enlightened means you gotta become a vegan. That's not the case at all. Whether you decide to become a vegan is irrelevant to the Truth. Truth is Truth no matter what you decide to do. You could decide to kill yourself, and the Truth would still be the Truth after your body is dead.

Or you could decide to become a ballerina. And just because you're enlightened doesn't mean you'll be a great ballerina. That will take tons of work.

Most importantly perhaps... mastering your emotions is WAY harder than enlightenment. If you want that, that will take decades of consciousness work. Relationships too. Physical health too. Business too.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Leo Gura I see! Thanks for clarifying; that was a big sticking point for me.

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@Leo Gura

I'm still doing the Concentration Practices so I can boost my Meditation and Self-Inquiry.

But I'm not clear if I'm reaching Access Concentration or not.

I use the same method as you (repeating sound in smartphone app).

At some point in my session, I can "hear" the echoes of the beep in my head. Is this a sign of access concentration?

Confused :S

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@Afonso You should hit a groove where the concentration becomes effortless and joyful.

Not totally effortless, but relatively effortless. It's stop being a boring grind.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@username Truth and changing yourself are really two unrelated things. They are related of course, but best not to muddle them up, because it will lead to all sorts of stupidity, as seen in some of the threads about morality, etc.

The Absolute Truth is one thing. And then changing yourself, developing your human body and mind and life, is another thing.

One of the biggest problems with religions is that they muddle up existential truths with lifestyle changes. And this confuses a lot of people into thinking that Absolute Truth mandates a certain kind of lifestyle. Strictly speaking it does not. Although as you become more conscious, you want to naturally act more consciously.

For example, a lot of people will tell you that being enlightened means you gotta become a vegan. That's not the case at all. Whether you decide to become a vegan is irrelevant to the Truth. Truth is Truth no matter what you decide to do. You could decide to kill yourself, and the Truth would still be the Truth after your body is dead.

Or you could decide to become a ballerina. And just because you're enlightened doesn't mean you'll be a great ballerina. That will take tons of work.

Most importantly perhaps... mastering your emotions is WAY harder than enlightenment. If you want that, that will take decades of consciousness work. Relationships too. Physical health too. Business too.

In my view enlightenment also includes complete purification, being the embodiment of truth/unconditional love.

So I can't say whether that's harder but I think it comes before absolute awakening(/enlightenment) as absolute awakening completely opens one up according to some teachers I trust.

By the way, according to Shinzen Young, you can develop a taste for purification, allowing it to happen exponentially:

 

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1 hour ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

In my view enlightenment also includes complete purification, being the embodiment of truth/unconditional love.

If that's how you define enlightenment, then it will take you 50 years to get enlightened. Good luck.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Martin123 Do it your way then. I'm not here to debate with you.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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