Nivsch

How can I become more multi-perspectival

59 posts in this topic

when I know that some perspectives are obviousely come from lower consciouseness positions. For example - conservatism, racism, anti LGBTQ rights or In his family, boycotting someone, overchasing money, overmaterialism, thinking that animals are less valued than human etc.

If I know that Green point of view are (not without limitations but) more superior to materialists or consevative point of view.

How can I ever be "multiperspectival" and objectively examine every pov. When I know it feels fake and I cannot really do this, cause I know that materialism and conservativism povs are just lower in consiouseness and less right.

Yes, we still need more basics povs to make balanced and healthy life (transcend but include), but still, I really can't see how the almost-hegemonic superiority of green can be broken.

The only place I really see the urge nessesity of tier2 thinking is in the individualist plane - self actualization, independent thinking, developing consiouseness of your root issues undelines your anxiety and depression.

But in the collective plane i cant be symmetric in the way I examine every perspective. I feel i just know who is more right in political debates. 

One of the examples in stage yellow video was "yellow person examine both anti and fore slavery before he decide" come on! are we cheating ourselves? Its obvious that anti slavery. There is no REALLY probability to answer differently. LGBTQ full rights obviousely is the right thing. Animal abuse against no animal abuse... of course no animal abuse. 

"OK but we need to think systemically and not do things to bring ourselves 'conservativism backlush'". Not true in my opinion. If we want green population become yellow we need to just let them do their green things to the edge. Anyway only then they will learn the lessons authentically.

therfore to summarize: In the individual plane - tier2 is nessesary. but in the collevtive plane - Just be green and balance it a little bit with the whole system during the time. what higher places we can really get in the collective domain?

Edited by Nivsch

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Because you should know that any perspective how ridiculous it is it has truth in it and point is to combine as many perspectives to make a big picture...most uneducated people speak truth but its low value or it could be a big value to incomporate into your big picture understanding of a thing...every perspetctive=half truth

More half truth=better big picture understanding...

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thank you for asking these questions, they make me aware of one of the traps - i fall into the green trap quite often recently and realize how i don’t invest enough time into really transforming my everyday life more into green, instead of feeling the bitterness and sadness and sometimes hopelessness that can overcome people in green. somehow green remains like an open wound and i feel i also want to tab more into green in the future with certain aspects of my life - for example green means for me also to be more informed about certain aspects and disbalances in life and a critical attempt on how to solve these problems in a more attentive way to my surrounding.
at the moment i‘m going through some painful green emotions, so that’s probably where i am at mostly, even though i sometimes still am in orange and in some aspects already work on yellow.
the moment (well my interpretation. might be not the case) when you start leaving green into yellow is the moment where you realize you can’t change a lot by just holding this perspective and understanding it and seeing that’s how it would be if it was fair, if all people would think green.
either you then start to become active in green as activist or you start to become someone active in yellow because you want to change the world with the abilities you already have, from the point in life you are at, without having to distance yourself from society too far, yellow is usually a constructive colour in my perception. yellow is understanding that green tries to fix too many problems always in the same way, oftentimes almost lost causes and understands that yellow is already part of green - it’s not greens perspective that makes you move on, but the methods to handle green problems. part of that is to understand more and more where others perspectives come from and how to influence people into changing perspectives or just letting them be and accept them. for me that is more easy when a person is in front of me than in a forum for example, or when i read about people in a newspaper. that is because i usually then have much more information about them, their life story their background their status, how open or closed up people are. although in some situations i only wear green glasses because i can not otherwise, maybe yet.
maybe it’s because there are so many red to blue incidents around at the moment.
that was quite relieving...thank you!

Edited by remember

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3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

How can I ever be "multiperspectival" and objectively examine every pov. 

Transcend the desire to objectively analyze different POVs. Objective analysis is stage Orange. Yellow is about integrative, systemic, relativistic modes of being. For example, Yellow can comfortably hold two opposing POVs without grasping. Yellow understands paradox and is fluid.

Perhaps read more about what Yellow is like. My favorite book in this are is "How to think like Leonardo Da Vinci". Imo, Da Vinci is a great example of Yellow. 

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On 4.11.2019 at 7:41 PM, NoSelfSelf said:

Because you should know that any perspective how ridiculous it is it has truth in it and point is to combine as many perspectives to make a big picture...most uneducated people speak truth but its low value or it could be a big value to incomporate into your big picture understanding of a thing...every perspetctive=half truth

More half truth=better big picture understanding...

Do you have example of what we can do better in political?

Because a left-centrists party already exists and it already includs moderate left thinking but with security emphasizes etc.

 

Edited by Nivsch

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@remember I think that the Yellow activism is very paradoxical because if you do social yellow stuff, you actually supresses green activists from becoming yellow in the future because you are not letting them to actually examine their green ideas to the edge and therefore they won't be able to learn from that.

If I'm yellow, I Iet green activists to do exactly what they want to do.

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@remember Can you tell why my post  brought you a relief?

Nice to hear that :) I read all you wrote but it hard to me right now to understand what you meant and how you see the things.

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On 4.11.2019 at 10:59 PM, Serotoninluv said:

Transcend the desire to objectively analyze different POVs. Objective analysis is stage Orange. Yellow is about integrative, systemic, relativistic modes of being. For example, Yellow can comfortably hold two opposing POVs without grasping. Yellow understands paradox and is fluid.

Perhaps read more about what Yellow is like. My favorite book in this are is "How to think like Leonardo Da Vinci". Imo, Da Vinci is a great example of Yellow. 

This week I bought the two System Thinking books Leo recommended + a third book of system thinking that had good comments in Amazone (76% gave five stars). I heard twice the colors videos of Leo and read about them from multiple of sites. The book "how to think like Da Vinci" changed your view and behaviour in life significantly?

Edited by Nivsch

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29 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@remember Can you tell why my post  brought you a relief?

Nice to hear that :) I read all you wrote but it hard to me right now to understand what you meant and how you see the things.

because i realized that if a person moves higher than green some perspectives will always remain there because green points out what no one will look at, the dirt under the rug the neglected spaces and humanitarian deserts. in yellow it`s probably better to see them like leucocytes in an immune system.

sorry my post was partially a self talk about what was going on with the colours within me and how these colours fight for their survival in me more than about how they could be handled in reality. so it`s a little wild maybe o.O  writing that down reflecting on what you said helped me with getting over my saddest feelings because i realized that i`m not the only one seeing this phenomenon or function green plays in our immune system.

Edited by remember

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I'm also learning to become multi-perspectival. The best thing I've found to integrate the biggest picture possible is to always look in terms of health and beauty, because the health and beauty parameters are above all other parameters. They always count for the whole of the design. Or, at least that's how I see it.

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I watched a lot of documentary and talked to a bunch of différent people.

I m a scientific of life and human 'basicly' still improving my relative map.

Even try to understand people that are against your view.

Imagine fully being them from early birth to his exclusive expérience.

Edited by Aeris

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On 04/11/2019 at 4:58 PM, Nivsch said:

when I know that some perspectives are obviousely come from lower consciouseness positions. For example - conservatism, racism, anti LGBTQ rights or In his family, boycotting someone, overchasing money, overmaterialism, thinking that animals are less valued than human etc.

If I know that Green point of view are (not without limitations but) more superior to materialists or consevative point of view.

How can I ever be "multiperspectival" and objectively examine every pov. When I know it feels fake and I cannot really do this, cause I know that materialism and conservativism povs are just lower in consiouseness and less right.

Yes, we still need more basics povs to make balanced and healthy life (transcend but include), but still, I really can't see how the almost-hegemonic superiority of green can be broken.

The only place I really see the urge nessesity of tier2 thinking is in the individualist plane - self actualization, independent thinking, developing consiouseness of your root issues undelines your anxiety and depression.

But in the collective plane i cant be symmetric in the way I examine every perspective. I feel i just know who is more right in political debates. 

One of the examples in stage yellow video was "yellow person examine both anti and fore slavery before he decide" come on! are we cheating ourselves? Its obvious that anti slavery. There is no REALLY probability to answer differently. LGBTQ full rights obviousely is the right thing. Animal abuse against no animal abuse... of course no animal abuse. 

"OK but we need to think systemically and not do things to bring ourselves 'conservativism backlush'". Not true in my opinion. If we want green population become yellow we need to just let them do their green things to the edge. Anyway only then they will learn the lessons authentically.

therfore to summarize: In the individual plane - tier2 is nessesary. but in the collevtive plane - Just be green and balance it a little bit with the whole system during the time. what higher places we can really get in the collective domain?

Stop thinking about it. When you stop trying to live from the intellect you will see how all of these perspectives are right and that you can access them all fairly easily in the present moment when you need to.

At the moment you're just fixated on an ideology of trying to be super developed, which is a false position (as it's causing you obvious problems in relating to others)

You're already whole. 

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28 minutes ago, Nickyy said:

Stop thinking about it. When you stop trying to live from the intellect you will see how all of these perspectives are right and that you can access them all fairly easily in the present moment when you need to.

At the moment you're just fixated on an ideology of trying to be super developed, which is a false position (as it's causing you obvious problems in relating to others)

You're already whole. 

I did. I lived from spontaneosely, not intelected, very clear political position for couple of years (equality, gay rights, anti orthodox, sensitivity to the weak, animal liberation etc) with arguing with people and all that before i knew about SD and this forum. But thats hasn't made me agree with the conservative/over-capitalist ideas at all. I was very strongly in the green pov and I think it just much more developed than the other views. Therefore i cannot see myself really agree and "integrate" the other opinions because it is not symmetric! Yes we have to balance this with other povs and life condition but its not symmetric at all.

Maybe the political issue itself it very limited and perspectives are much more wide thing. But in the political-social domain its clear to me who is much more right and who is much more wrong. Quite clear.

 

Edited by Nivsch

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5 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I did. I lived from spontaneosely, not intelected, very clear political position for couple of years (equality, gay rights, anti orthodox, sensitivity to the weak, animal liberation etc) with arguing with people and all that before i knew about SD and this forum. But thats hasn't made me agree with the conservative/over-capitalist ideas at all. I was very strongly in the green pov and I think it just much more developed than the other views. Therefore i cannot see myself really agree and "integrate" the other opinions because it is not symmetric! Yes we have to balance this with other povs and life condition but its not symmetric at all.

 

Sounds like you were identified with green? That's not really living in the present moment, it's identification with thought. 

No? 

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9 minutes ago, Nickyy said:

Sounds like you were identified with green? That's not really living in the present moment, it's identification with thought. 

No? 

In the individual domain i think that tier2 approach is critical to solve personal problems like emotional, and quality of life as a whole.

But in the political and social domain I see green as the hegemonic as the truth holder. Like it has 70-80%.

And 20-30% to all the rest povs altogether (orange and below).

 

Edited by Nivsch

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Just now, Nivsch said:

In the individual domain i think that tier2 approach is critical to solve personal problems like emotional, and quality of life as a whole.

But in the political and social domain I see green as the hegemonic as the truth holder. Like it has 70-80%.

And 20-30% to all the rest.

 

Green hasn't got a clue. It forces people to be who they are not. Forces cultures to intermingle when the reality is most people are not able to exist in these ways. Most people aren't developed. That's why 2nd tier takes others where they are at, takes these perspectives as they are, because these are crucial stepping stones in development. You can't just force green onto every colour on the spiral. 

I could talk about this for hours, but I think you get the basic gist of it 

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@Nickyy yes but about the TRUTH itself, (politically and socialy speaking) green is far above the others.

I agree the forcing and pushing is wrong in most cases, but in the other hand if we won't push the orthodox sector to accept gays more (campaigns, social pressure...) many ultra orthodox children will suffer because of boycotting by their family. For example.

Edited by Nivsch

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16 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Nickyy yes but about the TRUTH itself, (politically and socialy speaking) green is far above the others.

I agree the forcing and pushing is wrong in most cases, but in the other hand if we won't push the orthodox sector to accept gays more (campaigns, social pressure...) many ultra orthodox children will suffer because of boycotting by their family. For example.

Like I say, we can go on for hours and hours. But really what we're doing by engaging abstract concepts is were moving away from being. Being is where yellow reveals itself. Act from that place rather than attempting to sort the world's problems out, at least get intimate with how all of these parts make up the whole and are inter dependent. 

 

 

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@Nivsch I think one of the weaknesses of green is it's conditioned to root out inequality and attempt to level the playing field.

It's just a programme . It's not really conscious, no matter how it thinks it's so much more developed, it's just another ideology. 

If you can just let everything be as it is, you will find that everyone is playing their part in ways you maybe you cannot appreciate when you got your green goggles on 

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@Nivsch Another thing I noticed with green, and this is a major flaw, is that it doesn't see its own hypocrisy. Greens ideology is that every perspective is equal because it is relative. But by forcing relativity onto people who aren't relativistic it is basically the biggest bully on the spiral and the biggest hypocrite because it believes relativity is the absolute.

Green says that no perspective is more valid than another and you should fall in line with this because it's the most valid perspective.

You could say that green isn't really green at all, its RED.

 

 

Edited by Nickyy

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