Help!!!! The Enlightenment Insights Has Become Very Deep

[theinevitableandi]

You feel like you are a leaf blowing in the wind ? What if you are the wind and what you  identify as YOU is the leaf.  or maybe You are both the Wind and the Leaf but you have identified only with the leaf only. You are resisting something . Maybe contemplating on what you are resisting will bring more insight. Typically we resist the way we see life.( thoughts like "this should or this shouldn't be happening" ) But we forget that the way we see life is a concept not the way life is per say . We have mistaken the map for the territory. 

Shanti shanti - Peace 

Edited September 2, 2016 by theinevitableandi

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

http://deconstructingyourself.com/mindful-awakening.html

[Capethaz]

@Happiness Maybe you are in the Dark Night Territory, maybe not. Anyway my advice to you is to practice Samatha at least one hour a day to get joy and equanimity. And find another things to distract you besides Enlightenment and Meditation.

[Travis]

@Azrael

On 9/2/2016 at 3:12 AM, Azrael said:

@Happiness, when I'm experiencing what you ware writing, I go for some Matt Khan videos.

Basically, there comes a time when you get bored of your own fear. I had these cycles you write about so deep and intense (because my unconscious seems to be filled with a lot of unresolved shit) that at some point I completely gave up trying to get rid of them. It just wasn't possible. I just accepted them fully as me (this really just happened to me at some point).

Then, the most amazing things followed.

Ahhh that was some medicine. Thanks for sharing. 

[Dodo]

On 02/09/2016 at 9:12 AM, Azrael said:

@Happiness, when I'm experiencing what you ware writing, I go for some Matt Khan videos.

Basically, there comes a time when you get bored of your own fear. I had these cycles you write about so deep and intense (because my unconscious seems to be filled with a lot of unresolved shit) that at some point I completely gave up trying to get rid of them. It just wasn't possible. I just accepted them fully as me (this really just happened to me at some point).

Then, the most amazing things followed.

I think you just changed my life Just watched Matt Khan's Feel Good Now video and it was absolutely mindblowingly good. It really felt like he taught me something that I had forgotten long ago. Not to mention I laughed and cried my ass off  :') 

So yea thanks for that! I feel refreshed. I guess everything comes when the time is right.

[sgn]

Warning: Depressing, whiny, self-pity and maybe deluded post.

Haven't felt like responding here, but I've read all the comments daily. Thank you everyone.
Well. I've hit a new low. So so so low.
I feel I maybe had the opportunity of a lifetime. Not just a opportunity. But THE opportunity.
Talking about the day I started this thread.
I just was too scared to surrender to it. Well I maybe sound deluded. I don't know. But it really felt I was so close that day. I don't know how it could get any closer.
It was like I could see myself and others unfiltered. Without any mental layers. No judgments, words, pictures, concepts and all that. Just saw what was there completely without a sense of a self behind. And much else which I have describes in earlier posts. I could maybe write even more.
Insight is back to "normal" with only the memories left, which can't get even close.
It was just such a chaotic experience. The perspective I've had on reality all my life just flipped in a day or so. Everything felt like a lie. All that I felt had meaning and value. Just gone.
Like you suddenly realize everyone including yourself is robots, friends family. It felt heartbreaking when realizing it was just nothing there. The relationships and the feeling of having a bond with people. Just gone. Deep feelings of loneliness, isolation, fear. No meaning, pointless etc. Physical symptoms and no sleep for long, no food. The mind playing tricks etc. I think the combination of everything just led me to not having the guts to surrender. Didn't feel in the best state to make the biggest decision of my life. And was also afraid it would get more intense.
The reason my mind opened up so quickly I think just after starting to contemplate for like 5 days, I think is because I went from 0 to 100. Almost every waking hour, and not much sleep either. I contemplated things very intense and deep that I haven't thought about before and took in so many new perspectives all at once. And my mind just became more and more open to it, and sucked it in.
Anyway know I am at complete bottom. Not of the insight. Because it have passed. Only memories remain like I said which doesn't affect me that much. But a deep deep deep feeling of regret.
What if I almost had it? And now instead I'm back to depression and all sorts of problems I still have to work on in my psyche the loooong and hard way. And even if I do it'll never be close to enlightenment which may never come. It's just that I don't know what could've happened if I surrendered. Maybe nothing.Which feels hard to believe.  But at least then I know and couldn't criticize myself for it, because I've done what I could and it was not supposed to happen. But now I don't know.
Feels like I maybe had one chance to change everything in just one day, but passed on it and now instead I'm back to square one with a long long way ahead of me with hard work which may never lead to enlightenment or anything close to it anyway.
So the feeling of regret is so deep I feel I can't live with it.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Happiness

[abrakamowse]

Don't judge yourself @Happiness for what happened. The best thing is to feel blessed for what you experienced and continue your path.

Don't feel that you didn't take an opportunity or you didn't do the correct thing. That's the ego, just observe your thoughts.

Do other things, take a break and don't judge, don't jump to conclusions. What happened is what it was supposed to happen, not what your ego says. He will say "oh, yeah... you didn't do it... you got scared... bla bla bla...

If something happens, remember is not you who is doing it.

Edited September 8, 2016 by abrakamowse

[DoubleYou]

36 minutes ago, Happiness said:

Like you suddenly realize everyone including yourself is robots, friends family. It felt heartbreaking when realizing it was just nothing there. The relationships and the feeling of having a bond with people. Just gone. 

There's a much deeper connection with these people than the one you are afraid of losing.

[sgn]

31 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

Don't judge yourself @Happiness for what happened. The best thing is to feel blessed for what you experienced and continue your path.

Don't feel that you didn't take an opportunity or you didn't do the correct thing. That's the ego, just observe your thoughts.

Do other things, take a break and don't judge, don't jump to conclusions. What happened is what it was supposed to happen, not what your ego says. He will say "oh, yeah... you didn't do it... you got scared... bla bla bla...

If something happens, remember is not you who is doing it.

Thank you.

[sgn]

11 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

There's a much deeper connection with these people than the one you are afraid of losing.

I've realized this. Sat just thinking about it actually. How enlightened people view others. I guess it's a strong feeling of love, empathy and oneness to everything.
Since I didn't get enlightened or had any "good" feelings that came with the insight I just experienced everything as...bad.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Happiness

[abrakamowse]

1 hour ago, Happiness said:

Like you suddenly realize everyone including yourself is robots, friends family. It felt heartbreaking when realizing it was just nothing there. The relationships and the feeling of having a bond with people. Just gone.

This came to my mind when I read that:

Matthew 12:46-50New International Version (NIV)

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers

46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

[Salaam]

On 8/30/2016 at 9:32 AM, Happiness said:

When I see a person it's scary as hell. It feels like I really get that it's really no one behind all that matter. I view them differently. And I view them more as biological machines now. Humans now triggers emotions and body  physical reactions in me. Seeing them closer to what they are. I think of nature, myself and others as just one giant machine now. Where everything just reacts to everything. Chains reactions. And free will seems not like a question any more. Which I have contemplated very hard. It is none. Something just happens because, something happened just before that, and something before caused that to happen etc etc etc.... Chain reactions. Or like energy moving to affect other energy and reason that even appeared is because of energy before that etc.  For examples if a person choose to move a body part or gets asked to say a random word is just a whole lot of energy before that reacting to each other than causing that thought . So there really was no free will. You can also picture everything like a giant machine. Everything in nature, including all biological organisms etc, like a big machine of gears. One gear moves based on which gears moved before that etc, and that before that etc. and because of this, that gear moves. And the reason why a specific thought for example appears can be explained that a gear moving caused it to move/appear, and the gears can be other thoughts, some sensations in body or something from outside circumstances for example. You can think that the gears are everywhere and just reacting to each other.

Obviously the insight is not complete. But it feels VERY fucking deep.

Be careful with these conclusions you call insights. You are right that they are extremely incomplete (all insights are incomplete, for there is always potential for more) and if you let yourself treat them as a complete picture of reality, rather than a temporary conclusion, then it will cause you trouble and depression. You still don't see yet what causes the chain reactions from one direction to another, which is the connective tension. People, things, beings are NOT just gears. That's just what your limited view is expressing to you, until you uncover more nuanced and multi-dynamic insights.

Keep in mind that there is more, understand that these things feel the way they do to you because the contrast between your old view and your new view is so wide, BUT that does not mean your new view is all that developed. Once you've been doing this for years, the shifts in view from new internalizations become normal and not that big of a deal, due to the distance of contrast being narrower. It's like the first and second step feels like there is a mile in between them, but the 2,900th and 2,901th step has just millimeters... however the difference between those two groupings is like the difference between controlling a tug boat and a fighter jet. With a tug boat you have to turn the steering wheel real wide to get the boat to move slowly in a direction, but with a fighter jet, just the smallest, subtle touch on the throttle can send you in any direction you want.

Anyways, make sure you don't lose your touch with and respect for humanity, because it's an important counter-balance to the sheer expanse of the universe.

By the way that feeling of depth comes because this was an identity level internalization of a new view, and identity level changes create cascades of reaction across a whole gamut of automated systems. I know people on here talk about no-self/no-identity, but structurally speaking there is a system that handles deep level internalizations of the way we see and respond to the world. It's very crucial to learning and the automation of physical movements and abilities as well as mediating our view and perspective of reality.

For example there is a huge difference in ability between someone who has studied martial arts movements for so long that they've internalized it into who they feel themselves to be and a person whose reviewed some movements in a book and only has an intellectual level internalization of them. This holds true for any other pattern of movement, whether physical, emotional, etc.  Like identity level internalizations of sexual dominance or self-authority.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Salaam

[Salaam]

That fading of view or experience is normal by the way. It's your body doing it's homeostasis thing, 2 steps forward, 1 step back. You kept some bits and pieces and now you get to work with them till it's time to do the next "2 steps forward".

That view you experienced kind of sucked anyways, no offense. I mean that, because it was still missing out on a lot of stuff. But, that's because the experience was partly new experience and partly building off your current level of development, health, self-expression, capability, etc.

This stuff is NOT a linear process. Growth is staggeringly multi-dynamic and after enough steps in the process you begin to understand the pattern much better. Really because you get to experience deep level change everyday and start to understand your reactions to the change. The rise, the fading, the jumping to conclusions, real change versus stimulation/noise, etc. The pain, which creates impact that shakes loose stupid stuff, which creates a space for you to further refine and expand, till you hit another wall and do it again, but in slightly different ways every single time.

Shits a trip... I can't even begin to explain the things I go through to average people after doing this for so many years.

[sgn]

Thanks for taking the time to explain it in such detail my good sir. Really appreciate it. Will be coming back to read it and think about this some more.
And maybe some questions. That's all for now 

[Salaam]

1 hour ago, Happiness said:

Thanks for taking the time to explain it in such detail my good sir. Really appreciate it. Will be coming back to read it and think about this some more.
And maybe some questions. That's all for now 

No problem man, I hope it helps clear some things up for you.

I also have a journal around here, that kind of shows some of those steps I was talking about and how they integrated and built up in my life. Maybe it might aid with perspective or something... hopefully it makes enough sense for you to get something out of it.

And yea, if you have any questions just ask.
 

 

[sgn]

Based on everything I've explained about my experience in this thread, and the strong sense that I saw what's true, am I deluded to think I was close to enlightenment? I mean I really for the first time saw myself and others without mental filtering like I've explained before. No filtering, no layering, no adding.  And it made me realize how much was in the way before that I didn't knew. . And is now back once again. I really felt I didn't had any judgments about anyone for example, Which I had raised my awareness to before this and realized I'm doing a lot. And while it felt scary to look at myself and others just seeing what is there without adding something to it, I at the same time felt more empathy towards others and myself then I've ever felt. Felt like everyone is the same and connected in a way. Also the sense of dis-identification with body that I experienced to some extent. The fluctuating presence in things I saw. Also a thing I have trouble to explain, that I was super conscious of every movement I made. Sense that is was just moving and being observed and the feeling there was really not an "I" who was controlling that. I had been thinking very intense of the free will question and came to the conclusion that I don't think it exists. But what happened here was some sort of just sensing and a feeling of knowing 100% that it didn't.
And really the moment I started experiencing such a big shift in perspective that led to all this, was when I sat and contemplated through the night and for the first time felt like I really started to see what I am and grasp the meaning of "is". And that I haven't seen it like that anymore since,.

As usual this posts became much longer than I expected.

[comp13]

@Happiness Remember that the actual experience you had was infinite peace and bliss. Those negative emotions don't really exist. They're all just made up in retrospect.

Edited September 9, 2016 by comp13

[DoubleYou]

@Happiness You say you didn't experience any filtering, but did you still experience any thought or judgment during this experience? Don't forget that these are things you can be aware of as well. The mind won't shut up, it will still judge. It will do what it has always done. But there is no I that identifies with that. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by DoubleYou
English is difficcullt

[sgn]

Feels like I'm starting to realize what it means to "be here". A week ago or something I was sitting down and just looked around at everything that exists in the room like: that exists there, that exits there, and I exist here etc. Not just thinking about me and the other things I saw as something separate, like me AND the room. More like thinking this that I am, that exists in this place is just something that's exits here like other things in the room.
It's a presence right here, not as a identity, person or human. It just something here that is, that exists. In the same way it's something over there that exits, but you really don't actually know what it is. And nothing is separate, it's really one. Don't know how to explain.
Sometimes I don't see it. But the last couples of days it's feels like the realization gets more deeper. Feels like my body starts to move back and forth, like it switches place a little in the room. Also that things in the room is moving. Anyone else experience this? =)

Yesterday, for the second time, I also could see clear there is no self there. And it became clearer how everything just reacts to each other, the pictures in the head, the inner voice etc, creating the illusion. It felt so obvious. I think so much happens in the subconscious, and just a little of it comes up to the surface, and I guess what's up on the surface, that can be "seen" is what you feel like you are controlling. Anyway this terrifies me every time. Empty, pointless, nothing..  

[abrakamowse]

24 minutes ago, Happiness said:

 Anyway this terrifies me every time. Empty, pointless, nothing..  

It can't terrify "you" because there's not really a "you". At least not a separated "you".

Edited September 22, 2016 by abrakamowse