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People who have experienced ego death - why do you keep your money?

97 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@VeganAwake It's a miracle I'm agreeing with you! :x

However, if someone feels called to humanitarian work, I feel 10000% go for it, but to force it to be 'spiritual' like you said doesn't resonate well with me. Everyone's path is different and everyone expresses love, truth and beauty in their own way :) 

What needs to be explored here is, what would be calling someone into action to humanitarian work.

God or the one self(as you describe it) doesn't require anything to be done. 

The Earth isn't sending Vibes to the human calling it into action to come save it.

This feeling of lack that something needs to be done, and I'm just the one to do it.....This is the EGO Construct... although maybe now in disguise as the spiritual ego... or the do-gooder ego...  it's still the ego.

I know you've said in the past that everything is not the ego... but before the ego falls away, that's exactly what's taking place.

You're being controlled and manipulated by the egoic self agenda doing anything(good or bad) to perpetuate its illusory existence (seeking or running on the hamster wheel as I like to call it).

Liberation is a falling away of this entire illusory egoic construct running the show in disguise as the you. 

Remember the ego doesn't like this message, it doesn't want to hear this message, it will do whatever its can to make sure this message isn't heard because it wants to survive... whether it's positive or negative for the organism.

" The biggest obstacle to Discovery is not ignorance it's the illusion of knowledge"

Simply put if you think you already have the answer you won't be willing to accept the truth of this message.

 

 

 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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28 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

@VeganAwake Is there such thing as organism? 

Love=Selfless

If it isn't there would be no one to help you wake up. 

You are THIS. 

You are ❤️.

 

              

Yes unconditional love... agreed ?


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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13 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

@VeganAwake Ok I like to play. 

But what makes you sure you are right? 

Zero - I thought you were off enjoying Monkhood? :)?  glad to see you, don't get me wrong...


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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@Inliytened1 Got bored pretty quickly. ?

To miss having zen stick oh man it's my greatest dirty pleasure. 

Ok ok eating blondine inside out is. (Radical honesty 1/1) 

Not so spiritual am I? 

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3 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

@Inliytened1 Got bored pretty quickly. ?

To miss having zen stick oh man it's my greatest dirty pleasure. 

Ok ok eating blondine inside out is. (Radical honesty 1/1) 

Not so spiritual am I? 

You're egoless in my book :) i just figured they had WiFi at the monastery. ??


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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22 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

@VeganAwake Ok I like to play. 

But what makes you sure you are right? 

Hey Brother welcome back...

I don't think I'm sure or right about anything...

It was just an apparent response.


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You're egoless in my book :) i just figured they had WiFi at the monastery. ??

It's my own monastery can't subscribe to any religion. Some deep Healing was kinda needed. Felt it so done it.Much better then filling mind with philosophical stuff and go to actual No Thingy. 

No thingy knows everything ?❤️

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2 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

This feeling of lack that something needs to be done, and I'm just the one to do it.....This is the EGO Construct... although maybe now in disguise as the spiritual ego... or the do-gooder ego...  it's still the ego.

1. humanitarian work doesn't require a feeling of lack. You are right, as long as there is an ego, lack is perceived and needed in order to 'improve' something. Once it is gone, there is no 'lack' anywhere and nothing needs 'improving'. But I would argue that humanitarian actions would still be taken.

2.Where is the difference between running around and 'improving' something or meditating at home, thinking nothing needs to be done. In both instances a conscious or unconscious decision was made to do that particular thing rather than something else. How is this decision done? As I pointed out earlier decisions would have to be 100% random. Unless you artifically - consciously or unconsciously - create some guiding principles. These can be anywhere between service to self to service to Self oriented. The Self doesn't need 'service', yes, but neither does the self need 'service'. So we are back to decisions being random unless guiding principles are created. What I am argueing is, that if your life seems to naturally unfold because there is no seeming interference by a controlling ego mind, then I say, a guiding principle was unconsciously created in order to allow that particular reality.

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@VeganAwake I get you, but how would relatively speaking, anything ever progress with this mindset?

Everything is perfect, and nothing needs to be done, yes! 

But does that mean we should just let wars carry on, people starve and people live in poverty etc? 

Sorry, but I will never be on board with using The Absolute as a form of Spiritual Bypassing. 

From The Absolute perspective I 100% agree with you- Everything is perfect as it is! 

But, then let's say you're homeless, would you just never fix it? 

If you're overweight would you not go and lose weight? 

Do you see my point, I'm speaking from a 'Relative' perspective. 

And, I wasn't talking about coming from a place of lack or Ego, more Post-Awakening once one is at peace, happy and fulfilled and then felt as if they wanted to devote their life or participate in humanitarian work, maybe that's their LP, my points before were we're FREE to do as we choose post-awakening, I think we're on similar lines, in terms of not needing to do anything at all to be Fulfilled, but if someone chooses to, I'm sorry I don't agree that's coming from lack. 

I think motivation/ Desire can come from different places, and it may simply come from a place of love to want to help people, and not from a place of Ego. But, of course, at the same time, it could come from a place of Spiritual Ego, it completely depends!

Another example closer to your heart might be Spiritual Teachers, truly awakened ones aren't doing it from a place of Ego and wanting to save people or redeem them, but from a place of love and wanting to help people awaken. 

Is Tony Parsons acting from a place of Ego? Was Ramana Maharshi etc? 

I'll be honest, you'll say this is just ego, but I often feel you sometimes come from a place of Spiritual Bypassing, and use awakening as an excuse not to act in certain areas of life as it's 'Ego.' Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm open to being wrong, but that's just the vibe I get, and it's the same vibe I get from Neo-Advaitans as well. 

Everything is perfect as it is, and THIS as it is is completely perfect as it is, where only The Absolute exists. 

But, on a relative level, if people are starving, wars are going on, Corona Viruses are spreading (!) then action needs to be taken. 

Or, on a personal level you lose your job, or you are overweight and have health issues, then that is what is happening NOW in THIS and you aren't going to just leave it are you? 

This short passage slightly explains what I mean-

'As October's tune-up, I have decided to write about the joy of Presence and being Present. Seekers and even awakened persons have the belief from somewhere that you have to become present in order to experience Presence. In fact, the opposite is true! We ARE Presence.

The more we recognize this Presence that we are, the more Present we become. This process can be effortless even exhilarating. What you see is that the effort of “trying to become present” masks the obvious – we are Presence now!

We are fully experiencing our Feeling of Being here and now. Without the pure Sense of Existing, nothing else is possible! Life begins with Presence. No need to look for it. You cannot avoid it!

Now, let’s ask why it matters? Why does being Present in the Now matters?

First of all, this knowingness automatically brings us into our bodies and into our immediate experience. However, for many people, the “real now right now” in their life is unpleasant. Then the need for habitual mental escape surfaces. Anything that looks remotely painful or unpleasant or ugly gets rejected without a second look.

However, as we emphasize over and over, YOU CANNOT GO ANYWHERE! So when you deny and attempt to escape your “Real Now Here” you end up in a phony “nowhere land.” In fact, you have not escaped at all. Instead, you have become, in the immortal words of Pink Floyd, “comfortably numb.”

You cannot attempt to escape life as it is moment after moment day after day and then expect to feel fully and wonderfully alive. This is called “spiritual bypassing.” It simply does not work!

The sooner you lovingly approve, accept and embrace your arisings just as they are in this moment, the sooner you will in actuality transcend them truly and completely. THE WAY IS THROUGH! Move towards what you are afraid of. You will discover it is just a shadow!

This being Present as Presence – fully approving of what is as it is now – is the key to unlocking and allowing the all-important shift from the small struggling “I am little separate me” into the vast, vibrant and increasingly awake sense of who we really ARE! Presence is that which is 100% okay with THIS!

Listen now as I repeat our message. It is that important! What are we saying? We are saying that you WILL have to move towards, into and through WHATEVER experience life is presenting you right now in this moment and in your life as a whole. This is regardless of the positive, negative or neutral meaning that you may be giving it. In fact, the meaning that you are giving your experience IS the value that you are going to get from it. YOU create the meaning of your experiences!

When you gently remind yourself to simply BE with whatever comes up, when you allow simple awareness of the emotional state you are in, Presence will become obvious! Am I happy? Am I sad? Do I know what I feel?


Most do not know what their existential now feeling IS! Our conditioning has created an internal false judgment system which assumes that our now experience is NOT okay. It is flawed or broken or not good enough. What is now is not okay. Therefore, just being with WHAT IS now is not okay either!

When we let this BS go, when we are finally able to allow, approve, embrace and just be with it... whatever it is... this is when the shift may occur! We will naturally become aware of our vastness. This leads to the natural interconnected knowing of the great love that we are too.

Love, Interconnectedness, Presence then become more that mere words! The sweetness of the moment AS IT IS can now surface effortlessly! It creates the knowingness of that inner freedom to arise within us. At first one may get glimpses. The more this is practiced, the more it opens up to us.

This is why I work so hard on the actual existential daily activity in my students lives. I want to draw attention to what IS going on vs. the various meaningless concepts we accumulate. This is why I often bring the focus to your character and your tendencies and your Enneagram type. My goal is to make sure that nothing is swept under the carpet. To make sure that all will be exposed. Nothing will remain hidden. This is the way to elevate, release, and embrace your super-intelligent exquisite Big Self in an authentic deeply integrated and very real life positive spiritual awakening!'

 


'One is always in the absolute state, knowingly or unknowingly for that is all there is.' Francis Lucille. 

'Peace and Happiness are inherent in Consciousness.' Rupert Spira 

“Your own Self-Realization is the greatest service you can render the world.” Ramana Maharshi

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There is no relative and absolute that's dualistic perception. There is only THIS or Being. 

If one needs a car to drive to work to make money to survive and pay rent.. that's what's happening. Basic survival. It's all THIS (not relative and absolute) it's just what's happening.

As I've mentioned before, there isn't anything inherently wrong with doing anything or not doing anything...

If a desired action is ego-driven, there's usually an accompanying feeling of guilt, lack or diminishment if the action isn't carried out or completed according to the ego's standards.

The Seeker always feels like there's something that needs to be done because the Seeker itself is Separation and lack. 

The Seeker does actually want to feel complete, but it also subconsciously knows that finding completion will be its demise.

This Seeking energy knows that if there's nothing to seek it will be out of a job and it will have to fall way.

This message feels foreign to you because you're simply not liberated bud I've been trying to explain this to you.

You may have had a glimpse, mystical experience or partial awakening and shaken the ego a bit but the ego can reconstruct itself quickly... it will see it's being attacked... send in the reinforcements and come back as a strong spiritual ego... the new higher self or true self most call it... this new found spiritual ego is a real tough one to tackle because it thinks it's God or something lol... it magically knows what needs to be done because it's now super spiritual.

You are an intelligent dude that is very good with your words and have done your homework I can tell... unfortunately knowing the material intellectually isn't what Awakening or Liberation actually is...

True Liberation is an energetic shift and the complete Falling Away of the separate self or egoic structure, leaving only BEING or THIS.

The egoic self agenda is completely seen for what it is and dropped.

Feelings like there's something 'I' need to do to make the world a better place or 'I' need to find my life purpose are eliminated because there is no longer an 'I' or egoic self agenda driving the train sort of speak. The Hampster wheel has been stepped off of.

As I said before this egoic drive is easy to spot because I used to be one. 

Ps the term spiritual bypassing is rendered irrelevant when it's recognized there is no meaning purpose or value to anything and nothing matters.

I love you bud sure we will be talking soon enough haha ❤

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by VeganAwake

“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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Don't listen to @VeganAwake. Life purpose is awesome and helping people is great. 

You preach against the spiritual ego, yet you have the biggest one on the forum lmao.

Edited by Raptorsin7

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@VeganAwake I’m just gonna leave it here, people evolve at their own rate, and I Cba to have an “I’m more awake than you debate” or “prove” that I’m liberated or whatever, All that matters to me is the realization of the self has occurred and an absolute sense of peace and happiness is always here, I’m happy and if I’m not enlightened by Neo-Advaita standards I can live with that. 
 

I was just trying to point out the dangerous spiritual bypassing you are promoting, as if I was a confused seeker, that would not help me at all, it’s a common trap.

Id also be very careful when relatively speaking about Life Purpose and saying it’s pointless when the owner of this forum sells a course around LP lol. He also covers now purpose is actually meaningless and what this actually means, and it doesn’t render it useless at all. It instead gives you complete freedom. Maybe Leo can articulate it better than I can! 
 

the fact that you say the term spiritual bypassing is irrelevant says it all really, I think I’ll leave it there. 
 

And of course man, I wish nothing but peace and love your way :) 


'One is always in the absolute state, knowingly or unknowingly for that is all there is.' Francis Lucille. 

'Peace and Happiness are inherent in Consciousness.' Rupert Spira 

“Your own Self-Realization is the greatest service you can render the world.” Ramana Maharshi

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10 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Don't listen to @VeganAwake. Life purpose is awesome and helping people is great. 

You preach against the spiritual ego, yet you have the biggest one on the forum lmao.

You should change your forum name to Instigator7 lol...

Life purpose is to live..

I never mentioned once about not helping people... it's just whether it's egoically driven or not.

I value truth over being liked on the Forum...

 

 

 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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3 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@VeganAwake I’m just gonna leave it here, people evolve at their own rate, and I Cba to have an “I’m more awake than you debate” or “prove” that I’m liberated or whatever, All that matters to me is the realization of the self has occurred and an absolute sense of peace and happiness is always here, I’m happy and if I’m not enlightened by Neo-Advaita standards I can live with that. 
 

I was just trying to point out the dangerous spiritual bypassing you are promoting, as if I was a confused seeker, that would not help me at all, it’s a common trap.

Id also be very careful when relatively speaking about Life Purpose and saying it’s pointless when the owner of this forum sells a course around LP lol. He also covers now purpose is actually meaningless and what this actually means, and it doesn’t render it useless at all. It instead gives you complete freedom. Maybe Leo can articulate it better than I can! 
 

the fact that you say the term spiritual bypassing is irrelevant says it all really, I think I’ll leave it there. 
 

And of course man, I wish nothing but peace and love your way :) 

I love you as well brother take care and talk with you soon ❤


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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2 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

1. humanitarian work doesn't require a feeling of lack. You are right, as long as there is an ego, lack is perceived and needed in order to 'improve' something. Once it is gone, there is no 'lack' anywhere and nothing needs 'improving'. But I would argue that humanitarian actions would still be taken.

2.Where is the difference between running around and 'improving' something or meditating at home, thinking nothing needs to be done. In both instances a conscious or unconscious decision was made to do that particular thing rather than something else. How is this decision done? As I pointed out earlier decisions would have to be 100% random. Unless you artifically - consciously or unconsciously - create some guiding principles. These can be anywhere between service to self to service to Self oriented. The Self doesn't need 'service', yes, but neither does the self need 'service'. So we are back to decisions being random unless guiding principles are created. What I am argueing is, that if your life seems to naturally unfold because there is no seeming interference by a controlling ego mind, then I say, a guiding principle was unconsciously created in order to allow that particular reality.

Yeah this is a pretty interesting topic.

Some believe free will and choice is an illusion. They're saying the conditioned human body/mind makes a decision and then the separate self claims that it was the one that made the decision.

It's also recognized upon awakening that this separate self is also an illusion. So essentially they're saying everything; feelings thoughts ideas perceptions beliefs arise out of nothing and fall back into nothing... with no real meaning purpose or value for anything.

The infinite communicating to the infinite.

 

 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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@Aaron p I think so ?


'One is always in the absolute state, knowingly or unknowingly for that is all there is.' Francis Lucille. 

'Peace and Happiness are inherent in Consciousness.' Rupert Spira 

“Your own Self-Realization is the greatest service you can render the world.” Ramana Maharshi

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@VeganAwake

The question is: How is a decision made?

I see 3 possibilities:

  1.  Influencing factors. There are many influencing factors (like: thoughts, emotions, sensations, habits, nemories..) which determine the outcome of a decision. The body is like a calculator and these factors like numbers. 5+7-2=10 ,no matter what. This seems to indicate that everything is predetermined.
  2.  Influencing factors + randomness. That means nothing is predetermined. So there are these influencing factors, but there is some randomness which determines which influencing factors are dominant, so it determines the weight of every possible influencing factor (including 0). For example, it might be regarded random whether it rains or not, and that will determine the value of influencing factors like emotions, thoughts,..
  3.  The body has free will. So there are the influencing factors + randomness, but in the end the body decides how much value/weight to give to each influencing factor, and thus can decide the outcome.

I assumed without investigating that the body has free will. I thought, as there is no ego then the body must have free will. But how can the body have free will? What exactly would have free will? I feel like this free-will thing is only possible with some seperate entity having it, which obviously doesn't exist. Therefore I think that the 2. possibility (influencing factors + randomness) is most likely how it works. Or as close as I get to with my current understanding.

 

That would mean that I was wrong with my "the body can decide what to do and behaving altruistically would be the only logical result of awakening, otherwise it is not embodied"

Though, I have one last idea that would support that line of thinking:

Let's say a body/mind has to decide whether to buy another car for itself or buy a car for a poor friend. Now, let's boil all influencing factors down to "survival factors" which include all factors which want that car for that body and "selfless factors" which include all factors that want the car for the poor friend. The weight of all these influencing factors is determined by randomness and other influencing factors. So for example, after taking shrooms (which is a result of influencing factors and randomness) the value/weight of the survival factors is likely to have decreased and the value/weight of the selfless factors is likely to have increased, even if only slightly. That would mean that it is only a matter of how deep you go with your awakening till the selfless factors eventually outweigh the survival factors and you buy that car for the poor friend. 

If that is the case, then it would make sense that generally speaking, the deeper your awakening = the deeper your embodiment = the more altruistic you become. Wouldn't it?

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@GreenWoods To me it just seems like you're trying to make some sort of equation or science out of behavior post-awakening which I don't think is really possible. 

Can I ask; have you had an awakening? And do you 'live in Non-Duality'? Basically, that's a fancy way of saying are you stabilized in absolute Peace and Happiness and have you recognized the truth of your being. 

When you truly awaken to love and realize The Absolute/Self is all that exists, and you abide and live the understanding, yes you will of course act from a place of love and truth. This is why I don't believe people like Mooji/ Betinho have had full awakenings, how could you manipulate and abuse Women sexually if you know you're only abusing yourself. I also see your point about Veganism, but I'm not sure many Non-Dual teachers have actually investigated this deeply, so could genuinely be ignorant about it. 

The Separate Entity doesn't exist so it's not a matter of whether free will exists, the question doesn't need to be asked. From the point of view of a separate self it SEEMS we have Free-Will, so if you add a belief, 'There's no Free-Will' that's just another belief, not the truth based on an investigation into your own being. You could say all is God's will or The Absolutes will. People often wonder well how do I take action if there is no Free-Will or No Entity, well you now actually have The Universe/Absolute as the power behind your actions, not merely a separate self that didn't ever exist to begin with. 

If by Altruistic, you mean the more loving you become in general then yes. But, love isn't simply just donating all your money and feeding the poor, it can be, but doesn't HAVE to be. Holding the door open for someone is love, treating all others as if they are your very self is love, even these simple acts are acts of love, it doesn't have to be grand gestures and huge donations. I really wish I could link you a Satsang but it's paid content and I'm not allowed, I might PM you the link and it's down to you if you wanna purchase it. 

Love has no end to how deep it can go, God=Love=Consciousness, love is literally reality. Teachers who haven't had an awakening into love haven't gone deep enough.

However, awakening doesn't mean you have to live a life of poverty or donate all of your money, as I have said you can be awakened and manifest your dream 'life' simultaneously, and act more loving. You don't have to choose Wealth (or any other form of 'Worldly Success') or Awakening, @Nahm has a thread on this I believe. 

My best piece of advice would be stop creating beliefs and idealizations of how Awakened beings have to act and behave, have true, deep awakenings, Realize the nature of your being and the nature of reality, Abide as that understanding and then find out yourself. 

Also remember, this understanding is expressed uniquely in each being, as each body/mind is unique, while we are simultaneously all one. Another fun paradox. I posted this on another thread, and it may help :) 

 


'One is always in the absolute state, knowingly or unknowingly for that is all there is.' Francis Lucille. 

'Peace and Happiness are inherent in Consciousness.' Rupert Spira 

“Your own Self-Realization is the greatest service you can render the world.” Ramana Maharshi

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