Unable to Forgive Myself

[xxxx]

I hope this is the appropriate sub-forum.

 

This happened a month ago.

I hurt someone I deeply care about in the midst of an argument, because a certain point was raised that triggered some past hurt. While this person’s intention wasn’t bad, they should’ve been more thoughtful regarding the situation. 

I sought forgiveness for my reaction, and did make things better; everything is alright, and I’m sure the other person doesn’t even think about this anymore, but I still feel guilty. 

I am not someone who hurts people emotionally - at least, I try my best not to.   

However, in this particular situation, I am finding it difficult to forgive myself because I used certain harsh words, which resulted in the person crying. 

Your insights will be appreciated.

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by xxxx

[Eldra]

we all have our own pace and perspective, and i think perspective is such an important thing when it comes to forgiveness.
most of us are humans and we make mistakes, it's part of the package
one month is just a few weeks, with more time it's going to very slowly ease up
there's no real good way to know if the other person thinks about it or not, everyone thinks a bit about everything, it's great that you've made things alright with them again

there's a very big difference on someone who hurts people and someone who tries not to hurt people, you're very much not someone who goes around hurting people on purpose, people being hurt is also a more complex thing, you can't blame yourself all that much, more just the situation, the mood, the event itself, the energy, the tension. Like it just was, it isn't right now, so it wasn't quite you is what i mean

just run through it a few times in your mind, i'm sure you've already done that, but instead of trying to forgive it, try to let it be, you don't need to change it, imagine a wave from the ocean washing over it, look for signs of care in it, the remorse you feel and the emotions involved is a good sign of care in a way, it shows that you really didn't mean to, you don't need to forgive it as it's part of life, but you do realize that it wasn't quite you and that it's definitely not who you are, it will be alright.

- Eldra

Edited January 4, 2021 by Eldra

[Osaid]

People are constantly changing. Clearly, you are not the same person as before if you feel guilty about what you did. The person who hurt someone's feelings is gone, replaced by someone who would forgo such an action.

[lmfao]

@xxxx A lot of us will have done things in the past we are ashamed of and haven't fully forgiven ourselves for. I know I for one do.

To be honest, I don't really understand what forgiveness is. Whether it's forgiving myself or someone else. 

 

I think a part of forgiveness, whether it's to yourself or to others, comes from understanding everyone's "human-ess". Universal patterns we all fall into. 

I have sometimes seen my own "evil" to be the result of an innocent misunderstanding, of myself and reality. "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do". 

As hard as that is to stomach, when you extrapolate that to all cruelties in the world.

[lmfao]

Also for practical advice, maybe try using this video, and applying the forgiveness to  yourself rather than someone else.

I know I definitely need to try this again, and learn how to do the technique without a guided video. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by lmfao

[Mu_]

3 hours ago, xxxx said:

I hope this is the appropriate sub-forum.

 

This happened a month ago.

I hurt someone I deeply care about in the midst of an argument, because a certain point was raised that triggered some past hurt. While this person’s intention wasn’t bad, they should’ve been more thoughtful regarding the situation. 

I sought forgiveness for my reaction, and did make things better; everything is alright, and I’m sure the other person doesn’t even think about this anymore, but I still feel guilty. 

I am not someone who hurts people emotionally - at least, I try my best not to.   

However, in this particular situation, I am finding it difficult to forgive myself because I used certain harsh words, which resulted in the person crying. 

Your insights will be appreciated.

 

This all sounds rather innocent and small in the spectrum of horribleness that can happen.  Why can't you move no and forgive yourself.

[xxxx]

@Eldra @Osaid Thank you for your answers. 

@lmfao Thank you! I shall definitely watch the video.

2 hours ago, Mu_ said:

This all sounds rather innocent and small in the spectrum of horribleness that can happen.  Why can't you move no and forgive yourself.

@Mu_ I’ll give a little more context here as to why this thing has been difficult for me. 

The other person in question here is my mother.

We are all getting old, and so is she - who knows what’s going to happen to whom? After having understood the fragile nature of this human existence, it scares me to think that we can lose someone and not even have the chance to tell how much we love them. I can’t begin to imagine that I hurt her to the extent that she started crying.

What if, the next day, I woke up to something terrible? How could I live with that? How could that be my last memory? 

She has been understanding for the most part (except for the generation gap) - and where I am today is because of her - I am thankful for that.

So in this particular situation, it feels like I was ungrateful to her, and that I could have handled the situation a bit better.

She is genuinely attached to her children; we give her immense hope and can also be the point of immense hurt - we hold that power in her life.

I know what she did was hurtful, albeit unintentionally - but she’s mom, you know? Someone I can very much, literally, take a bullet in the chest for, right now. 

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by xxxx

[egoeimai]

@xxxx to forgive yourself is to love yourself. Love her and love yourself. Because she loves you. 

[Gesundheit]

@xxxx Forgive yourself for not being able to forgive yourself.

[Mu_]

9 hours ago, xxxx said:

@Eldra @Osaid Thank you for your answers. 

@lmfao Thank you! I shall definitely watch the video.

@Mu_ I’ll give a little more context here as to why this thing has been difficult for me. 

The other person in question here is my mother.

We are all getting old, and so is she - who knows what’s going to happen to whom? After having understood the fragile nature of this human existence, it scares me to think that we can lose someone and not even have the chance to tell how much we love them. I can’t begin to imagine that I hurt her to the extent that she started crying.

What if, the next day, I woke up to something terrible? How could I live with that? How could that be my last memory? 

She has been understanding for the most part (except for the generation gap) - and where I am today is because of her - I am thankful for that.

So in this particular situation, it feels like I was ungrateful to her, and that I could have handled the situation a bit better.

She is genuinely attached to her children; we give her immense hope and can also be the point of immense hurt - we hold that power in her life.

I know what she did was hurtful, albeit unintentionally - but she’s mom, you know? Someone I can very much, literally, take a bullet in the chest for, right now. 

 

 

 

Sounds like this is a useful "wound" to motivate you to be better and a reminder to treat your mom and perhaps others with greater kindness.  Try putting your energy in this direction and see if it heals this pain in you....

[Thought Art]

@xxxx I use moments like this to learn more about myself and others and to grow more compassionate. 

I relate though... guilt and shame are things I work with as well. As well as the fear of hurting people again. 

The most powerful thing I do, is give myself that Love. That love I wonder if I deserve anymore because I was mean, I wonder 'do I deserve love'?

You deserve love. That guilt you feel is only a signal to listen to, self correct and keep going!

Edited January 5, 2021 by Thought Art

[hyruga]

It's okay. I forgive you. We are one.

[tsuki]

10 hours ago, xxxx said:

We are all getting old, and so is she - who knows what’s going to happen to whom? After having understood the fragile nature of this human existence, it scares me to think that we can lose someone and not even have the chance to tell how much we love them. I can’t begin to imagine that I hurt her to the extent that she started crying.

@xxxx  It seems like your 'wound' is not really a wound, it's a fear of missing or losing her. I also feel that it is rooted in shame.

You have no obligation whatsoever to your mother with regards to being a certain, pleasant way. You two were fighting and she took part in that fight. She was not a bystander. She is an adult that is capable of regulating her own emotions, healing and forgiving you for what you said. We all say hurtful things when we're in that space, where we're only concerned with our own emotions and needs. While this forum is a spiritually-oriented place and it is common to feel shame with regards to standing our own ground and protecting our boundaries, it is very healthy to be your own precious person. It is okay to protect yourself more than you protect the one's you love. I'm sure that you had reasons for saying the things you did, even if you can't articulate them at the moment.

Remember that she is your mother and she holds all the keys to your traumas and triggers.
It is extremely difficult to remain conscious in the presence of your parents.

1 hour ago, Mu_ said:

Sounds like this is a useful "wound" to motivate you to be better and a reminder to treat your mom and perhaps others with greater kindness.  Try putting your energy in this direction and see if it heals this pain in you....

Terrible advice.
Shaming people into kindness is the quickest route to killing their spirit.

[Mu_]

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

@xxxx  It seems like your 'wound' is not really a wound, it's a fear of missing or losing her. I also feel that it is rooted in shame.

You have no obligation whatsoever to your mother with regards to being a certain, pleasant way. You two were fighting and she took part in that fight. She was not a bystander. She is an adult that is capable of regulating her own emotions, healing and forgiving you for what you said. We all say hurtful things when we're in that space, where we're only concerned with our own emotions and needs. While this forum is a spiritually-oriented place and it is common to feel shame with regards to standing our own ground and protecting our boundaries, it is very healthy to be your own precious person. It is okay to protect yourself more than you protect the one's you love. I'm sure that you had reasons for saying the things you did, even if you can't articulate them at the moment.

Remember that she is your mother and she holds all the keys to your traumas and triggers.
It is extremely difficult to remain conscious in the presence of your parents.

Terrible advice.
Shaming people into kindness is the quickest route to killing their spirit.

Who said anything about shaming?

 

Say, you'd raped my child and felt bad after.  Should I tell you to be ok with it and move on, or perhaps understand how that felt to do so and the effects it had (wound as motivation and wisdom) and not to do it again because of this experience (wound as motivation and wisdom).

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, Mu_ said:

Should I tell you to be ok with it and move on, or perhaps understand how that felt to do so and the effects it had (wound as motivation and wisdom) and not to do it again because of this experience (wound as motivation and wisdom).

Genuine, fruitful reflection is only possible from the place of non-attachment. Telling a person that is obviously attached to reflect upon their hurtful actions is shaming.

[Mu_]

19 hours ago, tsuki said:

Genuine, fruitful reflection is only possible from the place of non-attachment. Telling a person that is obviously attached to reflect upon their hurtful actions is shaming.

I really don't agree.  Reflecting on hurtful actions attached or not I don't think is an issue, nor is it one I asked her to do.  And if said someone had done so, it wouldn't be shaming as a result.  Shaming is done with emotional intent in my opinion.  Like I can say go fuck yourself with different intents, one my bring laughter and connection, and the other may just be aggressive, lashing out and cause separation.

 

[Megan Alecia]

@xxxx

(: good luck! 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Megan Alecia

[xxxx]

@egoeimai, @Gesundheit, @Mu_, @Thought Art, @hyruga, @K Ghoul - Thank you so much for your answers. You have been very kind and thoughtful with your insights. I really appreciate it. 

 

16 hours ago, tsuki said:

 It seems like your 'wound' is not really a wound, it's a fear of missing or losing her. I also feel that it is rooted in shame.

You have no obligation whatsoever to your mother with regards to being a certain, pleasant way. You two were fighting and she took part in that fight. She was not a bystander. She is an adult that is capable of regulating her own emotions, healing and forgiving you for what you said. We all say hurtful things when we're in that space, where we're only concerned with our own emotions and needs. While this forum is a spiritually-oriented place and it is common to feel shame with regards to standing our own ground and protecting our boundaries, it is very healthy to be your own precious person. It is okay to protect yourself more than you protect the one's you love. I'm sure that you had reasons for saying the things you did, even if you can't articulate them at the moment.

Remember that she is your mother and she holds all the keys to your traumas and triggers.
It is extremely difficult to remain conscious in the presence of your parents.

Tsuki, thank you for this perspective. 

Yes, I really do fear losing the people I love - that is something I am still trying to comprehend. What do you think - can you love someone a lot, and still be detached? Is it humanly possible? It sounds great in theory, but the practice is difficult - human emotions are pretty complex. 

The shame part is interesting. Could you please elaborate a little more on that? Why'd you use that particular word, and why does this event have its roots there? 

Look forward to your answer. 

6 hours ago, Khr said:

Another thing one should pay attention to is labelling oneself as “not the kind of person that does this or that”. I don’t know if this applies here, but I want to just say I have met people with a “martyr/saint” complex and it makes them very unhealthy. I feel it is important to admit we all have a dark side and not try to deny it.

Thank you for raising this point, Khr. However, I'd like to tell you that this is not the case here. As someone who has been very hurt before and considers themselves a pretty sensitive person - I take conscious effort not to hurt people. Do I feel angry sometimes? Yes. Do I usually act upon it? I try my best not to. To become "not that kind of a person" has taken a lot of heartbreak, learning, understanding and personal growth, so this is not something I go around using in a loose manner. 

6 hours ago, Megan Alecia said:

(: good luck!

Thank you for the video, Megan. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, xxxx said:

Yes, I really do fear losing the people I love - that is something I am still trying to comprehend. What do you think - can you love someone a lot, and still be detached? Is it humanly possible? It sounds great in theory, but the practice is difficult - human emotions are pretty complex.

@xxxx When you think that you will lose someone precious to you, it is natural to fear losing them. Attachment and detachment are not about dropping the feeling that comes from the thought, but rather it is about not revolving in the mental space that creates these thoughts. This is not done by "manually" dropping each arising thought, diverting your attention away from it, but rather by investigating the causes of dwelling in such a mental space. If it is common for you to think about losing the people that you love, it will be worthwhile to investigate the beliefs that you hold about your role in these relationships. A good starting point for the investigation would be looking at your childhood and the roles you took in your family dynamic.

Contrary to how most relationships work, it is not your job to regulate the other person's emotions by behaving in ways they need, or expect from you. This comes back all the way to your childhood, where it was your parents' job to regulate your emotions, while being responsible for theirs. If they weren't able to self-regulate (and they probably weren't), then they taught you to be co-dependent. This means that as you grew, you learned to fill their blind spots, and provide emotional service to them. Now, as an adult, you may find yourself looking for people to 'fit in' with you, to 'latch' into the services that you unconsciously learned to provide. This is the thing that most people call 'love': co-dependent emotional regulation. This will never work. Healthy relationships between adults require that every participant is responsible for their own emotional state while holding space for the self-expression of others. It does not mean that we're bottling emotions in, not crying and talking in monotone voice, or are being nasty to each other. It means that my emotions are my own and that I can express them, and know how to deal with them, either on my own, or by communicating my needs explicitly. This is 180 degrees different from acting my emotions out, blaming when I'm angry, avoiding when I'm fearful, scheming and lying when I desire.

The biggest obstacle to being able to self-regulate is shame. Shame is an emotion that stems from prioritizing external standards of conduct over personal feelings and inner truth. Your own emotions tell you who you are, they tell a personal, intelligent, coherent story and give you an identity that is not based upon roles that you serve in other people's lives (mother, wife, employee, friend, etc) or the way in which you were raised (feminine, gentle, submissive, etc). If you prioritize how you should act over what you feel, then you are disconnected from yourself and feel shame. Shame is an awful feeling precisely because you have thrown yourself under the bus and gave in to the demands of collective ego. If you are disconnected from yourself and are unwilling to experience the emotions that you have (feel stupid for feeling them, or whatever), then you have to repress them. When you repress anything, then you are creating a shadow that acts with the intention of being recognized and re-united with you. Repressed emotions periodically blow up and sneak into the way in which we communicate, undermining the message that we're trying to present. We lash out and act on them. If we're not careful, we're prone to further demonize them and repress them, so the cycle closes viciously.

The situation that you have presented is SO MUCH DEEPER than the wording you have used to describe it. This is your mother! The person that raised you. She knows every nook and cranny of your most intimate, infant, interior that still lives in you to this day. She was regulating your emotions way before you were able to regulate yourself! AND YOU ARE UNABLE TO FORGIVE YOURSELF FOR HURTING HER FEELINGS?! She is supposed to be the rock upon which your emotional life is built! She was forgiving you when you shat yourself in the mall! When you bit her tit! When you lied about eating the cookies! She is perfectly capable of forgiving you for a few harsh words and few drops of tears in a heated argument! THIS IS HER JOB AS A MOTHER. If she is a vindictive prick with total memory and a record of every fault that you committed, and reminds you of them, then she is a toxic abuser that should hold no space in your life. Fretting over how she feels in that case is a waste of your blood.

When it comes to the "humanly possible" part, you cannot be healthy in a toxic environment. It is possible to get out of a co-dependent relationship, but we're usually stuck in the crab bucket mentality and this requires every participant to do their share of the work. Usually, because of the generational gap, parents are not willing to change the ways in which they lived their whole lives. They are usually locked in because they have not processed their own childhood and the ways in which their own (now dead and deified) parents have hurt them. So, reducing the amount of relationships and increasing their quality will be necessary, but it is doable. Once you know how you are being hurt, it is very difficult to turn a blind eye and keep enduring it endlessly.

All of it is spoken from experience, and I may be projecting things onto you. You be the judge, but I thoroughly enjoyed writing this post .

[xxxx]

Tsuki, there’s a lot to think about here. I will examine this in much more depth.

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

You be the judge, but I thoroughly enjoyed writing this post

Also, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this. 

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. 

Best,