Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) It's a phrase that Leo emphasizes a lot. That reality as it is appearing in direct experience is exactly as it is. Nothing is hidden. There is no "stuff behind the scenes". There is no such thing as atoms and molecules. There is no mechanism behind it. All there is are those appearances!. Now from common sense perspective and day to day life this doesn't make any sense. We all function in life knowing that there is way more stuff than just what we perceive on the surface. Will give just give one example.. A jar of honey and I will put a drop of poison in it.. If I ask you to eat you won't eat it even tho you can't taste the poison or feel it in any way (except when it starts poisoning you). So just because you can't perceive the poison in any way (all you can perceive is the delicious honey) doesn't mean the poison doesn't exist! And that's why you don't eat the poisoned honey. We can apply the same principle to the "stuff behind the scenes". We don't perceive atoms and molecules and the cells in our bodies but that doesn't mean they are just imagination and concepts! Edited May 8, 2020 by Someone here "life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived " -Osho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) This includes memories/thoughts of "when he put poison in the honey". Can you find anything other than this?Try it out, and let me know if you can find anything else than whatever is happening. Edited May 8, 2020 by traveler Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 Just now, traveler said: This includes memories/thoughts of "when he put poison in the honey". Can you find anything other than this? Try it out, and let me know. Just suppose you didn't know the honey was poisend. You have no idea what is inside the jar. All you can perceive in your direct experience is the honey (it's smell and taste etc). Yet still if you eat it you gonna die from the poison. So something doesn't have to be in your direct experience to be real! It can be very real and significant yet you don't perceive it. Think of a cancer tumor for example. "life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived " -Osho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 @Someone here I would observe the meaning you give to “exist”, “real” and “imagined. Not a thought analysis. Simply observing - as if you were observing cells divide under a microscope. . . . I could give an explanation, yet it would likely go through a mind filter analyzing and deciding what counts as “exists”, “real”, “imagined”. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Someone here said: Just suppose you didn't know the honey was poisend. You have no idea what is inside the jar. All you can perceive in your direct experience is the honey (it's smell and taste etc). Yet still if you eat it you gonna die from the poison. So something doesn't have to be in your direct experience to be real! It can be very real and significant yet you don't perceive it. Think of a cancer tumor for example. You didn't perceive the honey get inserted into the jar from the factory either. You didn't perceive the jar get made in a glass factory. These are stories happening now. The story of someone that put poison in your honey is a story happening now. If there is poison in honey, there is poison in honey. If there is honey in bucket and not a jar, there is honey in bucket. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said: @Someone here I would observe the meaning you give to “exist”, “real” and “imagined. Not a thought analysis. Simply observing - as if you were observing cells divide under a microscope. . . . I could give an explanation, yet it would likely go through a mind filter analyzing and deciding what counts as “exists”, “real”, “imagined”. Well I don't agree that this "mind filter" and analysis and concepts are bad. I'm not sure why they are demonized in spiritual circles. The meaning of those words are more than obvious to everyone. Exist =real = they have objective presence in the actual world and serve certain functions regardless of how my mind perceived them. Imagined = a thought or image in my mind.. It might be a representation of something "real" in the world or just an arrangement of images to create a new image which has no representation in the actual world. Edited May 8, 2020 by Someone here "life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived " -Osho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, traveler said: You didn't perceive the honey get inserted into the jar from the factory either. You didn't perceive the jar get made in a glass factory. These are stories happening now. The story of someone that put poison in your honey is a story happening now. If there is poison in honey, there is poison in honey. If there is honey in bucket and not a jar, there is honey in bucket. Well yeah I didn't perceive those things but that doesn't mean they didn't happen!!. When you call a delivery you don't perceive the restaurant that you're calling or the food yet you give them special orders and you assume that they are real without you needing to perceive them. "life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived " -Osho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, Verdesbird said: just read my posts for that Would appreciate it if you link to them!. "life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived " -Osho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Someone here said: Well yeah I didn't perceive those things but that doesn't mean they didn't happen!!. When you call a delivery you don't perceive the restaurant that you're calling or the food yet you give them special orders and you assume that they are real without you needing to perceive them. They happened in the story. In the story there is cause and effect. Everything is in time and can be explained by time. This is illusory knowing. You get a sense of security when you know what this is. You dont actually know what this is. All of your stories are based on one single core belief: that you are a real person in a real world. Edited May 8, 2020 by traveler Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 48 minutes ago, Someone here said: It's a phrase that Leo emphasizes a lot. That reality as it is appearing in direct experience is exactly as it is. Nothing is hidden. There is no "stuff behind the scenes". There is no such thing as atoms and molecules. There is no mechanism behind it. All there is are those appearances!. Now from common sense perspective and day to day life this doesn't make any sense. We all function in life knowing that there is way more stuff than just what we perceive on the surface. Will give just give one example.. A jar of honey and I will put a drop of poison in it.. If I ask you to eat you won't eat it even tho you can't taste the poison or feel it in any way (except when it starts poisoning you). So just because you can't perceive the poison in any way (all you can perceive is the delicious honey) doesn't mean the poison doesn't exist! And that's why you don't eat the poisoned honey. We can apply the same principle to the "stuff behind the scenes". We don't perceive atoms and molecules and the cells in our bodies but that doesn't mean they are just imagination and concepts! Ya need an awakening to really grasp it because it requires a state of pure Being. But it is because of Absolute Infinity. Absolute Infinity is everything and nothing - thus it has no ground or is a hallucination. The substance of all of this is nothing. The substance of atoms, molecules....nothing. So reality is a giant Mind. Oneness has no ground because it is ABSOLUTELY everything. Nothing outside it. A hand cannot grasp itself, it just is itself. Wisdom. Truth. Love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, traveler said: They happened in the story. In the story is cause and effect. Everything is in time and can be explained by time. This is illusory knowing. You get a sense of security when you know what this is. You dont actually know what this is. All of your stories are based on one single core belief: that you are a real person in a real world. I disagree. I think the" story" is based on the real world. How is it that we all happened to create similar stories about how the world unfolds in linear time? Is because it does! If it doesn't we won't come up with such story in the first place. "life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived " -Osho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said: Absolute Infinity is everything and nothing - thus it has no ground or is a hallucination. The substance of all of this is nothing. The substance of atoms, molecules....nothing. So reality is a giant Mind. So is there atoms and molecules or there isn't? "life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived " -Osho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Someone here said: So is there atoms and molecules or there isn't? Imagination is reality so yes. They are being imagined by You as God. Is there an objective, physical reality behind the scenes? No. Atoms and molecules are held within your consciousness. If you inspect close enough, everything is held within your consciousness. Because consciousness is all there is! Wisdom. Truth. Love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Someone here said: So is there atoms and molecules or there isn't? You created atoms, molecules and you are the atoms and molecules. You are the human and you are the god. All is you. You are your body and at the same time you created your body. It is all you. "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said: Imagination is reality so yes. They are being imagined by You as God. Is there an objective, physical reality behind the scenes? No. Atoms and molecules are held within your consciousness. If you inspect close enough, everything is held within your consciousness. Because consciousness is all there is! How did you know that it was imagined by me? They don't seem to be imagined by me in any way. Also if they imagined by me why are they real for you as well? "life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived " -Osho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, James123 said: You created atoms, molecules and you are the atoms and molecules. You are the human and you are the god. All is you. You are your body and at the same time you created your body. It is all you. I didn't. Or at least I have no evidence for that. "life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived " -Osho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Someone here said: I disagree. I think the" story" is based on the real world. How is it that we all happened to create similar stories about how the world unfolds in linear time? Is because it does! If it doesn't we won't come up with such story in the first place. Because "we" are not real. There is an appearance of time, but there is no real time. Can you find time in your direct "experience"? Can you actually leave what IS to go to the past or future? This is infinitely empty and infinitely full. It can not be understood. Everything is real and unreal, it just is what it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, Someone here said: How did you know that it was imagined by me? They don't seem to be imagined by me in any way. You are not conscious that you're doing it. As i said it takes an awakening. 5 minutes ago, Someone here said: Also if they imagined by me why are they real for you as well? You ARE me! Its a mindfuck. Wisdom. Truth. Love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
