WonderSeeker

Deep shame

25 posts in this topic

Have any of you ever had a state of feeling deep shameful feelings that just smacked you out of the blue? 

Last night I was about to go out with friends but took a detour away from the venue, as I began feeling paranoid and submissive towards people. I felt shame about who I was, and this came with feelings of division with other people to the point where I couldn't even look people in the eye. Since I've done lots of meditation, psychedelic trips, and binaural beats in the past couple of years, this state was imbued with a sense of no-self. Honestly, the no-self was less scary than the shame, because the shame is a part of this deep interpersonal shadow that I have due to traumas I accrued as a kid, mainly through bullying.

Has anyone had a similar experience? This was really scary and I'm still trying to make sense of what this was and why it happened so suddenly.

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Salutations WonderSeeker,

 

It just saddens me that young people with plenty of potential ahead still find themselves in such situations today, despite the internet age.  I think if we could exchange our perspectives for a minute that would remove a lot of weight on most shoulders, because from where i stand all persons are basically beautiful and hence wasting one's best years this simply feels kind of futile since i know the passage of time makes many similar concerns quite relative, eventually.  But i also understand how it hurts when pain gets denied and no healing appears possible, one option being to look around for better and worse then compare (e.g. a spontaneous urge).  Maybe it's a test of Nature not even really specific to 1 individual:  YOU.

 

Evolution alone proved again and again that humanity was better off with diversity;  a civilization of clones would expose itself to a serious risk of extinction in the immunology department and more, also consider our brains ain't capable of omnipotence, so far, or at least we may need to wait for the human species to transform for that and hence it boils down to everybody reaching much the same limits + variations of degree, but in the end an hypothetical external observer might happen not to perceive the subtle nuances - the same as i'd fail to gather how one young individual differs from the next enough to call it "shame".  Yet, there again denial of these sensations won't help it as it's actually a test we all go through one generation after the next;  one variable having to do with creativity, another the fulfilment of basic human needs.  So i wish there were an easy way to convince you the sense of shame will plumet after a while, that the crisis usually resolves almost naturally.

 

My hope for you is that no predators detect that instant of vulnerability pretending to enter into your head and offer to fix/sort it almost magically.

 

Our emotional/affective brains have neuro-plasticity built in, perhaps it's one of those times when the mind walks ahead of Nature.  What if self-expression is all your animal side has been waiting for!  Lets suppose every new day lacks small "victories", it would be no surprize to become depressed - meaning the remedy could be to see that new accomplishments add up even the small ones.  The spectrum of resources & talents is such you've got some fair alternatives to explore, for example i'd point out everyone knows how to laugh:  at 1st the mood ain't there but one may realize the animal side ain't built for eternal sorrow.  Well, that would be passive unless the joking man is you, a more dynamic scenario being to feature each passing day with a moment of satisfaction, then two, three...  Until the morosity is chased away by natural reflexes.  Now if you've explored the human mind already then maybe it's time to consider putting some diversity in the tool box.  Laugh, sing!  Go fishing, litterally...  For me the need to develop creativity has been a long-time companion as each tiny success helps to balance the rest, so i can only wish you find your own path!

 

Briefly put, if it's a natural process which went on for milleniums then it's no longer because of you alone.  Possibly the shame belongs to external factors as well and we're all responsible to improve the trade-offs through the passage of generations, having to deal with the necessities of life in hope someday society's evolution shall level off the bumps along everyone's road to hapiness.

 

Good day, have fun!!  B|

Edited by Egzoset

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@Egzoset You're a poetic writer.

No, after contemplating today I realized that the shame-fest I endured was directly connected to long-standing interpersonal issues in me. I accrued tons of social traumas as a child (including literally YEARS of bullying at school, which I hid from my family). Since then (over the past 10 years) I've been working on getting better at seduction/dating and social life. It's been a super painful journey, and today I came to the conclusion that I psychologically wronged many people (especially women) in the past 10 years. 

I have prided myself on integrity all the while, but last night's sudden experience forced me to admit that I wasn't being as saintly as I thought I was. I AM the devil. 

When I first watched this episode over a year ago, I could sort of intellectually get it.

Now, I REALLY get it. For those of you reading, actually seeing and especially feeling your very own devilry is a whole different game. You never would have thought that it was you all along!

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@WonderSeeker One trick to try with shame is bring up unconscious anger, make it touchable. Make it a zen to punch the wall 

Edited by lmfao

Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough.

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3 hours ago, WonderSeeker said:

For those of you reading, actually seeing and especially feeling your very own devilry is a whole different game. You never would have thought that it was you all along!

Does feeling your devilry make you feel shameful? Or does the understanding negate that? 

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I guess I'm asking because I assume a lot of devilry in myself "just in case" I'm hurting someone but then this turns into self-blame which feels shameful I think. idk! what does shame feel like in your body? 

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I think the emotion of shame comes up when we are in a situation where the person we think we are - or we think we should be - does not align with the reality of the situation.

 So an easy example; you think you are highly competent at your job, but you make a stupid mistake. Shame can come up because you are attached to your self image as a highly competent person. The mistake you made does not align with that image, so within that dissonance you experience an emotion like shame. 
 

Of course the solution to minimize feelings of shame is not to become neurotic about making mistakes to keep up  that image of high competency. Even though that is what probably most people do in some way. It’s a natural coping mechanism, but it’s not really sustainable.

 

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shame is such a weird feeling

i also often feel shame for other people but also for myself,  it's so useless  :P 

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I think what you need to do is grieve. Shame from past trauma that derailed your life is a bit like death. It's something unfair that you can't go back and change. Grieve over it then put it behind you. Then it's just part of your history, something you can use to grow. Getting bullied in school was a gift. It made me independent, gave me an outside perspective. If they had accepted me I would be one of them today. Asleep. 

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I have often, and there's been times where I've felt a vicious circle between guilt and shame, guilty because of the shame, and then shameful because of the guilt, and cannot look people in the eye, head sunken low, feeling awful and dirty about my being amongst others, and a weird sense of embarrassment in social environments with a desire to isolate myself,

I even meditated and envisioned myself sitting in a corner alone and I had this weird fixation on why I wasn't normal and a worry perhaps I don't consider about others' well-being as often as I should do, instead of the selfish fixation on myself.

Contemplating - why am I so focused on myself in a peculiar manner and unable to put it into proper words or explain it to someone wiser for better understanding and integration. I recognize this sensation of shame as mentioned, and it’s been on my nerves at times because I can't identify where exactly it is coming from, what impact it has on my life and ways to go about changing it, so as to look beyond this awkward fixation that lingers over myself and the weird feelings I have lurking within - And then the sensation, too, perhaps it is a waste of my time dealing with it. The shame perhaps inhabited years of inwardly fixations that don't help with social environments I am intimately connected with in all given moments,

Yes, and I think this feeling also has a low vibration to it, so its not exactly the highest and most vitalizing energy one could potentially experience, and if others feel guilt or shame the way I myself do on peculiar occasions, is it sort of common for humans during our day and age, I'm unsure about how others deal with it if at all; hence sharing insights in this thread will help clear up such questions ...

Polite regards,

Edited by Yeah Yeah

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22 hours ago, Gianna said:

Does feeling your devilry make you feel shameful? Or does the understanding negate that? 

I was confronted with the devilry to such a high degree through a sort of psycho-physical suffering that there was no avoiding it; it was as if I was FORCED to admit it. Hell, I was having dreams of past girlfriends in the nights leading up to the experince. The funny part is I relived devilish acts in the dreams!

22 hours ago, Gianna said:

I guess I'm asking because I assume a lot of devilry in myself "just in case" I'm hurting someone but then this turns into self-blame which feels shameful I think. idk! what does shame feel like in your body? 

I huge insight that I had in reflecting on the experience is this: you know when you're being devilish because you will feel like you're doing something wrong in the moment, even though you usually can't logically deduce what it is. Like, you'll literally get this 'dirty' feeling in your body or mind that says "I think I'm doing something wrong." Watch out for it!

21 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

it's so useless  :P 

I'd say it's only useless if you don't learn from it! 

4 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Wonderful, thanks.

3 hours ago, Late Boomer said:

I think what you need to do is grieve. Shame from past trauma that derailed your life is a bit like death. It's something unfair that you can't go back and change. Grieve over it then put it behind you. Then it's just part of your history, something you can use to grow. Getting bullied in school was a gift. It made me independent, gave me an outside perspective. If they had accepted me I would be one of them today. Asleep. 

Yes, I actually whole-heartedly agree with everything you wrote.

2 hours ago, Yeah Yeah said:

"[V]icious circle between guilt and shame, guilty because of the shame."

Yep, there was definitely a "meta-" quality to the experience I had. For example, I texted somebody local, letting them know I was having this psychotic experience. I felt so guilty about sending the text, because I knew they were going out to have fun that night and I didn't want to take away from that, that it took me 30 minutes just to send the text. 

2 hours ago, Yeah Yeah said:

Yes, and I think this feeling also has a low vibration to it, so its not exactly the highest and most vitalizing energy one could potentially experience, and if others feel guilt or shame the way I myself do on peculiar occasions, is it sort of common for humans during our day and age, I'm unsure about how others deal with it if at all; hence sharing insights in this thread will help clear up such questions ...

Yeah, the experience sucked, but I applied lots of mindfulness and non-judgement to it. I also introspected on it the day after, and now I feel amazing. Take the view that if tended to properly, anti-blissful, low-vibe experiences can be a good thing in the long-run :) 

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22 hours ago, vizual said:

I think the emotion of shame comes up when we are in a situation where the person we think we are - or we think we should be - does not align with the reality of the situation.

wow I think this is genius @vizual
 

21 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

shame is such a weird feeling

what does it feel like to you in your body? for me it happens in the gut. I think. it's so elusive 

 

14 minutes ago, WonderSeeker said:

feel like you're doing something wrong in the moment,

oooo. yes. I think that's definitely it for me too. but it also translates in the body. like that same exact feeling you describe in the quote but actually in the body. for me it is in the gut. thank you! 

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1 hour ago, Gianna said:

what does it feel like to you in your body? for me it happens in the gut. I think. it's so elusive 

it's pretty hard to describe but i think i get a hot head like blush a bit and feel a bit weak in general, and also a bit in the stomach heart etc. 

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@PurpleTree Yes, an itchiness around the cheeks, somewhat going red, whole body tingles and burns up ... am I explaining shame? I think so, I can imagine it now hahaha

 

Edited by Yeah Yeah

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6 minutes ago, Yeah Yeah said:

@PurpleTree Yes, an itchiness around the cheeks, somewhat going red, whole body tingles and burns up ... am I explaining shame? I think so, I can imagine it now hahaha

 

yea i think so, it's also accompanied by a feeling of  "awkwardness" like not knowing how to act or what to do

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Have you tried shadow work? 

Try it and get to the root of it 

 


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On 9/25/2021 at 10:05 PM, vizual said:

I think the emotion of shame comes up when we are in a situation where the person we think we are - or we think we should be - does not align with the reality of the situation.

Precisely, it's a break in integrity. Having integrity is all about alignment.

13 hours ago, Gianna said:

what does it feel like to you in your body? for me it happens in the gut. I think. it's so elusive

For me I get a sensation in my heart and throat areas. I was bullied much during my belongingness (heart chakra) & self-esteem (throat chakra) stages of development. 

11 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

yea i think so, it's also accompanied by a feeling of  "awkwardness" like not knowing how to act or what to do

Yo I get that too! It's so sneaky, because you feel like something is off, but you don't know what it is. 

9 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Have you tried shadow work? 

Try it and get to the root of it 

Yep, that's the plan.

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guilt guilt guilt. hmmmm
Okay I can feel something in my experience, maybe try to hold some space for it before thinking about it- yeah nope, not possible because the mind always moves. 
If you don't reject that it's impossible to view something independent of thinking you'll reach a standstill of no variation, see this and you'll be in no man's land  

Now I've got to find a way to carry this through, 

Edited by lmfao

Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough.

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