What stage is Putin as a leader?

[Lindsay]

I know this was 2 years ago and maybe you guys already discussed Putin in the past. I’m just curious. Is Putin as evil as the media makes him out to be? Or are they correct for not trusting him? Why didn’t they publish the full interview? Why was Megan Kelly trying so hard to get him to say they are in a another Cold War arms race? Is he speaking truth? Or is he a mastermind manipulator and knows how to deflect all the questions on  America’s decision to pull out of the treaty in 2002? To what extent should we trust Putin? Is Putin trying to point out that Americans are in denial about their own crimes? 

[Lyubov]

He is an authoritarian leader who likes to deflect confrontation over his country's own problems by bringing up other problems in other countries, scapegoating, false equivalencies, etc. Distraction is really all he is capable of doing when it comes to influencing the political narrative. He is red/blue. His cooperation depends on whether or not the countries gaining strength have a model of government that delegitimizes his. It's one of the reason he likes a sort of hands off approach with countries not working together and minding their own business. His system wouldn't survive if other countries are developing democratically so he needs to stall this progress geographically around him as well as abroad. It's also the reason his country is most aligned and strategically friendly with other authoritarian countries like China and Iran. I would say he isn't as scary or "bad" as the west makes him out to be but I think he is limited quite a bit from doing anything grisly by many of the political forces globally and his country's actual sphere of influence. There really isn't any clear political direction under his leadership and they have little influence beyond former soviet states so all they can really do is try to slow down democratic process world wide to delay the inevitable toppling of Russia for a second time like in the 90s. He isn't an entire idiot though and is willing to cooperate on certain issues internationally. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Lyubov

[Leo Gura]

He's not evil, but if you challenge his power, he will have your family poisoned.

That's how the Russian mob works.

He's definitely a mastermind manipulator. He couldn't hold power in Russia any other way.

Don't confuse Russian leaders with dumb American leaders like Trump or Bush. To rule in Russia you gotta be a ruthless mastermind. Leaders aren't elected in Russia, they have to claw their way to the top through Machiavellian talent.

It's Game of Thrones and Putin is Little Finger.

[Lindsay]

Thank you both for your opinions. I really appreciate it. 

[Apparition of Jack]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's Game of Thrones and Putin is Little Finger.

So you mean he's going to get outsmarted by a couple of teenage girls?

Edited August 9, 2020 by Apparition of Jack

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

So you mean he's going to get outsmarted by a couple of teenage girls?

Pussy Riot

 

[Lyubov]

Trump definitely looks mentally handicapped compared to Putin. It's staggering how unintelligent the average cable news viewer is in the US.

[peachboy]

A lot of people don't realise just how wealthy Putin is.

In context, Donald Trump has but a mere $2.1 billion.

Vladimir Putin has at least $40 billion, but his actual wealth could be as high as $200 billion.

The average salary in Russia is $600 a month. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, peachboy said:

Donald Trump has but a mere $2.1 billion

Trump is not a billionaire.

I would be surprised if Trump has more than $50 mil.

[Florian]

Just for my understanding.. Can higher Spiral Dynamics stages be defeated or extinguished by lower ones? Like Russia vs America? 

I guess yes, but I'm not 100% in the Spiral Dynamics game and from what I heard so far it seemed like at least those who are a certain stage won't get back down on a lower stage again. But does that also mean people on higher stages are also "more powerful" or immune to those on lower stages. (might sound like a stupid question idk but can't hurt to ask)

[Leo Gura]

Russia vs America could never defeat the other. But they could nuke the whole world.

[peachboy]

16 minutes ago, Florian said:

But does that also mean people on higher stages are also "more powerful" or immune to those on lower stages. (might sound like a stupid question idk but can't hurt to ask)

 

Angels and Animals.

The angel's true intention is to protect everything, including the animals. But if you were to go up to a lion on the Savanna and give it a big hug, it would surely rip you to shreds.

[Lyubov]

It depends what we mean by "defeat." Traditional war between developed countries is likely something that is going to stay in the past. We have developed past this mostly considering how intertwined everything is now with globalization. There isn't anything to defeat, just countries competing for how big their sphere of influence is and economic interests. Russia can beat the US in proxy wars. Victory in proxy conflicts is very important at keeping the current Russian regime appearing legitimate. In terms of influence they are only able to distract and muddy the current narrative. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Lyubov

[Florian]

So is it still possible for the world as a whole to get pushed back on the Spiral Dynamics scale when parts like Russia overtake parts like America? (just theoretically) Or generally any lower stage country or whatever gets rid of a higher stage one? That's what I want to understand.

10 hours ago, peachboy said:

 

Angels and Animals.

The angel's true intention is to protect everything, including the animals. But if you were to go up to a lion on the Savanna and give it a big hug, it would surely rip you to shreds.

So that means if the higher developed part is dumb then yes? 

[allislove]

I think Putin is red and blue in SD. Highly intelligent and sneaky person. One of the best orators. Never believe what he says :))

[Annoynymous]

Red/Blue

[zeroISinfinity]

On 9.8.2020. at 7:23 AM, Leo Gura said:

He's not evil, but if you challenge his power, he will have your family poisoned.

That's how the Russian mob works.

He's definitely a mastermind manipulator. He couldn't hold power in Russia any other way.

Don't confuse Russian leaders with dumb American leaders like Trump or Bush. To rule in Russia you gotta be a ruthless mastermind. Leaders aren't elected in Russia, they have to claw their way to the top through Machiavellian talent.

It's Game of Thrones and Putin is Little Finger.

Fuckin nailed it man.

Putin came from National security structures. Serious educated guy not naive or some corrupt buisnessman. 

Trump is a joke compared to Putin. Well he is a joke compared to any president or prime minister of any developed or powerful country. 

Doesn't matter if I love or hate Putin. But give US to Putin and he will rule it better then any high level  politician US will. Sounds wierd does it. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

But give US to Putin and he will rule it better then any high level  politician US will.

Putin's style of rule would not be suitable for the US's level of development. But for Russia it works pretty well.

[zeroISinfinity]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Putin's style of rule would not be suitable for the US's level of development. But for Russia, it works pretty well.

Putin style of rule Is dictatorship. That's what it is. Mafia at highest level of development.

But Trump is really a laughingstock when you make comparissons. 

I can't beleive that is US president. Blows my mind. 

[zeroISinfinity]

Problem is because that kind of dictatorship brings results (it does lets not lie about it), putin syndrome gets spreaded. 

Now my country is ruled pretty much by dictator which is slowly turning it into private state. 

Putin style is popular among uneducated people and those are most voters and voila you are stuck.