Do you still experience internal hallucination on LSD after experiencing no-self?

[4201]

Back in my early LSD days, I had a lot of internal hallucinations and they were a lot of fun. On my first trip I had lots of repeating line patterns but then once I realized what they were, they totally disappeared forever. I still had lots of inner images though, like an internal movie. The mind would create art sometimes architecture and stuff like this. I could close my eyes and I would get mind-blowing "inner drawings" that would perfectly frame how I'm fooling myself for instance or I would imagine the inside of my brain (as if when I close my eyes I would see in it lol).

But then someday In the middle of my sleep totally sober, I realized no-self for the first time and I was realizing that the "me" I kept seeing in my head was just a visualization of my ego. Since then, the inner TV is off! No more inner art and stuff like this. It's not a real issue, I still enjoy my trips but they feel much more sober I guess? They lost a level of dankness to say the least, some bit of magic that felt good. Now if I take a bigger dose than my usual (like 300ug instead of 200ug) I can close my eyes and force myself to generate images but it feels forced. Back then I was just receiving those images without asking for them and they were interesting to ponder to.

Is this something you experienced as well? Maybe its just something dumb like freezing and unfreezing my stash all the time is what is making it lose its potency.

EDIT: Perhaps I should add that before having the no self realization I had a bad trip in which I was out of touch with the inner TV (basically saw it as reality instead of an inner TV). After the trip I thought I had "fucked myself" and I thought that the part of the brain responsible for the inner TV has been damaged somehow. Now I realize how stupid this thought is but it still comes back sometimes. I guess the true motivation behind this post is to get to the end of this rabbit hole. So I got 2 potential reasons on why the inner TV went away and I'm curious if any of you had the experience of the inner TV going away... The mystery of the inner TV 

Edited September 7, 2020 by 4201

[Arzack]

300 ug isn't enough to do spiritual work/evolution/progress.

500-600 ug is the minimum dose to have spiritual experiences.

Check my sign. for info.

[4201]

7 minutes ago, Arzack said:

300 ug isn't enough to do spiritual work/evolution/progress.

500-600 ug is the minimum dose to have spiritual experiences.

Check my sign. for info.

Not sure how your dosage recommendation is related to my question but let me tell you that the minimum to do spiritual work is 0ug

Seriously though, have you ever experienced some kind of gradual long-term tolerance? How does your experience of your first tab relate to a tab now? Perhaps 500-600 ug would indeed bring back my inner TV like I used to have at 200 ug back then, but I also have the gut feeling that it was taken away because of an understanding of what it was, not because of the drug itself. Like it stopped being relevant I guess

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by 4201

[Arzack]

Just now, 4201 said:

Not sure how your dosage recommendation is related to my question but let me tell you that the minimum to do spiritual work is 0ug

Seriously though, have you ever experienced some kind of gradual long-term tolerance? How does your experience of your first tab relate to a tab now? Perhaps 500-600 ug would indeed bring back my inner TV like I used to have at 200 ug back then, but I also have the gut feeling that it was taken away because of an understanding of what it was, not because of the drug itself. Like it stopped being relevant I guess

 

I mean 600 ug after a 2 weeks tolerance break of course.

[4201]

4 minutes ago, Arzack said:

I mean 600 ug after a 2 weeks tolerance break of course.

No I mean long-term tolerance. Like do you think in 1 year of doing 600 ug every 2 weeks its gonna be as powerful?

[Arzack]

Just now, 4201 said:

No I mean long-term tolerance. Like do you think in 1 year of doing 600 ug every 2 weeks its gonna be as powerful?

Yes, just have to wait 2 weeks be·tween trips.

[4201]

1 minute ago, Arzack said:

Yes, just have to wait 2 weeks be·tween trips.

Yes I know about regular tolerance. Thank you for sharing your experience...

[Arzack]

Just now, 4201 said:

Yes I know about regular tolerance. Thank you for sharing your experience...

you're welcome. Be careful though. Such high dosages can be dangerous. That's why I advice locking yourself with a timed padlock and handcuffs. I's explained in my subreddit in my signature, check it out. Don't be a a fallen hero.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Arzack

[Vittorio]

Lol i had powerful spiritual experiences with 75-300 ug (my best friend too exactly as many other people). 

Stop spreading misinformation. If people followed you, they would have bad trips.

You don't consider sensibility to that specific psychedelic, spiritual advancement, tolerance, if they did other trips or not (and how they went), their set of beliefs etc. 

600 ug is a crazy high dosage.

On 7.9.2020 at 4:19 AM, Arzack said:

300 ug isn't enough to do spiritual work/evolution/progress.

500-600 ug is the minimum dose to have spiritual experiences.

Check my sign. for info.

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Vittorio

[Javfly33]

8 hours ago, Arzack said:

300 ug isn't enough to do spiritual work/evolution/progress.

500-600 ug is the minimum dose to have spiritual experiences.

Check my sign. for info.

500-600ug is a pretty dangerous dose for a lot of people.

With my sensitivity with Psychedelics at that dose I would probably lose the ability to see anything and it could become physically dangerous

[acidgoofy]

10 hours ago, Arzack said:

Yes, just have to wait 2 weeks be·tween trips.

sorry but that is total bullshit!

2 weeks can be enough to reset about 200 ug and still it wont be a full experience

after 500-600 ug you need AT LEAST one month to have decent experience again..

I once waited 3 months after 500 ug and still had a bit tolerance

Edited September 7, 2020 by acidgoofy

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, Arzack said:

That's why I advice locking yourself with a timed padlock and handcuffs

Thank you! Every time I read your posts I laugh for 5 minutes

[Nahm]

@4201

No self, no mind. Psych’s are ideal for this work, obviously, but thought can attempt to hijack them, seemingly preventing the collapse of the inner and outer worlds. 

[4201]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@4201

No self, no mind. Psych’s are ideal for this work, obviously, but thought can attempt to hijack them, seemingly preventing the collapse of the inner and outer worlds. 

I think I haven't fully realized how no-mind is true. If there's no mind then why do I have automatic/unconscious behaviors? If all there is is thought, then what is homeostasis? Same for habits, if all is thought why do habits take time to form?

I'd love to ask myself those questions on psychedelics but in practice, I still have automatic dysfunctional behavior that came from a belief I got rid of months ago and working through those usually take the time of the entire trip. I do realize how thought is tricky, because thought is constantly trying to make me believe that old belief automatically, even though I know how bullshit that belief is. It's as if there's a mind that is slow to change. Although I am open to the idea there's no mind, I just don't see it right now.

Heck, why is thought tricky? Could it be because the mind has "habits" or automatic behaviors that are oriented toward creating and maintaining a self-identity?

I do see how thought is probably what created the change in my inner TV and I can also see how collapsing inner and outer worlds would make this concern irrelevant. Yet there's still curiousity about how this whole subconscious thing work. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by 4201

[Bulgarianspirit]

I have a similar problem, before psychs i close my eyes and i still sort of see in the room or a image of the room,the shadows of objects.

Now i see emptiness. Pretty messed up.

[Nahm]

On 9/7/2020 at 10:19 AM, 4201 said:

I think I haven't fully realized how no-mind is true.

“True” is a thought no mind is aware of. “No mind” is a thought awareness is aware of. Awareness is a thought you are aware of. 

Quote

 

If there's no mind then why do I have automatic/unconscious behaviors? If all there is is thought, then what is homeostasis? Same for habits, if all is thought why do habits take time to form?

No-mind is aware of the thought “I have”. The simplest answer is that you don’t, as “I” is a thought no-mind is aware of. “All is thought” is a thought no mind is aware of. 

Quote

I'd love to ask myself those questions on psychedelics but in practice, I still have automatic dysfunctional behavior that came from a belief I got rid of months ago and working through those usually take the time of the entire trip. I do realize how thought is tricky, because thought is constantly trying to make me believe that old belief automatically, even though I know how bullshit that belief is. It's as if there's a mind that is slow to change. Although I am open to the idea there's no mind, I just don't see it right now.

Heck, why is thought tricky? Could it be because the mind has "habits" or automatic behaviors that are oriented toward creating and maintaining a self-identity?

I do see how thought is probably what created the change in my inner TV and I can also see how collapsing inner and outer worlds would make this concern irrelevant. Yet there's still curiousity about how this whole subconscious thing work. 

Thought is so tricky, it can seem as if this is the “not good” / “not good feeling” part of the ride...and there is an “is good” / “good feeling” part of the ride which “comes” “later”. Meanwhile, what is being attracted, is the not good feeling part of the ride experience. The nature of it not feeling good is that you are creating it as you go, and there is something else in your heart you want to create more, and feel your being through your wanting. Start creating that. That one problem must be resolved to move forward so to speak, is just another tricky thought. Think about what you want more. It is coming from the same source as the thoughts. Thought is sooo sneaky, you can even create the appearance that you are not creating, and are not the creator. I am beginning to suspect that you are missing how truly amazing you are, as you are, whatever you are doing. 

[4201]

58 minutes ago, Nahm said:

“True” is a thought no mind is aware of. “No mind” is a thought awareness is aware of. Awareness is a thought you are aware of. 

No-mind is aware of the thought “I have”. The simplest answer is that you don’t, as “I” is a thought no-mind is aware of. “All is thought” is a thought no mind is aware of.

Basically anytime I will think there is a mind then I will "create" the mind by acting "subconsciously", in accordance to the belief there's a mind.

The subconscious behavior is a result of belief which is a result of the trickiness of thoughts that managed to convince me again somehow. Can't we say then that trickiness of thoughts and homeostasis are basically the same thing?

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Thought is so tricky, it can seem as if this is the “not good” / “not good feeling” part of the ride...and there is an “is good” / “good feeling” part of the ride which “comes” “later”. Meanwhile, what is being attracted, is the not good feeling part of the ride experience. The nature of it not feeling good is that you are creating it as you go, and there is something else in your heart you want to create more, and feel your being through your wanting. Start creating that. 

I totally agree.

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

That one problem must be resolved to move forward so to speak, is just another tricky thought. Think about what you want more. It is coming from the same source as the thoughts.

I want understanding. So when problems arise, I kinda want to understand why. I'd like to understand why I screw myself over everyday. Perhaps I believe that this would help me.

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Thought is sooo sneaky, you can even create the appearance that you are not creating, and are not the creator.

I cannot see the "appearance of not being the creator" in my experience right now. Perhaps its just too subtle to be noticed in the middle of all of this. Therefore for me, "being the creator" is just a thought, one that I wouldn't judge true or false.

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

I am beginning to suspect that you are missing how truly amazing you are, as you are, whatever you are doing. 

My mind is deeply addicted to shame, and is always looking for it either in myself or in other people. Now I know there's no mind and so it's just me that's doing that because I think I have a mind that is addicted to shame. But if somebody would be to assess who I am by looking at my past, they would come to this conclusion. I will do my best to stop assuming I am that but I think (and am pretty sure) thought is gonna trick me again, as it always does.

Thank you very much for your answer.

[Nahm]

9 hours ago, 4201 said:

Can't we say then that trickiness of thoughts and homeostasis are basically the same thing?

Yes, homeostasis is a thought. 

9 hours ago, 4201 said:

I want understanding. So when problems arise, I kinda want to understand why. I'd like to understand why I screw myself over everyday. Perhaps I believe that this would help me

You’re simply choosing to focus on what you want to. If & when you want to focus on something else, you will, just as you are now. It’s worth noticing how all evidence reflects there is only now, this moment...but in believing the story you’re telling, there is “everyday”...and in believing story, there is a “you” experiencing an “everyday”. 

9 hours ago, 4201 said:

I cannot see the "appearance of not being the creator" in my experience right now. Perhaps its just too subtle to be noticed in the middle of all of this. Therefore for me, "being the creator" is just a thought, one that I wouldn't judge true or false

It’s unseen. It’s felt. Everything, without exception, that you are seeing is the appearance of the creator. Imagine trying to find hay, in a haystack. At some point you would realize it is all hay. Again, not seen, felt, realized. You can also inspect for any separation between the “objects” you are seeing, the seeing, and the knowing of the seeing. There are often assumed separations, but when inspected it is realized there are not. 

9 hours ago, 4201 said:

My mind is deeply addicted to shame, and is always looking for it either in myself or in other people. Now I know there's no mind and so it's just me that's doing that because I think I have a mind that is addicted to shame. But if somebody would be to assess who I am by looking at my past, they would come to this conclusion. I will do my best to stop assuming I am that but I think (and am pretty sure) thought is gonna trick me again, as it always does.

Nobody is assessing who you are, and nobody is doing this by looking at your past. That someone is, and that they would come to any conclusions, is the story you’re telling, even though it does not feel good. It does not feel good, because it isn’t true. The misunderstanding is that there is a past, and that past happened to me. Yet neither a past nor a me can be found in direct experience now. “You in the past” is a thought, an idea, arising now. You are awareness, aware of, this story. Mindfully make the distinction between continuing to suppress emotion, and letting it out.

Also notice, shame requires two entities. One scenario is you did something to someone else, and feel ashamed for having done it. The other scenario is a more subtle & sneaky smoke & mirrors...that story plays out that there are two of you. The one which is present & aware, and the idea of you. That “you” is an idea. An idea is present, and awareness is aware of it. That “you” is not actually present, or aware, because it’s an idea. You are actually what is aware of it. 

[4201]

7 hours ago, Nahm said:

Yes, homeostasis is a thought. 

A thought that may help setting proper expectations though. If I live with the expectation of not getting tricked by thought, I will likely be frustrated everyday.

7 hours ago, Nahm said:

You’re simply choosing to focus on what you want to. If & when you want to focus on something else, you will, just as you are now. It’s worth notice I how all evidence reflects there is only now, this moment...but in believing the story you’re telling, there is “everyday”...and in believing story, there is a “you” experiencing an “everyday”. 

When I say I realized no-self I mean I realized that the character building process and identity maintaining process were totally useless and that life can be lived in a extremely peaceful way and pleasant way without a self. Yet it seemed to me at the time that, realizing this did not require letting go of the physical world and the idea that events follow each other. Believing that a shower has been taken 15 minutes ago did not and in my opinion should not prevent one from being self-less. 

Therefore currently, for me the idea of no-everyday doesn't make much sense to me. Being 100% honest I would admit that I don't know if the past actually happened but then I wouldn't know anything or be able to do anything. Anything I do relies on an understanding of how the physical world works.

I can see however how a self slips in there. It always does. "There's a me that gets screwed everyday by thoughts". This is definitely the story I'm telling right now which prevents me from being at peace.

7 hours ago, Nahm said:

It’s unseen. It’s felt. Everything, without exception, that you are seeing is the appearance of the creator. Imagine trying to find hay, in a haystack. At some point you would realize it is all hay. Again, not seen, felt, realized. You can also inspect for any separation between the “objects” you are seeing, the seeing, and the knowing of the seeing. There are often assumed separations, but when inspected it is realized there are not. 

What kind of feeling is that? I thought that feelings are reaction to many thoughts in parallel (opposed to logic which is the processing of thoughts one after the other). Could there be an assumption that if things are there, then there has to be something that created it?

Another way of interpreting what you said could be, assuming there is no physical world, just a conceptual world in which there are only thoughts, I am the one creating the thought. I think I could agree with this, although I do not experience creating my own thoughts right now. The disagreement here is whether the perceptions are created or not, to which I think not.

Perhaps before even talking about how I created the entire universe I would be better off experiencing how I am creating the thoughts. That would probably help understand the endless struggles against the tricky thoughts.

8 hours ago, Nahm said:

Nobody is assessing who you are, and nobody is doing this by looking at your past. That someone is, and that they would come to any conclusions, is the story you’re telling, even though it does not feel good. It does not feel good, because it isn’t true. The misunderstanding is that there is a past, and that past happened to me. Yet neither a past nor a me can be found in direct experience now. “You in the past” is a thought, an idea, arising now. You are awareness, aware of, this story.

Yes ok. But then if I had to bet money, I would probably bet that somewhere in the near future I will catch myself feeling ashamed of myself for some ridiculous reason. I know it is absurd and just a story, but in that story it is a common pattern that is observed. I would love to change the story but that only creates a story in which there's a me that is frustrated because the change doesn't happen as desired.

8 hours ago, Nahm said:

Mindfully make the distinction between continuing to suppress emotion, and letting it out.

IME emotions are let out when I realize how I've been screwing myself over. For instance in which way I was being ashamed of myself. This is always very tricky because it always get me where I expect it the least. Now you said I should let go of wanting to realize how I've been screwing myself, letting go of solving the puzzle. I think I have a problem with that as I want the value of understanding deeply how I've been doing that to not doing it again. At the same time I see how it's tiring because then I am at peace only 1% of the time, when I finally realize it.

8 hours ago, Nahm said:

Also notice, shame requires two entities. One scenario is you did something to someone else, and feel ashamed for having done it. The other scenario is a more subtle & sneaky smoke & mirrors...that story plays out that there are two of you. The one which is present & aware, and the idea of you. That “you” is an idea. An idea is present, and awareness is aware of it. That “you” is not actually present, or aware, because it’s an idea. You are actually what is aware of it. 

Yes I can see that. I can confirm it is almost always the second case. I often feel ashamed of wasting my potential with procrastination for instance.

[Nahm]

8 hours ago, 4201 said:

A thought that may help setting proper expectations though. If I live with the expectation of not getting tricked by thought, I will likely be frustrated everyday.

Yes, don’t add that.

8 hours ago, 4201 said:

When I say I realized no-self I mean I realized that the character building process and identity maintaining process were totally useless and that life can be lived in a extremely peaceful way and pleasant way without a self. Yet it seemed to me at the time that, realizing this did not require letting go of the physical world and the idea that events follow each other. Believing that a shower has been taken 15 minutes ago did not and in my opinion should not prevent one from being self-less. 

Therefore currently, for me the idea of no-everyday doesn't make much sense to me. Being 100% honest I would admit that I don't know if the past actually happened but then I wouldn't know anything or be able to do anything. Anything I do relies on an understanding of how the physical world works.

I can see however how a self slips in there. It always does. "There's a me that gets screwed everyday by thoughts". This is definitely the story I'm telling right now which prevents me from being at peace.

Wonderful. 

8 hours ago, 4201 said:

What kind of feeling is that? I thought that feelings are reaction to many thoughts in parallel (opposed to logic which is the processing of thoughts one after the other). Could there be an assumption that if things are there, then there has to be something that created it?

Created implies past tense creation which implies physical solidarity, time, a physical self, and or separate objects. Being creates by, being. Unexplainable magic.

8 hours ago, 4201 said:

Another way of interpreting what you said could be, assuming there is no physical world, just a conceptual world in which there are only thoughts, I am the one creating the thought. I think I could agree with this, although I do not experience creating my own thoughts right now. The disagreement here is whether the perceptions are created or not, to which I think not.

Perhaps before even talking about how I created the entire universe I would be better off experiencing how I am creating the thoughts. That would probably help understand the endless struggles against the tricky thoughts.

Creating = Being. 

8 hours ago, 4201 said:

Yes ok. But then if I had to bet money, I would probably bet that somewhere in the near future I will catch myself feeling ashamed of myself for some ridiculous reason. I know it is absurd and just a story, but in that story it is a common pattern that is observed. I would love to change the story but that only creates a story in which there's a me that is frustrated because the change doesn't happen as desired.

When it is noticed that time (future) and an idea of you in the future are what’s being thought about, and you are presence, awareness, of that thought...then it is realized there isn’t actually a future, or a self. You might consider believing the arising thoughts is reaction, and meditation is letting them go, which purifies of reaction and is liberation from recreating shame. 

8 hours ago, 4201 said:

IME emotions are let out when I realize how I've been screwing myself over.

I hear ya, but there are not two of you. There isn’t another you which you are screwing over, only the thought believed, and feeling not resonating. 

8 hours ago, 4201 said:

For instance in which way I was being ashamed of myself. This is always very tricky because it always get me where I expect it the least. Now you said I should let go of wanting to realize how I've been screwing myself, letting go of solving the puzzle. I think I have a problem with that as I want the value of understanding deeply how I've been doing that to not doing it again. At the same time I see how it's tiring because then I am at peace only 1% of the time, when I finally realize it.

Yes I can see that. I can confirm it is almost always the second case. I often feel ashamed of wasting my potential with procrastination for instance.

As you said, there is the realization there is no self. This is thinking about your self. But you are you, awareness. Without the thinking of a my self, there is just...potential. Practically speaking, whatever’s been procrastinated...do it for literally two minutes, and that is enough. Notice any baggage brought to it, and breathe, relax, and focus on seeing, hearing & feeling.