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Just How much of reality is imaginary

32 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, The0Self said:

That's true, it can be a distraction thinking that the truth is not lost, but ultimately... It's actually true. This is the absolute. Not that amazing realizations can't seem to take place. It's just that, that does not need to happen "in order for" (the great delusion) ultimate liberation to be what it already is: ALL there is.

Correct, nothing needs to happen.   But there are other states of consciousness that can be accessed beyond the one we are in right now.   It's not better or worse, it just IS.  But what reality IS, is a Miracle :)

 


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

you can BE the Truth, which is beyond the conceptual level.

Truth is a concept/label . It implies falsehood. There aren't any falsehood.  So there aren't any truth either. There is only what's happening. Infinity. 

The conceptual level is truth as is the no-conceptual level. 

You  can't contain infinity in a single word. Or a single understanding or way of approaching. So let's not debate it because it's utterly futile. 

Let go of the need to smash labels onto infinity in order to understand it and manipulate it and see what happens. You would see that even "Truth" is imaginary. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Someone here

I live my life in a dream; the constant threat of a rude awakening keeps me on my toes.
-Mettley Zimmer

 

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32 minutes ago, Someone here said:

NOTICE.. 

1 you are imagining that this is waking reality based on the possibility of flying. Maybe that's the dream reality where you can't fly and the night time dreams are the "real" reality where you can fly. Notice that you pick one over the other without any justifications whatsoever. 

2 of course it's a belief. Even if you try it 100 times.. You still can't be certain that you can't fly next time.  You constantly need to imagine causality and consistency to come to a conclusion. 

Exactly. Time is completely imaginary. In the sense that you assume that it stops to create a "present moment". There is no present moment obviously because reality is constantly changing. Yet you need to imagine a static "present moment" to ground yourself against this constant change. 

Needless to say when we talk about jumping off a cliff.. That's in the future.. And the future is completely imagination and hypothetical.  Whether you talk about a parent moment or future events.. In both cases you are imagining time. 

I am aware that it is the same me that is Knowing a dream at night and waking reality, so both of these can be seen as states happening to me, awareness, and from this pov, reality is neither of them, but the one who knows them.

However, we are here to talk about why in the waking state there appears to be much more continuity, more logic and meaning, consequences and much less of an ability to change things as you wish at the snap of a finger... It requires a lot more effort to do something in waking reality for example when in dream reality you can just wish it into existence right there and then. 

It is intuitively seen that there are forces other than my imagination at play in waking reality, simply by examining my experience.  

Next time you dream, try to read something.  In dreams the logical side of your mind is asleep and so you don't vibe with things like reading and chess for example. I have playes countless chess games and I am yet to dream anything related to it, simply because it is so logical. 

 

In theory, your comments are very profound and nondual. In practice,  you wouldn't jump off a cliff due to not believing in the reality of time, as you will be afraid of pain. As Johnny Cash famously sings "pain, the only thing that's real"


Unity Makes Strength.                       Flag of Russia -> White Blue Red (tricolour)-> Blue + Red = Purple (Leo is originally from Russia)
Съединението Прави Силата. Flag of Bulgaria -> White Green Red (tricolour)-> Green + Red = Yellow (Gold) (Bulgaria looks like a Leo on the map)
Flag of Sierra Leone -> Green White Blue (tricolour) -> Green + Blue = Cyan (Sierra Leone has Leo in the name)   Purple ++ Yellow ++ Cyan = White.

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11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Truth is a concept/label . It implies falsehood. There aren't any falsehood.  So there aren't any truth either. There is only what's happening. Infinity. 

The conceptual level is truth as is the no-conceptual level. 

 

I'm not saying all of this isn't Truth.   Reality is One, so of course it is right here.   

I'm simply saying that right now what you are stating in your post is only known to you at the conceptual/imaginary/belief level, but there is something prior to that which is Actuality, as you also stated in your post.  And you can actually be Actuality itself (you can call it mysticism, or spirituality)  

Or maybe you have had a mystical experience in which the subject/object duality colllapsed and you became the present moment, or you became actuality itself?

I don't know, but those who haven't can fall into the belief that mysticism/spirituality is just imaginary, when, oh no, its Actual!


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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On 2021-05-02 at 6:54 PM, Someone here said:

However your consciousness of the present moment is actual. regardless of whether you deny perception/consciousness, it’s here, it’s primary, it’s completely undeniable. 

Yes this is it.

 

On 2021-05-02 at 6:54 PM, Someone here said:

The truth of the matter is that any thought cannot be Absolutely True due to the nature of thoughts existing as functions of time which is of course an illusion constructed by the mind.. the fact that thoughts are symbolic representations of reality (the map is not the territory).. and finally.. the fact that all reason and rationality will always dissolve into an infinite regress of reason where one must eventually concede that they’re taking on a belief. 

Yes. Surrender those thoughts

 

On 2021-05-02 at 6:54 PM, Someone here said:

My point is.. Almost 90 % of your reality has nothing to do with reality. It's imaginary.  But as you can see...these imaginations are so important to your sense of reality and to your stability and functionality.. Without the imagination of the external world and of consistency you might have a mental breakdown. That explains why it's hard to see through the illusion and awaken to the truth

The belief that it's hard makes it hard. 

 

Everything you said are pointers. There is no reality to it. There is nowhere to rest your head.


He has no will of his own.
He dwells in reality,
and lets all illusions go.

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2 hours ago, Dodo said:

I am aware that it is the same me that is Knowing a dream at night and waking reality, so both of these can be seen as states happening to me, awareness, and from this pov, reality is neither of them, but the one who knows them.

However, we are here to talk about why in the waking state there appears to be much more continuity, more logic and meaning, consequences and much less of an ability to change things as you wish at the snap of a finger... It requires a lot more effort to do something in waking reality for example when in dream reality you can just wish it into existence right there and then. 

It is intuitively seen that there are forces other than my imagination at play in waking reality, simply by examining my experience.  

Next time you dream, try to read something.  In dreams the logical side of your mind is asleep and so you don't vibe with things like reading and chess for example. I have playes countless chess games and I am yet to dream anything related to it, simply because it is so logical. 

 

In theory, your comments are very profound and nondual. In practice,  you wouldn't jump off a cliff due to not believing in the reality of time, as you will be afraid of pain. As Johnny Cash famously sings "pain, the only thing that's real"

NOTICE each time you mentioned "waking reality" as if it's a given.  Notice that when you are dreaming you also assume that the Dream world is "waking reality" until you wake up.  If you are being honest..you have no idea what this experience right now is. You imagine dreams at night to contrast it with so that you can define it as "waking reality".  But this is fantasy. 

NOTICE that when you are inside of a Dream.. It seems logical and consistent untill you wake up. Only then you judge it as incoherent. 

 


I live my life in a dream; the constant threat of a rude awakening keeps me on my toes.
-Mettley Zimmer

 

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

NOTICE each time you mentioned "waking reality" as if it's a given.  Notice that when you are dreaming you also assume that the Dream world is "waking reality" until you wake up.  If you are being honest..you have no idea what this experience right now is. You imagine dreams at night to contrast it with so that you can define it as "waking reality".  But this is fantasy. 

NOTICE that when you are inside of a Dream.. It seems logical and consistent untill you wake up. Only then you judge it as incoherent. 

 

Notice what you say is wrong! You can indeed become aware within a dream that you're dreaming - its called lucid dreaming. It is exactly because the logical part of your mind is sleeping that you dont immediately realise its a dream when something weird happens, but there ar many ways /techbiques to gain lucidity within a dream and once you do so, you have absolute freedom and you can do all sort of magic like flying and whatever else you want. 

Now if we bring this to waking reality, maybe it is harder to become lucid in, cause I cant remember last time I saw someone fly, let alone myself! 

Notice that what you told me to notice is not factual, but your belief based on having limited experience with dreams, what is possible and why. 

I've read a spiritual book about dreama and reality, it was the first spiritual book I ever picked up 5 years ago, its my main game.

 

 

Edited by Dodo

Unity Makes Strength.                       Flag of Russia -> White Blue Red (tricolour)-> Blue + Red = Purple (Leo is originally from Russia)
Съединението Прави Силата. Flag of Bulgaria -> White Green Red (tricolour)-> Green + Red = Yellow (Gold) (Bulgaria looks like a Leo on the map)
Flag of Sierra Leone -> Green White Blue (tricolour) -> Green + Blue = Cyan (Sierra Leone has Leo in the name)   Purple ++ Yellow ++ Cyan = White.

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@Dodo you are not appreciating the depth of the problem. 

 

1. Dreams appear real so as the waking state. Why do you then call the waking state the "real world" while ignoring dreams as mere fantasy?  How do you justify that bias? Maybe you are dreaming while awake and awake while dreaming? How do you decide which one is "the real world"? 

2. Becoming lucid in a dream only to wake up doesn't prove that you are now in the waking state. Ever woke up from one dream to enter another dream?  Maybe the so called waking reality is just the next level of dreaming and you have yet to wake up from? Maybe there is no end to Dream levels? 

 


I live my life in a dream; the constant threat of a rude awakening keeps me on my toes.
-Mettley Zimmer

 

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

Truth is a concept/label . It implies falsehood. There aren't any falsehood.  So there aren't any truth either. There is only what's happening. Infinity. 

The conceptual level is truth as is the no-conceptual level. 

You  can't contain infinity in a single word. Or a single understanding or way of approaching. So let's not debate it because it's utterly futile. 

Let go of the need to smash labels onto infinity in order to understand it and manipulate it and see what happens. You would see that even "Truth" is imaginary. 

 

 

 

 

This one appears to get it.

No one actually gets it.

There is no one.

Edited by The0Self

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4 hours ago, Someone here said:

Truth is a concept/label . It implies falsehood. There aren't any falsehood.  So there aren't any truth either. There is only what's happening. Infinity. 

The conceptual level is truth as is the no-conceptual level. 

You  can't contain infinity in a single word. Or a single understanding or way of approaching. So let's not debate it because it's utterly futile. 

Let go of the need to smash labels onto infinity in order to understand it and manipulate it and see what happens. You would see that even "Truth" is imaginary. 

 

The finger pointing to the moon is not the moon.

Stop obsessing about the god damn finger.


Can you bite your own teeth?  --  “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.

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12 minutes ago, Victor van Rijn said:

 

«I don't put up with that shit so ...»

???


Spirituality is not the renunciation of life

It is the art of living fully

 

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