Who's behind the decision?

[meow_meow]

So, as usual, I'll start with a quick intro of my characters enlightenment stats:

• I've been meditating almost daily for ~1.2 years (35mins)
• No psychedelics
• "Love", "God", "Oneness" are yet to be discovered and still remain a mystery to me at this time.
• and I've done ~6months of self-inquiry sessions 3-4 times a week.

Up until this now I've been practicing meditation technique of just looking at my thoughts, letting them go and re-focusing on my breath.
For the past ~3weeks I switched to "Do nothing technique" and I feel that shit just hit the deck.

How?

I?
I got to the feeling of "Who is there to decide to move my hand? "Who is there to decide to breath in?  Who is there to breathe out?'
Who, what decides to do anything? If this "I" is just basically a container of the past, social conditioning, a container of beliefs and assumptions?
What the FUCK is there?

As soon as I get to that point of dropping language (assuming that those are just symbols with social-conditioned meaning), and asking those questions in a no-question way, like "just looking" sends me into nauseous, suicidal, torture-like feelings, tears start coming (I'm a 27 year old man ffs) and it gets extreme and  I MEAN EXTREMELY hard to continue my self-inquiry session, to the point that this "I" can't take it no more.

So my question is - How can .. I ? Continue past this point.. I can't even meditate normally anymore, I barely sleep (again) because of nightmares.. I have crazy dejavus of previous dreams that feel insase ...

I mean - I've had previous similar experiences when practicing kriya yoga, but this is just insane and I'm feeling like my mind is going insane.

EDIT: Also my intuition is going crazy, How do I know it's intuition? I don't know it. I fucking feel it like I've never felt it since childhood. I ask questions to myself, and receive answers even before I've asked the question and the answer is emotional, not rational, and based on the feeling comes rational decision. ThIs is INSANE.

Tips?

Edited November 17, 2020 by meow_meow

[LastThursday]

Take a step away, go be 27 and enjoy it.

Then if and when you're ready, go again. You, the "I" may die in the end, but all this carries witnessing itself.

[meow_meow]

5 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

Take a step away, go be 27 and enjoy it.

Then if and when you're ready, go again. You, the "I" may die in the end, but all this carries witnessing itself.

Yes, I've done it before, but this time it seems insanely sick.

Sound from computer speakers don't even feel like their coming from the speakers.
When people speak it feels like the sound is not coming out of their mouths.

Visual field feels the same.

Physical sensations feel like their there on their own, no-one is there to feel them, I'm somewhere "In the background"

[VeganAwake]

You have been identifying with these thoughts your whole life.... of course there's going to be some backlash and things like that.

Simply notice the thoughts, stop identifying with them and feeding them energy.

Like sitting on a mountaintop and watching the thought clouds passing by. Stop getting involved ❤

 

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, meow_meow said:

like "just looking" sends me into nauseous, suicidal, torture-like feelings, tears start coming (I'm a 27 year old man ffs) and it gets extreme

Yeah, that's called Primordial Avoidance.

The ego is terrified of realizing it's own emptiness.

The thing looking through your eyes is Infinity.

You are Infinity.

How can you continue? As you slowly chip away at it, you'll get more comfortable looking inward and eventually the resistance will melt away with only Infinity remaining. This chipping away process can take a few years. Gently keep at it. If it gets too emotionally tough, take a brief break and then return to it a few days later.

Remember, Self-Love is key here. Don't force yourself too much. Comfort yourself with Self-Love when the going gets tough.

[Sempiternity]

You seem pretty dedicated on the path to finding Truth. Out of curiosity, why haven't you gone down the path of psychedelics, considering many teachers (like Leo) say it's the most direct route to Truth?

[bejapuskas]

@meow_meow  I often see people treating self-survival as some sort of superior epistemological argument, when it really isn't. Don't take your life too seriously man  

[meow_meow]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Self-Love is key here.

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, that's called Primordial Avoidance.

Interesting, never heard of "Primordial Avoidance"  before, I'll take a closer look into it.
Ehh, I guess it's time for yet another break and I'll look into your self-love videos closer, because it seems like there's no going 'forward' without it. Thanks for advice!
 

[meow_meow]

7 hours ago, Sempiternity said:

You seem pretty dedicated on the path to finding Truth. Out of curiosity, why haven't you gone down the path of psychedelics, considering many teachers (like Leo) say it's the most direct route to Truth?

Because I don't have access to them. They are illegal in my country (including all grow kits etc) They are not so popular in my social circle, that's why I don't know any people that know people who would have access to them. Travel is on stand-by due to Covid-19, so I can't travel to places where they are legal.
The only stuff that I have access to is weed, MDMA and some shitty coke, maybe some other stimulants but that's about it.

@VeganAwake@bejapuskas Yes, during my meditation sessions I was able to observe thoughts without getting involved in them, or taking them serious, however - when it comes down this specific "looking for who is there" there are no thoughts, just extremelly unpleasant physical sensations that I described (nausea, feelings of getting tortured, sadness that lead to tears etc) and those are really, really hard to control.

[HighFlyingOwl]

@meow_meow I think I've experienced similar things like this during meditations. I do them daily since ~ 4 months now, and I did the strong determination sitting technique (30 minutes a day) for some time. I had physical sensations that were almost painful, not located, just painful in my mind. And such a strong urge to stop meditating, or to distract myself. 

I had thoughts upcoming like "this meditation is already really deep, so you can stop now", "you've been meditating so long now, its ok if you end it early today", "you're doing it wrong, it shouldn't feel bad / painful in some way". These sensations were pretty intense and unpleasent, Idk if I would call them torture, but they defenitly were on a good way. 

It was difficult to just watch these sensations just like the other ones (itches, which are unpleasant at first but I get uset to them very fast, or muscle pain during the sittings). But a few times i managed to do so, and 1 time I think I overcame them during the sitting. They somehow stopped and I felt like meditating at the next step, felt a bit of peacefullness and bliss, but not that intense.

If you can endure these sensations one day, I recommend you to try just accept them. Do not resist them. It's hard, but once you've done so successfully, the sensations change in a way. Like they are still there, but they are somehow... different. And better.

Idk how to describe, but not resisting to them will help you, but I'm sure you already know that.

Good luck!

[Beginner Mind]

On 11/17/2020 at 3:16 PM, meow_meow said:

I got to the feeling of "Who is there to decide to move my hand? "Who is there to decide to breath in?  Who is there to breathe out?'
Who, what decides to do anything? If this "I" is just basically a container of the past, social conditioning, a container of beliefs and assumptions?

There is no doer in you or anyone else.  Each human organism is simply acting out its genes and conditioning, without choice, without free will.  As you alluded to, even breathing is not in our control.  So, best to just sit back, relax, and see what life presents to 'you' in each moment.

[Mu_]

On 11/17/2020 at 3:36 PM, meow_meow said:

Yes, I've done it before, but this time it seems insanely sick.

Sound from computer speakers don't even feel like their coming from the speakers.
When people speak it feels like the sound is not coming out of their mouths.

Visual field feels the same.

Physical sensations feel like their there on their own, no-one is there to feel them, I'm somewhere "In the background"

Ya as Leo said, self love is key and don't be reluctant to take a few days off or even a week or two if needed (you may need more, and its all good).

Another thing that may be useful to let in and maybe grounding or reducing of fear is when you get into this space "Physical sensations feel like their there on their own, no-one is there to feel them, I'm somewhere "In the background"  Just notice that ALL of this takes place in You.  Your not aware of it happening outside of you, its happening within/as You.  "Background" is a feeling, in You/Experiencing.  "Physical sensations feeling like their on their own" happens in You/Experience itself.  "No-one there to feel them" is happening in You/Experiencing.  This is always happening even when you are not aware of You.

[James123]

On 11/17/2020 at 11:16 PM, meow_meow said:

So, as usual, I'll start with a quick intro of my characters enlightenment stats:

• I've been meditating almost daily for ~1.2 years (35mins)
• No psychedelics
• "Love", "God", "Oneness" are yet to be discovered and still remain a mystery to me at this time.
• and I've done ~6months of self-inquiry sessions 3-4 times a week.

Up until this now I've been practicing meditation technique of just looking at my thoughts, letting them go and re-focusing on my breath.
For the past ~3weeks I switched to "Do nothing technique" and I feel that shit just hit the deck.

How?

I?
I got to the feeling of "Who is there to decide to move my hand? "Who is there to decide to breath in?  Who is there to breathe out?'
Who, what decides to do anything? If this "I" is just basically a container of the past, social conditioning, a container of beliefs and assumptions?
What the FUCK is there?

As soon as I get to that point of dropping language (assuming that those are just symbols with social-conditioned meaning), and asking those questions in a no-question way, like "just looking" sends me into nauseous, suicidal, torture-like feelings, tears start coming (I'm a 27 year old man ffs) and it gets extreme and  I MEAN EXTREMELY hard to continue my self-inquiry session, to the point that this "I" can't take it no more.

So my question is - How can .. I ? Continue past this point.. I can't even meditate normally anymore, I barely sleep (again) because of nightmares.. I have crazy dejavus of previous dreams that feel insase ...

I mean - I've had previous similar experiences when practicing kriya yoga, but this is just insane and I'm feeling like my mind is going insane.

EDIT: Also my intuition is going crazy, How do I know it's intuition? I don't know it. I fucking feel it like I've never felt it since childhood. I ask questions to myself, and receive answers even before I've asked the question and the answer is emotional, not rational, and based on the feeling comes rational decision. ThIs is INSANE.

Tips?

Who, breathe in, breathe out, decides are just thoughts. Whatever you learn since you birth (which is a thought again), forget it.