Leo, how much have you read into Taoism?

[The0Self]

21 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

@Mason Riggle Semantic mazes have stopped impressing me since I was 13. None of you have actually any clue what you're dealing with when you're talking psychedelics. You're gonna create a lot of suffering for yourself and others with that kind of foolishness.

In my story I was about as deep into the psychedelic experience as one can apparently be. 500mg 5-MeO-DMT inside of a week or two, sheets upon sheets of LSD, etc etc... Tons of God realizations where there's just timeless infinity, lots of flashy stuff... Jhana (without psychedelics), fun meditation states, profound insights, etc...

It never ever leads to already just what's appearing to happen without any cause or meaning or limit or other (and therefore anything better), which is peerless freedom...

Edited September 28, 2021 by The0Self

[impulse9]

God realization isn't the endpoint. It's just a way to map a certain experience to an ontological concept in order to satisfy your relentless ego. It's fine, I get it. I understand very well what Leo means by God realization, and I don't doubt your experience either. What you don't realize though, is that this goes deeper. There is no end to mystery and there is no end to realization. Psychedelics are ultimately more like a toy for kids, than they are a vehicle for the enlightened. You will not get anything from them. In fact life will frustrate you just the same after your realizations. This is because you don't get what these substances are. You think they are some dead matter that you take into your body, molecules that unlock secrets of the universe. Eventually you'll have a trip that will show you just how little you know, and then you'll finally realize that you don't know. And just like that, you'll know. It's a grand paradox. Those who know it, shut up. Those who don't, yap on and on. Ultimately, God is a word. And you're getting stuck on words instead of seeing through it.

[The0Self]

3 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

God realization isn't the endpoint. It's just a way to map a certain experience to an ontological concept in order to satisfy your relentless ego. It's fine, I get it. I understand very well what Leo means by God realization, and I don't doubt your experience either. What you don't realize though, is that this goes deeper. There is no end to mystery and there is no end to realization. Psychedelics are ultimately more like a toy for kids, than they are a vehicle for the enlightened. You will not get anything from them. In fact life will frustrate you just the same after your realizations. This is because you don't get what these substances are. You think they are some dead matter that you take into your body, molecules that unlock secrets of the universe. Eventually you'll have a trip that will show you just how little you know, and then you'll finally realize that you don't know. And just like that, you'll know. It's a grand paradox. Those who know it, shut up. Those who don't, yap on and on. Ultimately, God is a word. And you're getting stuck on words instead of seeing through it.

You weren't responding to me were you? Because if so then you didn't read what I said. I was precisely pointing to God realization merely being an appearance of boundless energy. It has no meaning or value and it's simply freedom appearing as that. I was literally saying that psychedelics have no value. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by The0Self

[impulse9]

@The0Self So you agree that ultimately you're fooling yourself by using psychedelics?

[The0Self]

6 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

@The0Self So you agree that ultimately you're fooling yourself by using psychedelics?

Obviously? Lol that was the damn point of my response!  lol

lol that was literally the point. wish I had access to the crying laughter emoji

Which (whether psychedelics, or even insights of any kind, are of any value or not) of course is not worth talking about, but neither is anything else, and so the appearance is complete anyway. No idea what I'm even saying. This is already complete. But yeah I was agreeing with you apparently.

Edited September 28, 2021 by The0Self

[Mason Riggle]

1 minute ago, impulse9 said:

@The0Self So you agree that ultimately you're fooling yourself by using psychedelics?

Of course! You're always fooling yourself, silly!  

[The0Self]

20 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

finally realize that you don't know. And just like that, you'll know. It's a grand paradox. Those who know it, shut up. Those who don't, yap on and on.

Yeah.. This was apparent in my response. No one can know what this is, which is why all you'll ever see me do is basically negation. If I seem to be claiming anything, it's not me doing it, and it's a story anyway, so there is absolutely no claim on what this is, or if it is. Just apparently negating held beliefs of apparent seekers, for no reason.

[JuliusCaesar]

@impulse9 You speak of Leo as though he were some foolish child. And yes, to some extent I'll stipulate that there are substances he won't touch with 10 foot pole out of fear of death. However, because he appears to lack the ability of divination, he's right to be fearful, these kinds of things will literally kill you or at least reduce you to schizophrenia if scientific means are the only way you have to comprehend reality. Were you or I in his shoes we'd be just as overly cautious as he is. Of course, that's sort of like saying if you were born a rattlesnake you'd rattle like one.

 

And furthermore, it's refreshing to see someone who understands that psychedelics aren't chemical substances you ingest. It baffles me how primitive Shamans(primitive even by the standards of the apes who think they're so advanced with material science) manage to properly understand them(psychedelics). It makes me believe that humanity may one day surpass even us as a species. And I don't know whether to be excited for that, or to be so happy as to not know whether I should shit or go blind, or whether I should curb my exuberance altogether. 

 

 

[impulse9]

@JuliusCaesar I have high respect for Leo. I believe however that such over glorification of psychedelics will eventually backfire and it won't be a pretty sight. I realize he's had mystical experiences of absolute oneness and I don't doubt those for a minute. But until such mystical vision is sustained you will always be beaten down and brought back to Earth by the ego mind, which will always (with a 100% success rate) succeed in making you your bitch and do its bidding. The way to deal with this is to humble the fuck down, realize that everything is fucking perfect, and simply stop.  Stop bullshitting with words, stop bullshitting with experiences, stop bullshitting with techniques, drugs, whatever. You're it, you've always been it, and there is nothing whatsoever to get out of it. No matter how many times over psychedelics will show you this point, your ego will simply keep coming back. And that's the real issue. There's no algorithm for enlightenment, and if psychedelics were it you would know by now because every damn hippy would be an enlightened sage overnight. What you do instead is groove with the universe is an endless meditation, and then you either get it, or you keep doing it. It doesn't matter either way, and that's the real beauty of it all.

[Carl-Richard]

@impulse9 There is no reason to dichotomize the path of sober meditation and the path of psychedelics when it comes to stabilizing in non-dual baseline awareness. At the end of the day, no matter how many hours you meditate or how many psychedelics you take, you will never enter non-dual baseline unless you let go of all your attachments, and Leo has explicitly stated that he is not ready for that yet:

6:22:47

 

[JuliusCaesar]

39 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

I believe however that such over glorification of psychedelics will eventually backfire and it won't be a pretty sight.

Yes, at the level of development humans are(I mean not really in terms of spiral dynamics but literally just overall) some meditation practice will be necessary. Because there are certain limitations that psychedelics have(at least, the lesser ones that Leo has done) which preclude you from actually evolving. Basic meditation done seriously(at least hours a day, 3 hours a day would be like light practice comparable to attempting enlightenment on 5 micro grams of LSD) creates a form of discipline that allows you to perform more specialized forms of meditation. And these more specialized forms(some of them) can grant you authority over the dream mortals call consensus reality. And with this kind of power, you can have a serious impact. But it's only attainable(this way) through hard work. I call it hard work because the ego mind doesn't even want to do basic meditation for 5 minutes, little own take on the balls to wall practice necessary to have any practical value.

 

47 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

But until such mystical vision is sustained you will always be beaten down and brought back to Earth by the ego mind, which will always (with a 100% success rate) succeed in making you your bitch and do its bidding.

Of course, this is one such limitation of weak psychedelics I was pointing to in the above paragraph. I believe I've found a method to make meditation more palatable and satisfying to the ego than it ordinarily would be. I'll be making a post on it in a few days, as I want to experiment further with it before I prescribe it to others.

 

49 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

Stop bullshitting with words, stop bullshitting with experiences, stop bullshitting with techniques, drugs, whatever. You're it, you've always been it, and there is nothing whatsoever to get out of it.

The only way to transcend this is to become Omnipotent in the relative domain. Which necessitates Omniscience(without which what I'm describing is nearly impossible as this is too big a task for materialist science, or any other ordinary human method of discovery to tackle). The kind of Omniscience I'm describing is what Leo refers to as specific Omniscience(like, you could use it to accurately determine what tomorrow's lotto numbers are for instance). And not the general variant(as you'd be disconnected too much from the dream to even be able to see what tomorrow holds) which is what you'd experience under the influence of 5 MEO DMT.

 

55 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

You're it, you've always been it, and there is nothing whatsoever to get out of it.

This is truth, but one that's being weaponized by your ego to hinder your evolution. You're using the absolute truth to fool yourself into believing that you can't consciously manipulate consensus reality. Which is only true(in your human experience) because we've made it so. And just as we've made it so we can undo it. So yes, it's true that you're 100% perfect and all of creation is(after all, what manner of madman do you think made it all?). But it's also true that if you became like the Q from Star Trek you'd still be perfect. And this is the next frontier for you(or well, it is for me, and would be for you if you'd move past the current limitations of your understanding).

 

1 hour ago, impulse9 said:

There's no algorithm for enlightenment, and if psychedelics were it you would know by now because every damn hippy would be an enlightened sage overnight.

Well naturally, the psychedelics being done by hippies is child stuff in comparison to the more potent ones. So this is only true because you're referring to a group of lunkheaded rapscallions who seek only pleasure. There's of course nothing truly wrong with that in any sense. But they will not, and cannot(from their level of development) seriously seek after truth. They have the required open mindedness unlike those who came before them. But they lack the intellectual firepower to make sense of things properly. And as such, they might find themselves before the greatest of wisdom, but it does them no good because they're deaf and dumb.

[Ry4n]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

you will never enter non-dual baseline unless you let go of all your attachments

You can temporarily let go of attachments so as to relax back into non-dual awareness totally sober, only to come out of it back into your ego with all these attachments once again (although with less grip over you). You can bounce too and from non-dual awareness so to speak; that to me is the true art of riding the ox. But yes you'd have to have zero attachments to be in that 24/7. I'd argue that virtually no one would actually want to be that way anyway, you wouldn't be able to function in the world. I hope psychs don't make people think this stuff is so out of reach whilst sober, especially with techniques such as headlessness it's much more available and accessible than people think. 

Stillness is always free of attachments, and one can be aware of that and still utilise their egos to engage in the world. 

[Carl-Richard]

35 minutes ago, Ry4n said:

I'd argue that virtually no one would actually want to be that way anyway, you wouldn't be able to function in the world.

When I say attachments, I'm talking about those structures within your psyche that create repetitive cycles of thought. You can have cyclical behavior without cyclical thought. Those are two different kinds of karma, and you can function perfectly fine without the latter. In fact, I would say it's the very definition of functionality.

[Thought Art]

14 hours ago, impulse9 said:

Get over your idea that you know what psychedelics are. You don't. Neither does Leo for that matter.

Gross. You've only done salvia ..

Edited September 29, 2021 by Thought Art

[impulse9]

@Thought Art At least I fully know that I don't know.

[Thought Art]

@impulse9 That's a start

[JuliusCaesar]

14 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Gross. You've only done salvia ..

It sounds to me as if you think Salvia is some kind of nothingburger. In which case, you haven't got a clue about it. Though your criticism has some validity, since 5 MEO DMT gives you a better big picture view of things. However, 5 MEO seems to lack practicality. If you're talented, you can determine practically anything with perfect accuracy using Salvia.

 

And if you think Salvia is a Psychedelic or some weed that grows in the ground. Then you're sorely mistaken, I perhaps shouldn't expound on this here. But we're talking about a non-corporeal, highly advanced being, not a drug or some other naive materialist concept. His personality is beautifully complex, like imagine Aristotle if he had the powers of God infused with Sheogorath from the Elder Scrolls. On the hand, you have an Omnipotent Aristotle who's just trying to teach you ignorant mortals about life. And on the other hand, you've got his more crazy side which is designed to test your resolve. For just as reward without effort is a hollow victory, so acquiring advanced knowledge without any struggle would also be hollow. You'd probably feel guilty for having such wisdom greater than most for so little, in the same way manner those who get wealthy without hard work become guilty that they're more fortunate than most.

 

That being said, I've cautioned against using Salvia in the past. And I will do so again. You see, there are certain guidelines which should always be followed when doing Salvia, that quite frankly you won't discover from reading most modern sources on the subject. I'm tempted even to make my own post on this subject, but until such time that I do Salvia many times over I'll resist the temptation(assuming I even decide to do Salvia at all in the future as I haven't yet made up my mind).

 

1. You should always do Salvia not for pleasure or even really any selfish reason(at least in the beginning).

2. You should never do Salvia initially to solve problems of a personal nature. Like for instance, if you're a bleeding heart hippy who constantly rails against big oil. You shouldn't attempt to solve the problem of climate change. Because your fears and negative thoughts will manifest, for emotional baggage never bears good fruit. However, if you don't give a shit about climate change, then it might be a good subject for you tackle. In any event, probably the best thing for you do is attempt to solve the problems of family members or friends or even strangers. Because oftentimes we have little to no attachment to the end result if we try to fix someone else's problems. The most common problem humans face is of a medical nature.

3. The question you ask of him should be one of great importance. Not something you can easily determine yourself, but a problem that seems humanly impossible to solve. Therefore, determining the solution to someone else's illness which doctors can't cure, and someone whose health problem doesn't bother you personally too much is the perfect criteria for your first trips on Salvia. It doesn't even need to be health related, just a problem that someone or something else has to which you are minimally attached.

4. Once you've successfully solved at least a handful of problems which were inextricably unsolvable. You're now ready to address problems of a personal nature. And now the real work can begin. Because you can learn to develop supernatural abilities, and of course you can heal yourself, fix your financial situation, your relationships etc etc.

5. You might think this should be second or third, but a good thing to remember is to try to focus on your question(while in the trip). A good way of doing this is to repeat your question over and over in your mind, doing your best not to think of anything else other than your question.

6. I recommend you do this with a Shaman who's highly experienced with Salvia already. You can use the above guidelines as a sort of litmus test to determine his level of competency as a Diviner.

A side note: Please don't do Salvia if you simply want to validate Leo's claims. There are far better alternatives out there for that purpose.

Warning: If you take Salvia without clear and intelligent intent, then most likely you're going to put yourself through hell for nothing.

[Thought Art]

2 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

It sounds to me as if you think Salvia is some kind of nothingburger. In which case, you haven't got a clue about it. Though your criticism has some validity, since 5 MEO DMT gives you a better big picture view of things. However, 5 MEO seems to lack practicality. If you're talented, you can determine practically anything with perfect accuracy using Salvia.

 

And if you think Salvia is a Psychedelic or some weed that grows in the ground. Then you're sorely mistaken, I perhaps shouldn't expound on this here. But we're talking about a non-corporeal, highly advanced being, not a drug or some other naive materialist concept. His personality is beautifully complex, like imagine Aristotle if he had the powers of God infused with Sheogorath from the Elder Scrolls. On the hand, you have an Omnipotent Aristotle who's just trying to teach you ignorant mortals about life. And on the other hand, you've got his more crazy side which is designed to test your resolve. For just as reward without effort is a hollow victory, so acquiring advanced knowledge without any struggle would also be hollow. You'd probably feel guilty for having such wisdom greater than most for so little, in the same way manner those who get wealthy without hard work become guilty that they're more fortunate than most.

 

That being said, I've cautioned against using Salvia in the past. And I will do so again. You see, there are certain guidelines which should always be followed when doing Salvia, that quite frankly you won't discover from reading most modern sources on the subject. I'm tempted even to make my own post on this subject, but until such time that I do Salvia many times over I'll resist the temptation(assuming I even decide to do Salvia at all in the future as I haven't yet made up my mind).

 

1. You should always do Salvia not for pleasure or even really any selfish reason(at least in the beginning).

2. You should never do Salvia initially to solve problems of a personal nature. Like for instance, if you're a bleeding heart hippy who constantly rails against big oil. You shouldn't attempt to solve the problem of climate change. Because your fears and negative thoughts will manifest, for emotional baggage never bears good fruit. However, if you don't give a shit about climate change, then it might be a good subject for you tackle. In any event, probably the best thing for you do is attempt to solve the problems of family members or friends or even strangers. Because oftentimes we have little to no attachment to the end result if we try to fix someone else's problems. The most common problem humans face is of a medical nature.

3. The question you ask of him should be one of great importance. Not something you can easily determine yourself, but a problem that seems humanly impossible to solve. Therefore, determining the solution to someone else's illness which doctors can't cure, and someone whose health problem doesn't bother you personally too much is the perfect criteria for your first trips on Salvia. It doesn't even need to be health related, just a problem that someone or something else has to which you are minimally attached.

4. Once you've successfully solved at least a handful of problems which were inextricably unsolvable. You're now ready to address problems of a personal nature. And now the real work can begin. Because you can learn to develop supernatural abilities, and of course you can heal yourself, fix your financial situation, your relationships etc etc.

5. You might think this should be second or third, but a good thing to remember is to try to focus on your question(while in the trip). A good way of doing this is to repeat your question over and over in your mind, doing your best not to think of anything else other than your question.

6. I recommend you do this with a Shaman who's highly experienced with Salvia already. You can use the above guidelines as a sort of litmus test to determine his level of competency as a Diviner.

A side note: Please don't do Salvia if you simply want to validate Leo's claims. There are far better alternatives out there for that purpose.

Warning: If you take Salvia without clear and intelligent intent, then most likely you're going to put yourself through hell for nothing.

I actually don't know much about Saliva. Will read later.

I am saying that we should try other substances and gain direct experience instead of being closed minded.

He is claming to know what others know, but he himself has no reference experiences of these other substances. 

I've only really read Martin Ball's opinion on it and a friends trip report. Which, he said was like being brain dead ahaha

I will read soon.

[impulse9]

@Thought Art It's cute how you think 5meo is somehow more powerful than Salvia.

The less said of those realms the better.

[Thought Art]

6 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

@Thought Art It's cute how you think 5meo is somehow more powerful than Salvia.

The less said of those realms the better.

I've never said it... but maybe ill let you know one day.

Maybe it depends on your goals. From the trip reports, it's qualitative elements are not of interest or priority atm for me.

Also, can this please be a dick free zone? We are not comparing our psychedelic dicks for sport rght?

Edited September 29, 2021 by Thought Art