Leo and friends - god , not God

[Carl-Richard]

When I read your post, I feel like the text is ---> here, but the meaning is                                                                ----> here.

[Nahm]

35 minutes ago, SourceCodo said:

Once you figure out who knows, will you tell me? I'm not sure I have the appropriate cypher.

Sob, I swear I’m tryin, but every time I find it I’m not there!  

[Forestluv]

27 minutes ago, SourceCodo said:

@Forestluv Interesting. You don't think this applies to God? That was part of the point of this post.

God might be very defined to you... Or maybe not. The term has a wide variety of meanings among humans.
 

It depends on context. This would be related to the “pre/trans” fallacy. A mind at a “pre” stage of development will not be able to see or understand a “trans” stage. Re-defying terms does no good, because it’s not about the word - it’s about what the word is pointing to. Here the most important thing is to have an awakening / realization to what the word points to. 

It’s not just “God”, this also occurs with pointers like Nothing, Emptiness, Everything, Infinite etc. It’s not an intellectual figuring it out and debate over substituting terms. It’s more of a direct experience and awakening of “Omg!!! So that’s what Nothing is!! Or isn’t. Or. . .Or. . . How tf can I explain it in words. There is no “it”, yet also an “it”. This is a deeper / broader understanding. 

A major breakthrough for the mind is when it asks “what a minute. . . Have I even seen the Grand Canyon. It seems kinda silly to debate what we should call the Grand Canyon and what the experience is like if I’ve never been there. Perhaps I should take a trip to the Grand Canyon and see for myself what all the hub-bub is about”

When the Grand Canyon was first seen by voyagers, they were awestruck and didn’t know how to describe it. They returned to civilization and regular people said “you are using grandiose terms. We don’t believe you! You are crazy”. A minority of people got very curious and wanted to see for themselves. Yet in this day, taking such a trip was very arduous. There were no planes or roads. People had to spend weeks undergoing a trek and foot and horseback. It it was expensive. It required effort, work and perseverance to see and experience it. Most people weren’t willing to do it and never saw/experienced it.

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Sob, I swear I’m tryin, but every time I find it I’m not there!  

Superposition observing itself ? 

[SourceCodo]

27 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

It depends on context. This would be related to the “pre/trans” fallacy. A mind at a “pre” stage of development will not be able to see or understand a “trans” stage. Re-defying terms does no good, because it’s not about the word - it’s about what the word is pointing to. Here the most important thing is to have an awakening / realization to what the word points to. 

It’s not just “God”, this also occurs with pointers like Nothing, Emptiness, Everything, Infinite etc. It’s not an intellectual figuring it out and debate over substituting terms. It’s more of a direct experience and awakening of “Omg!!! So that’s what Nothing is!! Or isn’t. Or. . .Or. . . How tf can I explain it in words. There is no “it”, yet also an “it”. This is a deeper / broader understanding. 

 

The depth of my character is beholden to the diversity of my experiences. I might actually know what you're getting at and may have experienced it myself many times and maintained the connection in awareness for prolonged periods of time... Oh the possibilities. Once you had the realization did you unpack and live with the experience or did you go about your life hoping to learn more? Did you try and tell your family and friends that they were asleep? I've seen it happen.

I had a rough time accepting that I would eventually have to just continue the journey and find my authenticity again... I had a bag of spiritually dogmatic terms that kept getting me into binds with people that don't know those terms... I care deeply about connecting with anyone and everyone.

It's a bonus when they see through my words to the nice guy (who talks like a total asshole sometimes - apologies) trying to connect.

Edited December 10, 2020 by SourceCodo

[SourceCodo]

43 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

When I read your post, I feel like the text is ---> here, but the meaning is                                                                ----> here.

You correct. Thanks for noticing.

I find it rather boring to just say *some* things outright. People usually either attach themselves to the concept or accept it as truth/falsehood which leads to tragic misunderstandings. I'm trying to recognize the truth in what Leo has said while also giving credence to the fact that is applies to everyone here as well.
 

I'm no teacher. I explore. I'm looking for the guy/gal who knew what Gautama Buddha *maybe* meant when he raised the flower to his nose and gave it a whiff instead of a long speech during the flower sermon.

Edited December 10, 2020 by SourceCodo

[JosephKnecht]

You are the Source, Codo.

There is nobody else but You. 

You are the One asking,...

You are the only One that can answer. 

 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, SourceCodo said:

The depth of my character is beholden to the diversity of my experiences. I might actually know what you're getting at and may have experienced it myself many times and maintained the connection in awareness for prolonged periods of time... Oh the possibilities.

In the context of a movie character, I would agree. Not only depth, yet also breadth. I’ve sought to experience hundreds of very different experiences. This has certainly expanded my experiential range. I know have more lenses I can wear and perceive.

In another context, none of it happened. It is all creations occurring Now. I have had no experiences. There is infinite possibilities and one of those infinite possibilities is appearing Here and Now as a “memory” of an “experience”. Yet this is very difficult for the character to see because immersion into the character is dependent upon not seeing it.

1 hour ago, SourceCodo said:

Once you had the realization did you unpack and live with the experience or did you go about your life hoping to learn more? Did you try and tell your family and friends that they were asleep? 

These are really good introspective questions imo - and difficult to answer. Using a pointer, I would say “The Journey is the Destination”. This is the most accurate I can say, yet isn’t rational or practical.

Another way to describe would be to lucid dream. To consciously realize one is in a dream and that as the character I now I have partial control over the dream - and realizing that it is all occurring with a higher “me” as the dreamer. Yet if awareness gets too shifted toward awareness of the dreamer, the character ceases to exist. The dreamer can no longer trick itself into believing that the character it plays is real. There is a big price to pay for this.

At the human / personal level, I’ve had deep desires to share realizations with others, yet have been unable to do so. Imagine discovering wonderful gifts yet not being able to transmit it to others because you are mute. This is perhaps the saddest part of the spiritual path for me.

1 hour ago, SourceCodo said:

I had a rough time accepting that I would eventually have to just continue the journey and find my authenticity again... I had a bag of spiritually dogmatic terms that kept getting me into binds with people that don't know those terms...

For me, that has more to do with my relationship with spiritual dogmatism - in particular dualistic analysis, seeking, attachment and identification. Fluid detachment is a very different relationship. I can can hear a zen monk make proclamations and can observe the wisdom and truth within it, without being beholden to it, moments later I can see the wisdom and truth within bird chirps without being beholden to it, then I may experience the timeless inter-connectedness of a blade of grass with all of reality, then I may feel sadness that I cannot express this to another, then I feel joy reading a Basho poem as I smile and say “Yes! Basho knows!”. 

[SourceCodo]

1 minute ago, JosephKnecht said:

You are the Source, Codo.

There is nobody else but You. 

You are the One asking,...

You are the only One that can answer. 

 

I can remove this entire reality from my experience, but I choose not to.

Now let's talk about You.

You are the One I seek a connection with while I am here.

My intention is clear.

What is your favorite show/movie?

[JosephKnecht]

22 minutes ago, SourceCodo said:

What is your favorite show/movie?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Blue

[SourceCodo]

34 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Blue

You are no ordinary man. The call to reconnect with our primordial nature is a complex feeling and it feels like our own nature making itself clear that it wishes for union with all of life and our source (whatever this means, I'm just trying to relate to the characters actions later in the movie). Thanks for sharing.

Edited December 10, 2020 by SourceCodo

[SourceCodo]

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

In the context of a movie character, I would agree. Not only depth, yet also breadth. I’ve sought to experience hundreds of very different experiences. This has certainly expanded my experiential range. I know have more lenses I can wear and perceive.

In another context, none of it happened. It is all creations occurring Now. I have had no experiences. There is infinite possibilities and one of those infinite possibilities is appearing Here and Now as a “memory” of an “experience”. Yet this is very difficult for the character to see because immersion into the character is dependent upon not seeing it.

These are really good introspective questions imo - and difficult to answer. Using a pointer, I would say “The Journey is the Destination”. This is the most accurate I can say, yet isn’t rational or practical.

Another way to describe would be to lucid dream. To consciously realize one is in a dream and that as the character I now I have partial control over the dream - and realizing that it is all occurring with a higher “me” as the dreamer. Yet if awareness gets too shifted toward awareness of the dreamer, the character ceases to exist. The dreamer can no longer trick itself into believing that the character it plays is real. There is a big price to pay for this.

At the human / personal level, I’ve had deep desires to share realizations with others, yet have been unable to do so. Imagine discovering wonderful gifts yet not being able to transmit it to others because you are mute. This is perhaps the saddest part of the spiritual path for me.

For me, that has more to do with my relationship with spiritual dogmatism - in particular dualistic analysis, seeking, attachment and identification. Fluid detachment is a very different relationship. I can can hear a zen monk make proclamations and can observe the wisdom and truth within it, without being beholden to it, moments later I can see the wisdom and truth within bird chirps without being beholden to it, then I may experience the timeless inter-connectedness of a blade of grass with all of reality, then I may feel sadness that I cannot express this to another, then I feel joy reading a Basho poem as I smile and say “Yes! Basho knows!”. 

I wanted to respond to each of your points individually, but I think you did a good job of wrapping up the points I raised.

I ask you this - how could a blind, deaf and mute individual articulate these experiences and truths after they found them within? Who could possibly know what the individual knows?

Here's a Joshu quote for you, I'm curious how it is received:
 

Quote

 

A monk was taking leave of Joshu.

Joshu said, "Now that you are going elsewhere, if a man asks you, 'Have you seen Joshu?,' how will you answer?"

The monk said, " 'I have seen him' is all that I can say."

Joshu said, "I am a donkey. How do you see me?"

The monk was speechless.

 

NOTE: The monk only saw the Joshu that is Joshu, and not the Joshu that is not Joshu.

Thanks for sharing Basho, I really liked what I read.

Quote came from here

[Moksha]

@SourceCodo If we create our own reality, must we not also create our own God? Unless, of course, there is no we.

[Forestluv]

51 minutes ago, SourceCodo said:

NOTE: The monk only saw the Joshu that is Joshu, and not the Joshu that is not Joshu.

The monk is Joshu. 

The rest is a zen-style koan that is generally counter-productive imo. Yet some minds resonate with that type of thing. Personally I don't like the style of indirect partial-truth riddles.

[SourceCodo]

57 minutes ago, Moksha said:

@SourceCodo If we create our own reality, must we not also create our own God? Unless, of course, there is no we.

@Moksha

Perhaps, but this shared space is where I'm focusing my awareness - it's practical and keeps this body alive. It seems to be designed explicitly for experience and exploration. A pseudo sandbox learning environment of sorts. My consciousness sits somewhere in the midst of biochemical reactions emanation from direct thought. A byproduct. I seem to be influencing the elements (in this body) with thoughts of the mind. But that's even hard to say because it's not that simple.

And this is where I draw my title from. Big G vs little g. I argue that I'm not creating my reality because I don't have God like powers to shape it and neither does any other being I've interacted with. Perhaps I'm living in a different comic book and can't see your powers... But in this one you don't have any beyond what is the meta human experience and it's potential from my perspective.

Now that being said, I respect your thoughts and the thought forms that have been created behind the veil of what I can see in you. I'm sure I could benefit from hearing about the story of your created God. Or if you're just referring to yourself, cheers.

The idea of "no we" is beyond me unfortunately. I have been there before in my epiphanies and the same story always reemerges - "Cool story, it's all one and I could live my life through this lens... But it's far more sincere to respect every other as a fun house mirror(we have differences) reflection of myself... Implying we." 

To be completely honest, I was overcome with a deep sense of guilt and sorrow when the realization of God hit me. It felt more akin to my own deep set narcissistic traits trying to dismiss the existence of others so I could more sincerely attach myself to the truth that had emerged into my awareness. Eventually the dualistic perspective settled and I chose it as a decent place to hang out. It means I see you and respect you as an individual with the same greatness (with different details) driving you that is driving me. A shared experience of unity (inherently contradictory to the normal paradigm of human thinking).

Perhaps I am shallow and unenlightened, but that is why I continue expanding my experiences and seeking the viewpoints of others while giving respect to the profound existence I'm experiencing.

Edited December 10, 2020 by SourceCodo

[SourceCodo]

4 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

In terms of mind expansion and awakenings, I find these types of zen koan riddles to be counter-productive for a variety of reasons. Some minds may resonate with it, not mine. 

 Notice the underlying structure of "it" and the underlying intention of "how it is received". 

The riddle can be related to in many ways. Yet the nature of a riddle is that there is a "correct" answer and a test to see if a receiver can relate to the "correct" way. This has value in some contexts, yet at a meta level it's a silly spiritual game. 

It's all a spiritual game meant to be explored, isn't it? And fair enough, Joshu was a troll to the enlightened that want things explained via their truth and nothing but it. They wanted Joshu to paint a picture of their reality for them with his own words.

When I sent it, I was hoping you would read and be like "oh hey, that's sort of what's happening in my interaction with this person, how funny". ie - You view me in a certain way, but I am entirely different than what you view me as.

Wish I couldn't provide something that fit well, I thought you might like Joshu based on your interest in Basho.

[Moksha]

@SourceCodo The secret sauce of spirituality is unrelenting sincerity. Don't sell yourself short. You have that. ?

Creating your own reality is about attention. It is not about intentionally altering reality, but about what you attend, whether intentionally or not. Whatever you attend, you amplify. Which is where "god" comes in. One of the realizations I've had, here in our schizophrenic family, is that people experience god according to their own lens. If their god is different from mine, that is completely ok. The only thing that matters is my direct experience, and the same is true for you.

So, where does big-God come in? The more Conscious we are, the closer we are to realizing God, but even then it must be through the lens of our localized experience. 

For me, it is the withdrawal of our human senses, and the opening of our spiritual eyes. I see the same Consciousness in everything, and everyone. It infuses every form. It is literally all of this. When you realize it in this way, there is an unconditional love that arises, which you never thought could be possible.

You have a sense of the sacred, and I feel that profundity too. There's nothing wrong with retaining personality, and continuing to exist in duality. The wisdom, as I see it, is not to overly identify with any of it. Trust your spiritual eyes, because they see truly.

Just how I see it, I hope it helps ?

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, SourceCodo said:

When I sent it, I was hoping you would read and be like "oh hey, that's sort of what's happening in my interaction with this person, how funny". ie - You view me in a certain way, but I am entirely different than what you view me as.

That is another way of looking at it. I hadn’t seen it like that. Thank you for revealing that perspective. I like to collect perspectives. Sorry I missed the pitch. That would have been a fun connection.

1 hour ago, SourceCodo said:

Wish I couldn't provide something that fit well, I thought you might like Joshu based on your interest in Basho.

I appreciate the sentiment. As I took a walk in the graveyard tonight, I thought about the riddle. It kinda has a Basho vibe to it, yet I also have a different relationship to it. For me, Basho is very fluid and can melt. When he asks questions, they are more like rhetoric questions in which the asker is asking himself, rather than asking another being and expecting a response. To me, this has a different orientation than a riddle.

To me, a riddle is like a puzzle to be figured out. Self inquiry has a different vibe. If I self inquire “What is a thought?”. It’s not something to be figured out. It’s more like the question just lingers and there are appearances that dance around it. 

[SourceCodo]

3 hours ago, Moksha said:

@SourceCodo The secret sauce of spirituality is unrelenting sincerity. Don't sell yourself short. You have that. ?

Creating your own reality is about attention. It is not about intentionally altering reality, but about what you attend, whether intentionally or not. Whatever you attend, you amplify. Which is where "god" comes in. One of the realizations I've had, here in our schizophrenic family, is that people experience god according to their own lens. If their god is different from mine, that is completely ok. The only thing that matters is my direct experience, and the same is true for you.

So, where does big-God come in? The more Conscious we are, the closer we are to realizing God, but even then it must be through the lens of our localized experience. 

For me, it is the withdrawal of our human senses, and the opening of our spiritual eyes. I see the same Consciousness in everything, and everyone. It infuses every form. It is literally all of this. When you realize it in this way, there is an unconditional love that arises, which you never thought could be possible.

You have a sense of the sacred, and I feel that profundity too. There's nothing wrong with retaining personality, and continuing to exist in duality. The wisdom, as I see it, is not to overly identify with any of it. Trust your spiritual eyes, because they see truly.

Just how I see it, I hope it helps ?

Can’t argue with anything here. You’ve obviously thought this through deeply and seem to be abiding in a clear state of consciousness. I thank you for taking the time to write out this sincere response to me. 

Here is my response, I’m trying to expand upon your points with some of my own roadblocks. Apologies if it seems confrontational.

I just can’t get past this feeling that each of us experiencing god in our own way is just another way of identifying the uniqueness of our personal experience and individual (egoic) taste. If God is truly as inherent as we say, we should show the utmost respect for everyone we meet (just respect and wonder, doesn’t mean they know everything). Especially if they haven’t allowed the required layers of consciousness to peel back yet to attain awareness themselves. It feels like a line in the sand for many, but to me is just an inherent fact that doesn’t need to be addressed. This isn’t a bad thing... Our source is what it is.

Being not being is fun and all, but the concept won’t be taking up any mind-space when you’re totally immersed in your experience. And when you’re totally immersed in your experience, you’re more likely to authentically connect with people because concepts and ideas aren’t coming between you.

There is the bigger and more ever present picture to consider, but if I’m being honest, my awareness tends to localize on centered experience the more I focus...But my awareness of the profundity of life is ever present no matter the mood. 

I believe we should find ourselves, support the team and party like hell before the lights go out. Have some good laughs and explore the mysteries.
 

And just be ready to party again if you find yourself awakening in a new place. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by SourceCodo

[Arcangelo]

7 hours ago, Moksha said:

Creating your own reality is about attention. It is not about intentionally altering reality, but about what you attend, whether intentionally or not. Whatever you attend, you amplify. Which is where "god" comes in.

Wow! Thank you!

7 hours ago, Moksha said:

I see the same Consciousness in everything, and everyone. It infuses every form.

I see it in everyone, but not in everything.

7 hours ago, Moksha said:

When you realize it in this way, there is an unconditional love that arises, which you never thought could be possible.

I bet it does.

 

 

----------------

I am an inter-dimensional, immortal (close to eternal) spiritual being. I can't die, I have never lived, I just exist. That's how far I have got.

Am I God?