Leo's new teaching approach via Psychedelics

[Thought Art]

@GreenWoods I actually think Salvia really scared this person and they are in a survival response to psychedelics. Let's just leave it.

[impulse9]

Lol.  Yes, three hits of 80x salvia makes all other psychedelics look like children's toys. I don't care what it is, Salvia wipes the floor with it. Please note that I do not recommend taking it.

What Salvia has ultimately shown me is that even this whole God consciousness shtick is just more masturbation. It's a good masturbation but ultimately it's masturbation. If you think the mystery ends at God realization, you don't get it. There is no end to the mystery. There can't be, otherwise it wouldn't be - God.

[GreenWoods]

8 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

. Let's just leave it.

Good idea. Been posting way too much today anyway lol.

6 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

. If you think the mystery ends at God realization, you don't get it. There is no end to the mystery. 

Yes, the mystery never ends. Awakening goes infinitely deep.

Edited September 26, 2021 by GreenWoods

[Flowerfaeiry]

6 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

psychedelics are "THE" way into the spiritual world. 

I wouldn't say "THE" way with such difinity but yes, they're up there.

Also, sometimes you have people taking all kinds of psychedelics and they never awaken so it's not like you just ingest mushrooms and become spiritual. You need to have teachers, guides and the right mindset about them. 

[Thought Art]

Drugs are bad  mmmkay

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Thought Art

[Consilience]

Very disappointing that Leo is doubling down on this rhetoric. 

The short story is, psychedelics are not a complete path. There comes a point where all of the state chasing has to come to an end. There comes a point where the duality between a 5meo god consciousness state and the normal mundane experience collapses. It’s actually pretty fucking simple but an ego who is fixated on states, methods, highs, “muh god-realization,” etc., won’t hear this. 

In 10 years, when you’ve slacked off on serious spiritual practice (thousands of hours of silent meditation, contemplation, etc.,) and you still can’t reach these states without drugs, when you still cant recognize the absolute divinity of this very moment, the series meditators will be blissing out on God in any and all states. It is what it is. 
 

 

[Gennadiy1981]

4 hours ago, impulse9 said:

Psychedelics are a potent, magical conversation. That's literally what they are. The fact that you're not conscious that that's what they are, doesn't change things. You won't get anything from them other than magical conversations of various flavors. 5meo is just one of those flavors.

Regarding 5 MEO, its a totally different beast, should I say. Its way more potent than Salvia, and Salvia is pretty much potent. With 5 MEO you totally loose yourself to the Universe as oppose to Salvia which sort of turns you into an object. So the one similarity I can see is that in both instances you blend into one where in Salvia you blend into an object such as a tree or even a water bottle if you happen to hold one whereas with 5 MEO you blend together with God. 5 MEO takes you to a world of non duality, you combine one with the Universe. If you have never done it, you should do it at least once and for some people once maybe all they can handle. I did a full dose once in my life, I really want to do more but I am frightened, its an experience that follows me everyday of my life. No wonder why people nick name it, "God Molecule".

Regarding psychedelics in general, I find them a great tool in self discovery. Are they the only tool, of course not, there are many other tools out there such as holotropic breath work, Kriya yoga, Lucia Lights, float tank and many others which do require tremendous amount of time and psychedelics are more of an express train, not a shortcut, please note that. They can bring you intellectually to an upper level without sort of working on it.

The other day I spoke with one Kabbalists, a Jewish mysticism, a teaching in a deep awakening. The person studies it for over twenty years or even thirty years and in the past, whatever he spoke to me back then, kinda flew over my head, it did not made any sense to me. It was as if he was speaking riddles to me that made no sense no matter how I tried to understand. But after experiencing with psychedelics (I am slightly over a year in this psychedelic business) I totally understood him, indeed many things what he was trying to explain I already knew and thats from 5 MEO. I looked slightly in Kaballah work itself and from few chapters what I read, those sages had God realization themselves. Now, those sages lived over thousand years ago, to me it seems that they did psychedelics themselves but no one knows that. Most likely they did not but whatever they discovered seems so close that I suspect they did tried something. 

[Thought Art]

8 hours ago, Consilience said:

Very disappointing that Leo is doubling down on this rhetoric. 

The short story is, psychedelics are not a complete path. There comes a point where all of the state chasing has to come to an end. There comes a point where the duality between a 5meo god consciousness state and the normal mundane experience collapses. It’s actually pretty fucking simple but an ego who is fixated on states, methods, highs, “muh god-realization,” etc., won’t hear this. 

In 10 years, when you’ve slacked off on serious spiritual practice (thousands of hours of silent meditation, contemplation, etc.,) and you still can’t reach these states without drugs, when you still cant recognize the absolute divinity of this very moment, the series meditators will be blissing out on God in any and all states. It is what it is. 
 

 

Or, you use all the practices at your disposal and stop making false lines between practices. You can do these substances which will skyrocket your growth and still have these other spiritual practices. I think they are all necessary to being conscious. 

It doesn't need to be state chasing. Which, by the sounds of it you are doing with your meditation anyway. Because if you are suffering... of course you are trying to change your state so its just foolish to condemn that.

The peace, bliss and insights from 5meo have only bolstered and advanced my Qigong, journaling/contemplation and sitting practice. Both are still. young and as I progress I am very excited.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Thought Art

[impulse9]

8 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Its way more potent than Salvia

I appreciate your point of view, I really do - but I disagree. Only low doses of Salvia "turn you into an object". Large doses simply show you what's beyond infinity. They show you things you aren't ready for. No one is.

 

8 hours ago, Consilience said:

There comes a point where all of the state chasing has to come to an end.

I agree, and one day you realize that chasing experiences is your ego's doing to begin with.

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

It doesn't need to be state chasing. Which, by the sounds of it you are doing with your meditation anyway. Because if you are suffering... of course you are trying to change your state so its just foolish to condemn that.

The peace, bliss and insights from 5meo have only bolstered and advanced my Qigong, journaling/contemplation and sitting practice. Both are still. young and as I progress I am very excited.

Im happy for you. Keep going dude.
 

Leo’s direct teaching is that is is about state chasing. He’s said this many times, so Im not suggesting anything radical. 

Yes meditation changes my state. Ive started to enter into states via meditation more powerful than small-medium doses of LSD or mushrooms. But meditation has also facilitated a growing detachment with these states, a clarity around the nature of all experiences and the underlying Being, the underlying “God-ness” of any and all states. Sitting in quiet boredom is starting to feel just as satisfying and divine as having my body dissolve into boundless space.

The fact that Leo and many of the forum are so hung up about increasing one‘s state without holding in equal space the necessity of am equilibrium beyond states, a non-dualiry, is a huge blindspot. Those who are serious about the work will recognize it.

[Vibroverse]

You're imagining that Leo made a video saying that ?

[Gennadiy1981]

@Consilience and @Thought Art you really are both right and speak of the same and for some reason you still arguing. Look psychedelics are just a tool and not to be hung on them. However most people do need them to get a boost of awakening, as at least for myself, there is no way I could have elevated to such level as I did before. I never mediated before and it was just a waste of my time because no matter what I did, i never succeeded but after trying psychedelics the meditation become as easy as clicking fingers. But of course in the long run you are the medicine you should be able to reach that state of mind all on your own. Yes you can use a bit to help out but the e tire thing what Leo is also saying is that psyched,Eric’s boost you expressingly. For instance if you want to get to even higher eleven and you can’t, you take them, get to that level and then start working from there and so on.

@Consilience you say that you can naturally mediate and get into a state of your body dissolvement? That’s deep, what exactly you do if you don’t mind asking.

[The Rainmaker]

19 hours ago, impulse9 said:

@GreenWoods I disagree that psychedelics wake you up. I disagree even that they are tools. They are simply entities which you choose to interact with, they offer an interesting chat but that's about it.

You're more than this. You're more than even God because even God is a concept. You are beyond concepts, and that's the whole point. And you don't need psychedelics to awaken to this fact. The only real use for psychedelics is when someone is stuck in so much ego concrete that nothing else could  possibly ever shake it from that position. In one sense they appear to be useful for our western civilization because we've all strayed so far from the ineffable truth that we sometimes need a stark reminder of our true powers. But this power is yours already, you've just forgotten about it.

Even in Leo's own language, you're the one who's inventing these psychedelics. Do you understand that? You are more powerful than the substance.

I know I've interacted with you before on here but I've overcome biological obstacles through the usage of psychedelics. I have a rare brain anomaly and I've overcome suicidal ideations, selective mutism, abnormal eye movements, etc. from psychedelics. I've even stood up to my parents about abuse. It's ridiculous to act as though a drug that aids neuroplasticity isn't a tool.

[Gennadiy1981]

5 hours ago, impulse9 said:

I appreciate your point of view, I really do - but I disagree. Only low doses of Salvia "turn you into an object". Large doses simply show you what's beyond infinity. They show you things you aren't ready for. No one is.

I never tried Salvia so I can’t really debate on it but only was sitting next to people who did and saw first hand reports. But regardless you really should try 5 MEO to judge for yourself, many people say that it’s the most strongest substance known to humans. But on the other hand, pretty much most psychedelics taken at high dose do lead you to outside creation and God realization. From my small experience and dealing with different doses, the high doses do lead to one conclusion and that’s ego death and blending with God.

[impulse9]

@The Rainmaker A hammer is a tool. A psychedelic is an entity. You wouldn't call a horse a tool, either. I've benefitted enormously from them as well, I simply believe that they're not going to ever wake you up.

@Gennadiy1981 You still come down from it.  And Salvia still wipes the floor with it, whatever it may be. 5meo may show you that you're God, but Salvia shows you that even that is a delusion. Salvia shows you that the only thing you can really say about reality, is nothing. It breaks every concept you have, including God. There is simply nothing left to say after that. In short, Salvia shows you that nobody knows anything, we're all a bunch of idiots really.

And you can go full Leo and say, oh well that's just God imagining things. Well, no. It's not. It's too mysterious, too powerful, too alien, and too ancient. It's a force that transcends our best guesses. And God is just one our best guesses.

Enlightenment does the same. It transcends our best guesses.

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

@Consilience and @Thought Art you really are both right and speak of the same and for some reason you still arguing. Look psychedelics are just a tool and not to be hung on them. However most people do need them to get a boost of awakening, as at least for myself, there is no way I could have elevated to such level as I did before. I never mediated before and it was just a waste of my time because no matter what I did, i never succeeded but after trying psychedelics the meditation become as easy as clicking fingers. But of course in the long run you are the medicine you should be able to reach that state of mind all on your own. Yes you can use a bit to help out but the e tire thing what Leo is also saying is that psyched,Eric’s boost you expressingly. For instance if you want to get to even higher eleven and you can’t, you take them, get to that level and then start working from there and so on.

@Consilience you say that you can naturally mediate and get into a state of your body dissolvement? That’s deep, what exactly you do if you don’t mind asking.

I think it's just over some nuances.

The amount of time I have agree/argued with spiritual people is hilarious. We agree but don't at the same time it's interesting. There are so many nuances to spirituality and what people are seeing it as and what they want over it. Though, each week a seeker changes so its just a current..

I find after a trip I just want to hug everyone around me, to see my friends for the first time. To play with my brothers and sisters and to live in harmony and creativity forever. But, not everyone feels that way at humanities level of development. People are scared of love. Sometimes during I just want to hug people so much... I just want to hug...connect and be without all these boundaries' we have. Let's dance naked and share secrets and develop ourselves wooo! (That is my inner tantrica) But, I've learned you need to lay still and ask for hugs afterward. 

I am still early on my journey btw. I have ups and downs but am grateful for all the tools I collect and as I learn to use them maturely. I think I finally understand what 5meo Isn't. As it was creating a lot of metaphyiscal questions for me in combination with ego, and Leo's teachings confusing me. But, I sense I am integrating these experience in a much mature light than I had been. 

Safety should be the first and foremost concern. Go slow.

What is great about 5meo is just how clean it is and how short the trip is. I don't want to trip for 8 hours, or have all the mental distortions of mushrooms at this stage in my life. I just want to connect to infinity, love, integrate, journal, maybe cry a few times and tell those around me how much I love and respect them.

It's important to have people around you who are mature enough to hold space with you, and who want to experience the love as well. Some people just aren't ready or mature enough to share that space... People who wont demonize you for taking it. Or hit you or something while tripping.

I've had some scary experiences where my ego was scared, but the vast majority have been very positive. It's amazing how free you feel afterward. So accepted, loved and playful even for me. I can become really playful I find too. It's interesting. Still learning.

I've noticed that there are many layers to a 5meo experience depending on dosage etc,

Really, I think the experience will make the world a much better, more loving place.

It does need to be used maturely as it's very strong. But, also very loving. I think I am still wrapping my head around it.

It has shown me a love that will guide my life. I really love all you folks. Forever.

For science! for Love!

Edited September 27, 2021 by Thought Art

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

@Consilience you say that you can naturally mediate and get into a state of your body dissolvement? That’s deep, what exactly you do if you don’t mind asking.

Ive done a combination of techniques outlined in the book “The Mind Illuminated,” Rob Burbea’s Jhana retreat, Shinzen Young’s See Hear Feel vipassana technique, self inquiry/contemplation based on the work of Peter Ralston, Zen “do nothing”/shikantaza meditation, and loving kindness metta practices. Ive done 3 meditation retreats and a couple of Cheng Hsin workshops. Ive also aggressively used psychedelics/weed in the past.

All have contributed to where Im at right now. 

Biggest “boost” to practice was learning how to go deep with concentration practices like the jhanas. Once I was able to go deep with jhanas, my first vipassana retreat radically deconstructed all sense of reality, time, and space. Ever since then meditation has regularly induced drug like effects, only increasing. 

Lately Ive been doing the “do nothing” technique primarily. Just sitting and letting reality do whatever it wants with as little interference as possible. Body sensations, sights, sounds tend to dissolve into spacious fluidity, become boundless. When eyes are closed Emptiness becomes particularly apparent. 

[Thought Art]

See, more than having some state I want to be a highly effective, spiritually mature and powerful creator in the world. The states are just aspects of this path for me. I want to know truth from falsehood, to have a high level of understanding of human psychology and social dynamics. I want to have a powerful understanding of personal and business finance. I want to understand and integrate my shadow. To be loving, mature, balanced, wise, clear minded, grounded, creative, fearless etc.

Psychedelics are tools to aid me in the progress.. It's just obvious at this point to me. Someone not using them wont be able to do what I am doing because they simply can't see what I see.

I am developing into a healer through my traditional chinese medicine/ Qigong/ Tao Yin path I am on. As well as Yoga, breathwork etc. I am near finish my Qigong certification and will begin breathwork and yoga soon. 

I also want to create a massive map of all the embodiment practices and turn it into a business that contributes to the well being of thousands of people. 

I want to help people learn to love themselves, others, to do shadow work, to forgive themselves and others and to develop powerful systems for living which are not widely known by people in society.

My awakenings though, they don't gaurantee any of this sort of thing... There is a lot of work for my Avatar to do... 5meo showed me so much about my lack of body awareness.

I just want to know and be grounded in the highest understanding of reality as possible. Which, I think goes beyond intellect but also includes it.

People simply aren't aware of how their bodies and mind works. So, I want to provide tools as I collect them. This is what Though Art is.

I am just really early in my process and still working through my own ego, fears, and immaturity. 

I want you to be okay. Whoever you are.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Thought Art

[Blackhawk]

You know what..

When I finally force myself to become drunk, and when I'm finally drunk, then I'm happy that I forced myself to become drunk. Because being drunk is awesome.

Maybe it's like that with psychedelics.

I still have many years left to force myself to take psychedelics again.

[Thought Art]

2 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

You know what..

When I finally force myself to become drunk, and when I'm finally drunk, then I'm happy that I forced myself to become drunk. Because being drunk is awesome.

Maybe it's like that with psychedelics.

I still have many years left to force myself to take psychedelics again.

Lol, Drunk