Danioover9000

Should education teach self-defense?

48 posts in this topic

   Throughout the majority of my education life, I haven't been taught, in societal education, how to defend myself. It took some bullying between early-high school, and a few social and physical conflicts in and outside school were I was once a victim, and an aggressor, to have interest in fitness and martial arts training. This is more personal, but why did it take that long for me to be interested in defending myself, in my past?

   However, there are some limits to fitness and martial arts, because one time I did defend myself physically from being bullied, but suffered punishment from it, which is one part that contributed to my lack of self esteem. This leads me to finding out more about self-defense, and it was way more than physical defense, like: discernment from appearance, pre-post combative preparation, detection, situational awareness, understanding use of force, avoidance, de-escalation, diffusion, post-incident recovery, reading body language, tonality, and utilizing a crowd for self-defense. The last bit of self-defense, crowd management, is to me a bit more important because when a situation involving life and death like car accidents, kidnapping in public, pick pocketing, assault and potential sexual assault in public occurs in a situation were most people have little understanding of self defense, martial arts training even, we tend to have cases where the crowd retracts from those incidents and tend to distribute blame and responsibility to others instead of themselves individually, like below:

   Incidents likes these are, what I think, is the result of not learning self-defense as part of the education system. If I'm wrong, and you have a different view on this issue with groups developing apathy towards, crisis incidents to not even bother shouting at the perpetrator's, or taking action, let me know. This is also one example, if I find more I'll share.

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@Danioover9000

I can see that being a necessary stepping stone for society. I'd like us to get to a point where self-defense no longer needs to be taught though. Perhaps that's naive but I believe it's possible.

How? By solving violence at the root level.

People do not just attack or bully other people. If that was the case, that some humans are just crazy animals you have to defend against, then maybe self-defense would be justified.

But I don't believe that.

I believe violence is the result of trauma and lower spiritual consciousness.

If you heal that, then what do you need self-defense for?

In Conversations With God, God talks about how violence does not exist in highly evolved societies. And that beings in this society would not defend themselves if they were truly attacked. They don't perceive death or damage as real.

Of course, we could say we don't live in such a world. But perhaps the only reason we don't is because we believe we can't. We believe we must defend ourselves, so we create a self-fulfilling prophecy where that becomes true.

It's a good question to ask though. I don't think there's any easy answers. Thanks for sharing your perspective.


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@aurum

31 minutes ago, aurum said:

@Danioover9000

I can see that being a necessary stepping stone for society. I'd like us to get to a point where self-defense no longer needs to be taught though. Perhaps that's naive but I believe it's possible.

How? By solving violence at the root level.

People do not just attack or bully other people. If that was the case, that some humans are just crazy animals you have to defend against, then maybe self-defense would be justified.

But I don't believe that.

I believe violence is the result of trauma and lower spiritual consciousness.

If you heal that, then what do you need self-defense for?

In Conversations With God, God talks about how violence does not exist in highly evolved societies. And that beings in this society would not defend themselves if they were truly attacked. They don't perceive death or damage as real.

Of course, we could say we don't live in such a world. But perhaps the only reason we don't is because we believe we can't. We believe we must defend ourselves, so we create a self-fulfilling prophecy where that becomes true.

It's a good question to ask though. I don't think there's any easy answers. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

   Thank you for sharing your perspective on this issue. I do agree that society does need to educate self defense in schools because I haven't seen traditional education systems teach self-defense and hope at least this is being taught nation wide and globally. At that point, when self-defense becomes part of mainstream education, and we do experience the limits of it, then we're ready to reevaluate it for further changes until we don't need the physical self-defense part.

   It's a complicated issue for sure, and confounding it is unfamiliarity to, fear of, and anxiety for, your safety or family's safety in a situation that could severely hurt or kill, and you don't know how to handle how the other person's state of consciousness and emotional states in this situation. At least if most people had an earlier indoctrination process of self-defense, their subconscious minds could offer more solutions than purely physically resolving the conflicts. Also, people's mindfulness can vary, along with their focus, sensory clarity and equanimity. Equanimity here, to me, might be more important as that can help people choose the handling of a situation calmly, rather than react to and go for the easiest way to resolve some self-defense scenarios like physically attack first or be more aggressive than the perpetrator.

   Thank you for sharing your conscious perspective on self-defense.

   

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Martial arts as a PE class would be cool. They are all about discipline and something like Tai Chi could have a lot of benefit for kids in school. I remember my elementary school had a karate class in the evening, but it was lame and not very helpful.

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@Zega

20 hours ago, Zega said:

Martial arts as a PE class would be cool. They are all about discipline and something like Tai Chi could have a lot of benefit for kids in school. I remember my elementary school had a karate class in the evening, but it was lame and not very helpful.

   Thank you for sharing your perspective. This I do agree with, because tai chi has meditation practices built into the movements, and introducing martial arts with different degrees of difficulty, throughout each level of education.

   However, it's not enough to only be martial arts, it has to be self-defense that covers combat and other areas within self defense like: discernment from appearance, pre-post combative preparation, detection, situational awareness, understanding use of force, avoidance, de-escalation, diffusion, post-incident recovery, reading body language, tonality, and utilizing a crowd for self-defense. It should be more than physically defending yourself, because certain conflicts can be resolved without getting into fights.

   On the other hand, people who haven't trained to defend themselves early in life won't have enough confidence to step in and intervene in a situation that's not too life threatening, and intervention could save a life, but instead some citizens in some countries just ignore completely. 

   Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Edited by Danioover9000

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It would be great if they taught some martial arts in high school.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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@Leo Gura

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It would be great if they taught some martial arts in high school.

   Not just high school, but elementary school, middle school, college and universities. Not just martial arts, but mainly self-defense and more than just physically defending yourself.

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3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It would be great if they taught some martial arts in high school.

They do, the greatest,  most effective, and most underrated martial arts of all; wrestling.  

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Most of the bullying I ever received in life was social.  I've been a very competent grappler for many years.  It came in handy a few times when I was younger, but overall it never really helped me.  I'm not arguing against having it tought at all, it can be great in a lot of ways, but it is not some magical solution for all or even most confrontation.  Most of the time it just served as knowledge in my mind that I could win a physical fight against most people, but served me little utility in my adult life aside from fun sport.

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On 15/12/2020 at 0:42 AM, Zega said:

Martial arts as a PE class would be cool. They are all about discipline and something like Tai Chi could have a lot of benefit for kids in school. I remember my elementary school had a karate class in the evening, but it was lame and not very helpful.

Yeah lol I did karate for some years and it's not very practical in terms of self-defence. 

I do think self-defence should be taught in schools though, especially for women.

I can't leave my flat nowadays on my own after 4pm for safety reasons (so many incidences happening in the area). 


"Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it" -Rumi

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As a 3rd degree black belt in Hapkido, I also agree that at least some degree of martial arts should be taught within the mainstream academic institutions. That's actually why it's good that a lot of high schools in countries like the US and Canada have competitive wrestling teams, as wrestling of type is one of the most effective styles of martial arts or combat. 

However, to become truly proficient in any martial art it's not enough to learn each specific self-defense techniques, you need to have at least 1-2 years of consistent practice with not only sparring with training partners but also with repeated real-life simulation drills that force you to use of all of the techniques you learn within all kinds of highly unpredictable and threatening real life-like scenarios within any kind of fight. 

US Navy Seal, Jocko Willink, and the famous mixed martial arts color commentator, Joe Rogan both really tell it like it is for all kinds of martial arts in these vids below:

 

 

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@Hardkill

14 hours ago, Hardkill said:

As a 3rd degree black belt in Hapkido, I also agree that at least some degree of martial arts should be taught within the mainstream academic institutions. That's actually why it's good that a lot of high schools in countries like the US and Canada have competitive wrestling teams, as wrestling of type is one of the most effective styles of martial arts or combat. 

However, to become truly proficient in any martial art it's not enough to learn each specific self-defense techniques, you need to have at least 1-2 years of consistent practice with not only sparring with training partners but also with repeated real-life simulation drills that force you to use of all of the techniques you learn within all kinds of highly unpredictable and threatening real life-like scenarios within any kind of fight. 

US Navy Seal, Jocko Willink, and the famous mixed martial arts color commentator, Joe Rogan both really tell it like it is for all kinds of martial arts in these vids below:

 

 

   I definitely agree that martial arts and self-defense needs to be taught in the education system and mainstream, for the discipline and humility these training programs bring in, and that added know how and confidence in real life conflicts. Of course, the trainings should be more than physical combat, like I've stated about self- defense.

   I also agree that training should be consistent in order to have the subconscious mind, as readily as possible, be able to execute these moves. On real life drills and to some extent deadly techniques, I've supplemented that with multi-sensory visualization, which I've done long enough that it's vivid for me. I've been able to just visualize techniques I haven't done for a long time, and it still felt very familiar despite the lack of physical training.

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@Moon

On 12/16/2020 at 3:01 AM, Moon said:

Yeah lol I did karate for some years and it's not very practical in terms of self-defence. 

I do think self-defence should be taught in schools though, especially for women.

I can't leave my flat nowadays on my own after 4pm for safety reasons (so many incidences happening in the area). 

   This guy seems to have found a pretty good karate style for self-defense:

   To clarify for everyone, I'm not stopping at physical self-defense, I'm advocating for many forms of self-defense that are social, psychological, environmental, and much more. I don't know why people here think I'm mainly for physical defense, I'm for many forms of defense even non-physical ones.:D

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@Heart of Space

On 12/16/2020 at 0:41 AM, Heart of Space said:

Most of the bullying I ever received in life was social.  I've been a very competent grappler for many years.  It came in handy a few times when I was younger, but overall it never really helped me.  I'm not arguing against having it tought at all, it can be great in a lot of ways, but it is not some magical solution for all or even most confrontation.  Most of the time it just served as knowledge in my mind that I could win a physical fight against most people, but served me little utility in my adult life aside from fun sport.

   I'm not just for physical self-defense for all people in education system to be taught, I'm more for other forms of self-defense being taught in the education system. Physical defense can only go so far, what if the other has a weapon? Makes it more dangerous to physically defend, you'd have to defend using multiple types of defenses.

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@Heart of Space

On 12/16/2020 at 0:36 AM, Heart of Space said:

They do, the greatest,  most effective, and most underrated martial arts of all; wrestling.  

   Wrestling is one form of grappling arts that does vary from person to person, as you'd need to be a t a certain fitness level to train and execute some of the techniques. Main problem is the neck drills, as one wrong move nearly clicked my neck. BJJ is more people age friendly. Take downs are pretty useful in physical self-defense, but it's context sensitive as if done wrongly can hurt you more than the other person.

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1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Heart of Space

   Wrestling is one form of grappling arts that does vary from person to person, as you'd need to be a t a certain fitness level to train and execute some of the techniques. Main problem is the neck drills, as one wrong move nearly clicked my neck. BJJ is more people age friendly. Take downs are pretty useful in physical self-defense, but it's context sensitive as if done wrongly can hurt you more than the other person.

If done wrongly, yes.  As with anything.

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Heart of Space

   I'm not just for physical self-defense for all people in education system to be taught, I'm more for other forms of self-defense being taught in the education system. Physical defense can only go so far, what if the other has a weapon? Makes it more dangerous to physically defend, you'd have to defend using multiple types of defenses.

What kind of defense would you suggest versus a weapon?  

Like non-physical de-escalation techniques?  

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@Heart of Space

28 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

If done wrongly, yes.  As with anything.

What kind of defense would you suggest versus a weapon?  

Like non-physical de-escalation techniques?  

   There are safer ways of strengthening the neck, like isometrics, or band/towel assisted resistance training.

   It depends on the lead up to a combat situation involving weapons. For example, say you're commuting back home from work, via public bus. First, you need to detect and be aware of the situation in the bus. Any group or person exhibiting signs they are dangerous? If you had situational awareness, you'd avoid a majority of conflicts from avoiding people who're potentially dangerous. While in the bus, say a crazy homeless person, acting suspicious or grumpy, try to avoid direct eye contact, like instead look forwards, or out the window, or mess with your phone, anything to not give any excuse of said crazy person to invite you into their world. If they want and signal interest in you for whatever reason, give a 'Hay man.' or 'What's up?', in confident body language and tonality, just straight forward and factual, if they still inquire about you or why you're in the bus, simple and straight to the point ' I'm coming from work and heading home, and return to messing with your phone, while keeping them in your peripheral vision.

   When it comes to weapons, it depends on the situation there and the lead up to it as well, if you have a weapon yourself or not, and the other has a weapon. In most cases, maintain situational awareness to avoid accidentally created scenarios. Most cases are resolved before any need to use weapons when you're mindful of your surroundings, even socially defending yourself influences the other not to escalate the situation, weapons or not, as that looks really bad for the aggressor.

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@Heart of Space

   Another way of looking at efficient self defense being taught in the education system is that you have more capacity for mindfulness during stressful scenarios that can become combative or heated at best. Yes, there's a lot of conceptual frame works that need to be constructed, and best methods and practices for each person's level, but ultimately this is all leading up to having greater mindfulness ability in combative scenarios, like the one where that ex-soldier who worked hard to get himself into the army, trail and effort, failing most times, and while in his vacation tour around Europe with some buddies, he encountered and stopped a terrorist attempting to shoot up a train full of people. He was able to subdue him with some assistance.

   I want more people like that, trained in the education system, that is able to take necessary action when shit hits the fan out of left field, so to speak, and less people too crippled by fears and anxiety not to assist.

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@Danioover9000  Ok, I think I understand your feelings.  You would like for there to be a general confidence, ability to be mindful, and proper knowledge and procedure to be instilled within people within the education system.  Does this sound right?  I think I like this idea too.  Things like situational awareness and having proper training to react to a situation among a citizenry could have extremely positive benefits in society.  You almost would be able to have a level of communities self-policing, which would be a great way to curb some of the present issues we have today.  You've won me over on this topic.  

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@Heart of Space

18 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

@Danioover9000  Ok, I think I understand your feelings.  You would like for there to be a general confidence, ability to be mindful, and proper knowledge and procedure to be instilled within people within the education system.  Does this sound right?  I think I like this idea too.  Things like situational awareness and having proper training to react to a situation among a citizenry could have extremely positive benefits in society.  You almost would be able to have a level of communities self-policing, which would be a great way to curb some of the present issues we have today.  You've won me over on this topic.  

   Yes, this is what I want for societies going forward: general confidence, greater mindfulness, proper knowledge and procedure within the education system at varying degrees of complexity, and a decrease in social situations where people just freeze, or turn the cheek and ignore when some intervention, for example first aid or calling out would be enough to save a life. Also, thanks for bringing up the additional point that self-defense in the education system can make it easier for communities to self-police, and develop community policing, even increase the quality of available police officers for hire and for training as well.

   Despite my vision for the education system including self-defense, I do see how this vision can be distorted and corrupted for more than it's intended purpose. For example, a third world society and a dictator or elite might really like my proposal, and would happily implement it leaving out some crucial parts like mindfulness, in the aim of militarizing a country, similar the North Korea. 

 

Edited by Danioover9000

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