Virtually

How is it possible that Leo and Ralston disagree?

251 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

18 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Well, it’s hard to say, because Consciousness is prior to the brain. I had my first glimpse of non-duality on a mild mushroom dose. After the ‘trip’ it was impossible to say that the glimpse happened because of the mushrooms I ate. 

I spoke to Leo about this earlier, and as he says it is like ‘reality is like a placebo unto itself’. It wakes up to itself in a trillion different ways. 

As for ego, I 100% believe it is a product of the brain. If anything, my theory is that ‘spiritual practices’ and psychedelics MAY shut down the centers in the brain responsible for creating the perceived subject-object division of the world that non-awakened humans experience. I also have a theory that classic natural awakening might be an endougenous release of dmt, that effectively shuts down these centers in the brain. But again that is all speculative. Because Consciousness is prior to everything. And so cause & effect  flies out the window ultimately.

IMO Ralston is absolutely correct. The absolute is the absolute. There is no absoluter than absolute. Anything else is exploring relativy. The absolute is the ground out of which everything emanates. It has no form. It is Nothing. And that is what we are. Remove all ego and illusion/division, and what is left is the Absolute. It is very simple and direct.

Consciousness isn't prior to anything, I think there is still some physicalism/dualism in your perspective, because of how you have constructed a new perspective that is somehow opposed to the materialist perspective. You have not transcendet it in a way to include both in a harmonic fashion.

The brain is consciousness, there is no before, after, behind, infront, etc. other than beforeness, afterness, behindness and infrontness.

 

The flying out the window is as much consciousness as the brain is, you are performing the same trick in reverse. The Absolute being Absolute is not opposed to anything that was said. In my opinion the problem is that Ralston does fundamentally not see the nature of the Circle. He still expresses the possible within a framework of logic, causality and so forth. "It is impossible for there to be something beyond this! It is true that there is nothing beyond this!".

Ralson fundamentally fails to see that this could be true, while untrue at the same time. That this could be true Absolutely, yet that there could still be something beyond. If I have realized one thing on this path so far is that Impossibility does not mean something is not the case. And furthermore, something not being the case does not mean something not being the case.

 

Ralston is trapped in the expression of the Line. He does not grasp true Paradox.

 

 

Edited by Scholar

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Just now, Javfly33 said:

Isn´t the ego just an idea of you?

I wouldn´t say the ego happens in the brain, thoughts do happen in the brain, which you pay attention to because you are maintaining an identity. But the point is identity is "maintained" with that attitude you are endelessly maintining, is not that there is an identity in the brain somewhere. It´s like you would say there´s a "you" somewhere in the brain. This is exactly what believes mainstream culture xD

Well, ego is more than an idea. It manifests on the level of thoughts, perceptions and feelings. One feels to be apart from everything else, one percieves separate parts, one thinks in terms of oneself as being apart from everything else.

All that stuff is the result of a subject-object split that has happened. This split is and creates self-consciousness. When you look in the eyes of unawakened beings, you can see there seems to be ‘someone’ trapped inside there. That is the illusion that the brain creates. 

A sage has destroyed that illusion, ‘killed himself’, and has returned to the natural state of ‘nobody home’. Simply pure smooth doubtless functioning of the organism.


https://youtu.be/Ts_WDlgNMoo

Die before you die ^

 

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Consciousness isn't prior to anything

Consciousness is eternal. It has no beginning and no end. The brain has a beginning and end. 

The brain appears in consciousness. Consciousness is prior to the brain. If you don’t understand this you don’t understand non-duality.

You simply haven’t realized the ground yet.

But I gtg, cya

Edited by Meta-Man

https://youtu.be/Ts_WDlgNMoo

Die before you die ^

 

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Posted (edited)

26 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Consciousness is eternal. It has no beginning and no end. The brain has a beginning and end. 

The brain appears in consciousness. Consciousness is prior to the brain. If you don’t understand this you don’t understand non-duality.

You simply haven’t realized the ground yet.

But I gtg, cya

This is not true, you are expressing the circle as a line. Notice that you have things prior to other things, you have one thing more fundamental than another. This is a story your mind tells. Any story is linear, and this is nothing but a story you tell yourself.

 

Brain is consciousness. There is no ground. What you talk of is spiritual dogma, it is Non-duality viewed through the lense of physicalism. This is the irony of it. You talk of the circle, but you have not developed the capacity to express and integrate it.

Edited by Scholar

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Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, Scholar said:

This is not true, you are expressing the circle as a line. Notice that you have things prior to other things, you have one thing more fundamental than another. This is a story your mind tells. Any story is linear, and this is nothing but a story you tell yourself.

 

Brain is consciousness. There is no ground.

This is completely wrong. The brain is made of consciousness since everything is consciousness. But consciousness itself is unchanging and constant. The brain is phenomena. Consciousness is not a thing! It is Nothing. You need an awakening to understand.

Edited by Meta-Man

https://youtu.be/Ts_WDlgNMoo

Die before you die ^

 

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7 hours ago, Mafortu said:

To not have done any psychedelics in the last 50 years is... weird, even if you are done seeking. Does he ever watch a movie or read a book? If so, then there is also time for some fun and lighthearted recreational shrooming

You think it's weird that someone else doesn't engage in illegal activities that you enjoy doing? I'm sorry, but that's just stupid.

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Just now, Meta-Man said:

This is completely wrong. The brain is made of consciousness since everything is consciousness. But consciousness itself is unchanging and constant. The brain is phenomena. Consciousness is not phenomena. You need an awakening to understand.

It is very interesting, because what I said does not stay in opposition to what you said here. This is what I mean, there is a fundamental incapacity to see and express the circle.

 

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Just now, Scholar said:

It is very interesting, because what I said does not stay in opposition to what you said here. This is what I mean, there is a fundamental incapacity to see and express the circle.

 

See my edited post. Consciousness is not a thing. It is Nothing. Nothing is nothing, and cannot come and go. It can’t move because it is nothing.


https://youtu.be/Ts_WDlgNMoo

Die before you die ^

 

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Whole thread wouldnt have existed if Leo did what he preach.😂  He couple of times said along the lines of when you reach there, you cannot ask anyone else coz you realize everyone is you and you made them all. Leo stop doubting yourself you made peter. 😉


I will be waiting here, For your silence to break, For your soul to shake,              For your love to wake! Rumi

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Just now, Meta-Man said:

See my edited post. Consciousness is not a thing. It is Nothing. Nothing is nothing, and cannot come and go. It can’t move because it is nothing.

Again, nothing I said is in opposition to this. You cannot understand me because you have not clearly identified the Circle yet. Your mind is a slave to linearity. When I say you have no capacity to understand this, I mean not that it will be difficult to explain it to you, it will be fundamentally impossible. You have to recognize the Circle yourself.

If you do not, you will keep wondering why something in Maya can cause Enlightenment. Why talking 5-MeO-DMT can "reveal" what you call the Ground which causes 5-MeO-DMT. As long as you do not see the Circle, you will ignore this matter.

 

You have reached the end of the Line, but not realized it is merely a point on the circle. You have to clearly see the Circle, travelling forth and back will do nothing for you.

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2 hours ago, Mafortu said:

I will never understand people that say "oh I did shrooms once, I dont see the point of doing them again", really shows how limited their scope is. 

I understand.

However, Ralston did not say that.

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12 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Again, nothing I said is in opposition to this. You cannot understand me because you have not clearly identified the Circle yet. Your mind is a slave to linearity. When I say you have no capacity to understand this, I mean not that it will be difficult to explain it to you, it will be fundamentally impossible. You have to recognize the Circle yourself.

If you do not, you will keep wondering why something in Maya can cause Enlightenment. Why talking 5-MeO-DMT can "reveal" what you call the Ground which causes 5-MeO-DMT. As long as you do not see the Circle, you will ignore this matter.

 

You have reached the end of the Line, but not realized it is merely a point on the circle. You have to clearly see the Circle, travelling forth and back will do nothing for you.

Holy shit is like I´m reading an astrophysic :S

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

You have reached the end of the Line, but not realized it is merely a point on the circle. You have to clearly see the Circle, travelling forth and back will do nothing for you.

Consciousness contains all. It is an infinite container. It is not some point on some line.

Consciousness is constant. It is absolute. There is no back and forth with it. Ni beginning or end. Anything that goes back and forth is only content. This is not some idea I hold. This what IS. Prior to any idea. Prior to mind. Prior to world. Prior to brain. 

The end.

Edited by Meta-Man

https://youtu.be/Ts_WDlgNMoo

Die before you die ^

 

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Meta-Man said:

Eckhart even did LSD, yet said his natural state was far better.

 

The problem I have with that is the "I tried it once and it was cool" mentality. Psychedelics have to be worked with, not tried like candy. When Eckhart tries 50+ breakthrough doses of any psychedelic, and comes and says the same thing, I'll listen. :P

Edited by fridjonk

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@Meta-Man Because he doesn't know if he's fully there unless he tries it. I agree he doesn't have any reason to do so, he's "made it", but you'll never know what you might have missed about reality since it's infinite. I get the sense that these enlightened masters don't actually know the mechanics of god, not that it matters in enlightenment work, but there's a lot to explore, about how reality functions. 

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@fridjonk

How can you be ‘missing anything’? How is that possible? Contemplate that. Whatever is - is what is - is all that is. There cannot be anything missing ever.

Even the feeling ‘something is missing’ is also just appearing in that in which nothing is missing.

5 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

Because he doesn't know if he's fully there unless he tries it.

If he is fully conscious of himself as being the Absolute. Which is the definition if enlightenment, then that’s that. There’s no further. Because the Absolute is Absolute. 


https://youtu.be/Ts_WDlgNMoo

Die before you die ^

 

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@Meta-Man Yes I fully agree. I guess I'm just trying to say "I'm" interested in how reality functions and how god's creation works. How duality works as it does. 

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5 hours ago, Meta-Man said:
5 hours ago, Meta-Man said:

Why would you bother if you are 10/10 content and satisfied with the present moment?

 

 

I guess you can come at this from multiple POV, such as exploring reality and God's creation etc. 

But this has kind of been my argument all along, once you 'get it' why do you need to keep going back for more? 

From an exploration POV I get it, as it's not like an explorer goes on one journey and then says right done that, next thing. 

But, from a 'I need more' standpoint to me, that is still someone who is seeking and has not found so to speak. 

So, I guess like most things it boils down to the motivation behind it. 

For exploration of Infinity, I now understand and admit my bias against this beforehand, but I also think if unchecked it can cause endless seeking. 

But, I have never tried 5MEO so how would I know for sure? I just don't feel any need to. 


'One is always in the absolute state, knowingly or unknowingly for that is all there is.' Francis Lucille. 

'Peace and Happiness are inherent in Consciousness.' Rupert Spira 

“Your own Self-Realization is the greatest service you can render the world.” Ramana Maharshi

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Posted (edited)

@LfcCharlie4

At that point you are just exploring the relative, not the absolute. Just like an astrophysicist. Nothing wrong with it. But it has nothing to do with awakening.

Edited by Meta-Man

https://youtu.be/Ts_WDlgNMoo

Die before you die ^

 

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